vs. 991S/ Cayman GTS

Echo M3 · 03-23-2014, 10:53 AM

So, I'm considering selling my M3 and going for the new Cayman GTS.

I test drove both the 991 S and the Cayman S this weekend. My impression was that the Cayman S "felt" more like a sports car - the engine is loud, the car feels like it wraps around you, the manual transmission is beautiful and precise, and the chassis is sublime. The one downside is that it doesn't feel much quicker than my M3, at least in a straight line. The 991 S looks even better, and pulls incredibly hard over 5k rpm - much more so than my E90 M3, in fact. However, $110k+ is hard to justify, given that it takes me quite close to the base price for a GT3. I also didn't like that it's noticeably quieter until you get over 4k rpm; given that this is going to be a weekend/track car for me, noise dampening is something I do NOT want. Practicality matters not for me.

For the $80-100k price range, I am faced with either a lightly used 991S, or a new Cayman GTS. And frankly, I'm completely torn. I like the idea of taking delivery of a new car (the GTS looks stunning), but I wonder if I will regret the "horsepower downgrade".

Any thoughts or suggestions? Anyone else face a similar dilemma?

Cheers

quiksi · 03-23-2014, 11:13 AM

the cayman does weigh substantially less than the M3, so the power deficit probably isn't that noticeable

it also makes you feel like a superhero driving it

Wolfinwolfsclothing · 03-23-2014, 11:17 AM

Well, the m3 is a ~112 mph trap car and the 991S traps 116/117, so yea the M3 isn't even in the same ballpark. The new M3 will be lucky to be trapping those speeds. So yes the 991S is significantly faster. Even the 997.2 S with PDK pulls like a freight train on a modded M3 dct with tune and exhaust…
Both the 991 and Cayman are also significantly lighter than the M3 which add to how much faster the 991 is and how the cayman is right there with it.
Track times, the 997 is faster and the 991S obliterates it. 991S did 7:37 on the ring where no BMW has ever ran a time that fast. The M3 GTS ran 7:48 and the e92 m3 8:05, so again not the sam realm.
A cayman/boxster S arent much slower than our m3s despite the nearly 100 hp less they have.
I think you'll be happy with either, but as of right now I don't think anything can top the 991 platform short of a super/hyper car and even then.

ki__ · 03-23-2014, 12:45 PM

I'm on a similar boat. Considering these two cars as well as another M3. Very interested to see which car you choose.

Black Gold · 03-23-2014, 01:41 PM

ive driven both of those cars and liked the 991s A LOT more. to me, it was much quicker, had a ton of grip, handled and steered great, and looked amazing.

if I got a cayman I would always wish I had a 991, but jmo

you drove both, and if the cayman does it for you more than the 991, go for it.

me, 991 or nothing

hova00 · 03-23-2014, 02:48 PM

I came from an e92 M3 and have a 991S now and don't regret the change at all. My 991S has ran 11.7@119.5 stock which iam happy with since the car is N/A 3.8l flat six.

My M3 with a full catlesss setup was trapping 116-117mph for comaparion. Since I have taken both of them to the road course also the 991S beats the M3 hands down. Really there is no comparison there. The M3's brakes were gone after a couple hard laps at NJMP-Thunderbolt where the 991S was strong all day lap after lap.

If it were me I couldn't get the Cayman because it just isn't quick enough for the money but a 991S is the ticket. The looks along with the sound are amazing and it seems as if everyone loves a 911 when driving it.

BTW, if your interested my 2013 991S may be for sale.

Iam itching for a new car again.

Wolfinwolfsclothing · 03-23-2014, 04:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hova00

I came from an e92 M3 and have a 991S now and don't regret the change at all. My 991S has ran 11.7@119.5 stock which iam happy with since the car is N/A 3.8l flat six.

My M3 with a full catlesss setup was trapping 116-117mph for comaparion. Since I have taken both of them to the road course also the 991S beats the M3 hands down. Really there is no comparison there. The M3's brakes were gone after a couple hard laps at NJMP-Thunderbolt where the 991S was strong all day lap after lap.

If it were me I couldn't get the Cayman because it just isn't quick enough for the money but a 991S is the ticket. The looks along with the sound are amazing and it seems as if everyone loves a 911 when driving it.

BTW, if your interested my 2013 991S may be for sale.

Iam itching for a new car again.

+1.

A 991S is a good 6-8 mph faster in the 1/4 and very much so from any speed and gear. The same on the track, not even close...

M3Captain · 03-23-2014, 05:32 PM

I haven't driven the cayman, but I would definitely say get a 991 S. Make sure you get an S. I had an opportunity to drive one and it was incredible. Went with the M3 this time due to the need of a trunk and back seats.

STALKER · 03-23-2014, 05:50 PM

I traded in my E90 M3 for a 991 C4S. I DD my car, and require a back seat. If I didn't need the back seat or DD it, I would very strongly consider a Cayman, its an amazing car and plenty quick. The new Cayman is an entirely different animal then before.

ChrisF · 03-23-2014, 08:48 PM

The Cayman is a wonderful car but it's underpowered. I tried going down that road and always wanted more. The 991 C2S is a great car but I found it a little lacking in feel and character. If I had to have just one car, I'd probably buy a C2S. If you want character and practicality isn't an issue, consider a 997.1 or .2 GT3. There is always going to be something faster but I've never driven anything else more engaging and fun.

loopsandsounds · 03-25-2014, 09:37 AM

I just moved from a E92 to a 991 C2S. 2013 with all the goodies (SPASM, PSE, SC, Sport Design pack). Picked it up with 800 miles on the odometer for 30% off original MSRP on the build sheet.

If you can find a well optioned, low mileage, certified C2S for under 100K, the 991 is hands down a superior car versus both the M3 and the Cayman S. It's definitely stiffer and faster, but in soft mode it's a great DD and is far more an experience to drive. If you option up a Cayman S you end up at high 80's/low 90's. At that point buy the slightly used C2S!

Petros · 03-25-2014, 10:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by loopsandsounds

I just moved from a E92 to a 991 C2S. 2013 with all the goodies (SPASM, PSE, SC, Sport Design pack). Picked it up with 800 miles on the odometer for 30% off original MSRP on the build sheet.

If you can find a well optioned, low mileage, certified C2S for under 100K, the 991 is hands down a superior car versus both the M3 and the Cayman S. It's definitely stiffer and faster, but in soft mode it's a great DD and is far more an experience to drive. If you option up a Cayman S you end up at high 80's/low 90's. At that point buy the slightly used C2S!

Agreed. The new Cayman is outrageously priced for what it is. And despite the price it still has the stigma of being the poor man's Porsche for those who can't afford a 911. A 911 is still the iconic Porsche and the one car that has always been the image and poster boy for Porsche.

Deathboy · 03-25-2014, 12:47 PM

I love the new Cayman, Just bought one. Great drivers cars. Its no 911 but i didnt want a 911. Who cares what people think. Drive what you like.

Echo M3 · 03-26-2014, 05:13 PM

Thanks for the feedback, everyone.

It's interesting to hear all the negative thoughts regarding the Cayman. I was leaning towards the Cayman GTS prior to posting this, but most seem to think it will be a step in the wrong direction. Reviews have been glowing about the new iteration of the Cayman, particularly in the S guise, so I figured that the GTS could only be a (small) further step in the right direction.

For me, I hate the idea of buying a used Carrera S, even one that has been maintained well. There's something so special about the experience of taking delivery of your own new car, and knowing its entire history. While I COULD afford a new Carrera S, the premium is quite large over the Cayman GTS (almost $30k for a similarly optioned vehicle), and it felt softer and more like a GT than a sports car when I drove it.

While I respect and appreciate the pedigree of the 911, I don't think it quite stands for what it once did. Furthermore, I've never been one for brands, reputations, or what others think of me; I prefer purchasing what I enjoy the most.

Having said all this, I have this nagging sensation that I might regret not opting for the 3.8 L of the Carrera S, which is a glorious engine, or for its beautiful exterior. There is something to be said for the stunning performance of the vehicle.

I'm going to continue mulling over things, while I work on numbers with the dealer. I will keep this thread informed, for those facing the same dilemma for me (not that anyone will likely care).

6underpressure · 03-26-2014, 07:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hova00

I came from an e92 M3 and have a 991S now and don't regret the change at all. My 991S has ran 11.7@119.5 stock which iam happy with since the car is N/A 3.8l flat six.

My M3 with a full catlesss setup was trapping 116-117mph for comaparion. Since I have taken both of them to the road course also the 991S beats the M3 hands down. Really there is no comparison there. The M3's brakes were gone after a couple hard laps at NJMP-Thunderbolt where the 991S was strong all day lap after lap.

If it were me I couldn't get the Cayman because it just isn't quick enough for the money but a 991S is the ticket. The looks along with the sound are amazing and it seems as if everyone loves a 911 when driving it.

BTW, if your interested my 2013 991S may be for sale.

Iam itching for a new car again.

Wow really quick for n/a! I didn't know there was that much of a difference I did 12.6 @110 in my dct m3 what was you 60 foot?

6underpressure · 03-26-2014, 07:54 PM

Do what u want...I bought a used 335 an I really wanted a m3 at the time... Now I own a new m3 just three years later you never know what's down the road

LarThaL · 03-30-2014, 05:45 AM

Keep in mind that the Cayman GTS just came out so likely very few have actually driven one. Porsche has been upping the power on the Cayman also. The GTS gives you 340hp in a car that is under 3000 lbs and is mid-engine. I would get the Cayman GTS over the 991 S.

Wolfinwolfsclothing · 03-30-2014, 07:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LarThaL

Keep in mind that the Cayman GTS just came out so likely very few have actually driven one. Porsche has been upping the power on the Cayman also. The GTS gives you 340hp in a car that is under 3000 lbs and is mid-engine. I would get the Cayman GTS over the 991 S.

In the quester mile, a current gen Cayman/Boxster trap 112 mph, which is right in the same area of the M3, also around 112 (talking mag times not real world) but they are seriously quick and o a back road, forget it, you'll never touch one.

And 340 hp in a 3000 lb car which happens to be a Porsche, is like 380-400 hp in any other car.

Wolfinwolfsclothing · 03-30-2014, 07:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 6underpressure

Wow really quick for n/a! I didn't know there was that much of a difference I did 12.6 110 in my dct m3 what was you 60 foot?

The difference is huge to say the least.

Think of it this way…the jump from e46 m3 to e9x m3 was huge. The jump from e9x m3 to a 991S is bigger.

Echo M3 · 03-31-2014, 04:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LarThaL

Keep in mind that the Cayman GTS just came out so likely very few have actually driven one. Porsche has been upping the power on the Cayman also. The GTS gives you 340hp in a car that is under 3000 lbs and is mid-engine. I would get the Cayman GTS over the 991 S.

Well said, these are my sentiments.

In fact, I just spoke to the dealership and placed my order for a 981 cayman GTS. Carmine red, 6MT. Expecting delivery in June.

Now it's time to sell the M, sadly!

surewin · 04-29-2014, 11:57 AM

My brother owns a 981 Cayman S and it's very light on its feet compared to my M3. I've also driven a 991 Carrera S and the mid engine layout of the Cayman makes it more neutral while cornering.

Personally I take handling over straight line performance any day. The 981 S is definitely not slow in the straight though, running 0-60 mph in 4.1 sec and 1/4 mile in 12.6 sec according to Car and Driver, but where the Cayman really shines is in the handling department. So much so that Car and Driver says that they would pick that car for the best car of 2014 if they didn't have a 10 best.

If I could sacrifice practicality, I would get a 981 Cayman S myself. I also think the 981 looks better than the 991. It definitely turns more heads.

Here's a pic of my brother's car:

F1Venom · 04-29-2014, 12:38 PM

I'd take the Cayman GTS over an F80 M3, hands down. Considering they'll be within a few thousand of each other I'd say they're fair competitors.

Also, is it just me or does the F80 already look dated? I think that because it looks so much like the M5/6, which have been out for over two years now, the F80 just doesn't do it for me. And it's this generation that the M3/5/6s look this much alike.

03-23-2014, 10:53 AM	#1
Echo M3 Major 123 Rep 1,432 Posts Drives: E90 M3 Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: NY iTrader: (0)	vs. 991S/ Cayman GTS So, I'm considering selling my M3 and going for the new Cayman GTS. I test drove both the 991 S and the Cayman S this weekend. My impression was that the Cayman S "felt" more like a sports car - the engine is loud, the car feels like it wraps around you, the manual transmission is beautiful and precise, and the chassis is sublime. The one downside is that it doesn't feel much quicker than my M3, at least in a straight line. The 991 S looks even better, and pulls incredibly hard over 5k rpm - much more so than my E90 M3, in fact. However, $110k+ is hard to justify, given that it takes me quite close to the base price for a GT3. I also didn't like that it's noticeably quieter until you get over 4k rpm; given that this is going to be a weekend/track car for me, noise dampening is something I do NOT want. Practicality matters not for me. For the $80-100k price range, I am faced with either a lightly used 991S, or a new Cayman GTS. And frankly, I'm completely torn. I like the idea of taking delivery of a new car (the GTS looks stunning), but I wonder if I will regret the "horsepower downgrade". Any thoughts or suggestions? Anyone else face a similar dilemma? Cheers
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03-23-2014, 11:13 AM	#2
quiksi Captain 75 Rep 903 Posts Drives: E90 Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Houston, TX iTrader: (1) Garage List 2018 Toyota Tundra ... [0.00] 2011.5 E90 M3 [0.00]	the cayman does weigh substantially less than the M3, so the power deficit probably isn't that noticeable it also makes you feel like a superhero driving it __________________ 2011 E90 M3 6mt AW/Speed Cloth - ZCP, Moonroof, non-iDrive - PCD 12/9/10 Painted reflectors, matte black grills/gills, Deansbimmer Belly Pan, DEI Alarm, Homelink/compass retrofit, Passport MAX2 Hardwire, GP Thunder 8500K, modmy3 LED interior, Dinan Mufflers, HRE P40 19" Satin Charcoal, Michelin PS4S
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03-23-2014, 11:17 AM	#3
Wolfinwolfsclothing Banned 37 Rep 1,312 Posts Drives: E92 ///M3 Coupe Join Date: Sep 2012 Location: B-roads iTrader: (2)	Well, the m3 is a ~112 mph trap car and the 991S traps 116/117, so yea the M3 isn't even in the same ballpark. The new M3 will be lucky to be trapping those speeds. So yes the 991S is significantly faster. Even the 997.2 S with PDK pulls like a freight train on a modded M3 dct with tune and exhaust… Both the 991 and Cayman are also significantly lighter than the M3 which add to how much faster the 991 is and how the cayman is right there with it. Track times, the 997 is faster and the 991S obliterates it. 991S did 7:37 on the ring where no BMW has ever ran a time that fast. The M3 GTS ran 7:48 and the e92 m3 8:05, so again not the sam realm. A cayman/boxster S arent much slower than our m3s despite the nearly 100 hp less they have. I think you'll be happy with either, but as of right now I don't think anything can top the 991 platform short of a super/hyper car and even then.
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03-23-2014, 12:45 PM	#4
ki__ Brigadier General 409 Rep 3,479 Posts Drives: 19 M2C 6MT Join Date: May 2008 Location: Los Angeles, CA iTrader: (6) Garage List 2019 BMW F87 M2C [0.00]	I'm on a similar boat. Considering these two cars as well as another M3. Very interested to see which car you choose.
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03-23-2014, 01:41 PM	#5
Black Gold Major General 592 Rep 5,396 Posts Drives: M3 Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: Texas iTrader: (15)	ive driven both of those cars and liked the 991s A LOT more. to me, it was much quicker, had a ton of grip, handled and steered great, and looked amazing. if I got a cayman I would always wish I had a 991, but jmo you drove both, and if the cayman does it for you more than the 991, go for it. me, 991 or nothing __________________
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03-23-2014, 02:48 PM	#6
hova00 Major 1191 Rep 1,360 Posts Drives: G80 M3C Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: EAST COAST iTrader: (7)	I came from an e92 M3 and have a 991S now and don't regret the change at all. My 991S has ran 11.7@119.5 stock which iam happy with since the car is N/A 3.8l flat six. My M3 with a full catlesss setup was trapping 116-117mph for comaparion. Since I have taken both of them to the road course also the 991S beats the M3 hands down. Really there is no comparison there. The M3's brakes were gone after a couple hard laps at NJMP-Thunderbolt where the 991S was strong all day lap after lap. If it were me I couldn't get the Cayman because it just isn't quick enough for the money but a 991S is the ticket. The looks along with the sound are amazing and it seems as if everyone loves a 911 when driving it. BTW, if your interested my 2013 991S may be for sale. Iam itching for a new car again. Last edited by hova00; 03-23-2014 at 03:45 PM..
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03-23-2014, 05:32 PM	#8
M3Captain Banned 46 Rep 572 Posts Drives: M3 and a McDonnell Douglas Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: NJ iTrader: (1)	I haven't driven the cayman, but I would definitely say get a 991 S. Make sure you get an S. I had an opportunity to drive one and it was incredible. Went with the M3 this time due to the need of a trunk and back seats.
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03-23-2014, 05:50 PM	#9
STALKER Brigadier General 169 Rep 3,831 Posts Drives: 997.2 GT3, Golf R Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Toronto, ON iTrader: (5)	I traded in my E90 M3 for a 991 C4S. I DD my car, and require a back seat. If I didn't need the back seat or DD it, I would very strongly consider a Cayman, its an amazing car and plenty quick. The new Cayman is an entirely different animal then before. __________________
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03-23-2014, 08:48 PM	#10
ChrisF Second Lieutenant 11 Rep 203 Posts Drives: '11 M3 ZCP, '10 997.2 GT3 Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Marin iTrader: (1)	The Cayman is a wonderful car but it's underpowered. I tried going down that road and always wanted more. The 991 C2S is a great car but I found it a little lacking in feel and character. If I had to have just one car, I'd probably buy a C2S. If you want character and practicality isn't an issue, consider a 997.1 or .2 GT3. There is always going to be something faster but I've never driven anything else more engaging and fun.
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03-25-2014, 09:37 AM	#11
loopsandsounds Member 33 Rep 115 Posts Drives: X7M50, GT3RS, G80 M3, Raptor Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: CT iTrader: (3)	I just moved from a E92 to a 991 C2S. 2013 with all the goodies (SPASM, PSE, SC, Sport Design pack). Picked it up with 800 miles on the odometer for 30% off original MSRP on the build sheet. If you can find a well optioned, low mileage, certified C2S for under 100K, the 991 is hands down a superior car versus both the M3 and the Cayman S. It's definitely stiffer and faster, but in soft mode it's a great DD and is far more an experience to drive. If you option up a Cayman S you end up at high 80's/low 90's. At that point buy the slightly used C2S!
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03-25-2014, 12:47 PM	#13
Deathboy Lieutenant 20 Rep 446 Posts Drives: GT4 Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Locals only... iTrader: (0)	I love the new Cayman, Just bought one. Great drivers cars. Its no 911 but i didnt want a 911. Who cares what people think. Drive what you like.
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03-26-2014, 05:13 PM	#14
Echo M3 Major 123 Rep 1,432 Posts Drives: E90 M3 Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: NY iTrader: (0)	Thanks for the feedback, everyone. It's interesting to hear all the negative thoughts regarding the Cayman. I was leaning towards the Cayman GTS prior to posting this, but most seem to think it will be a step in the wrong direction. Reviews have been glowing about the new iteration of the Cayman, particularly in the S guise, so I figured that the GTS could only be a (small) further step in the right direction. For me, I hate the idea of buying a used Carrera S, even one that has been maintained well. There's something so special about the experience of taking delivery of your own new car, and knowing its entire history. While I COULD afford a new Carrera S, the premium is quite large over the Cayman GTS (almost $30k for a similarly optioned vehicle), and it felt softer and more like a GT than a sports car when I drove it. While I respect and appreciate the pedigree of the 911, I don't think it quite stands for what it once did. Furthermore, I've never been one for brands, reputations, or what others think of me; I prefer purchasing what I enjoy the most. Having said all this, I have this nagging sensation that I might regret not opting for the 3.8 L of the Carrera S, which is a glorious engine, or for its beautiful exterior. There is something to be said for the stunning performance of the vehicle. I'm going to continue mulling over things, while I work on numbers with the dealer. I will keep this thread informed, for those facing the same dilemma for me (not that anyone will likely care).
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03-26-2014, 07:54 PM	#16
6underpressure Private First Class 7 Rep 151 Posts Drives: M3 Join Date: Apr 2012 Location: south nj iTrader: (0)	Do what u want...I bought a used 335 an I really wanted a m3 at the time... Now I own a new m3 just three years later you never know what's down the road
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03-30-2014, 05:45 AM	#17
LarThaL Colonel 336 Rep 2,940 Posts Drives: 2011 M3 Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: West Springfield, MA iTrader: (0)	Keep in mind that the Cayman GTS just came out so likely very few have actually driven one. Porsche has been upping the power on the Cayman also. The GTS gives you 340hp in a car that is under 3000 lbs and is mid-engine. I would get the Cayman GTS over the 991 S. __________________ **Audi S6 Audi S3 * Porsche Cayman GTS* --Former BMW M3 owner**
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04-29-2014, 11:57 AM	#21
surewin ///M3mber 185 Rep 430 Posts Drives: 2008 E92 M3 Join Date: Oct 2012 Location: Southern CA iTrader: (3) Garage List 2008 BMW E92 M3 [0.00]	My brother owns a 981 Cayman S and it's very light on its feet compared to my M3. I've also driven a 991 Carrera S and the mid engine layout of the Cayman makes it more neutral while cornering. Personally I take handling over straight line performance any day. The 981 S is definitely not slow in the straight though, running 0-60 mph in 4.1 sec and 1/4 mile in 12.6 sec according to Car and Driver, but where the Cayman really shines is in the handling department. So much so that Car and Driver says that they would pick that car for the best car of 2014 if they didn't have a 10 best. If I could sacrifice practicality, I would get a 981 Cayman S myself. I also think the 981 looks better than the 991. It definitely turns more heads. Here's a pic of my brother's car: __________________ 6-Speed \| Inconel M Exhaust \| Stoptech \| Macht Schnell \| AST Instagram: surewin_e92m
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04-29-2014, 12:38 PM	#22
F1Venom Banned 73 Rep 961 Posts Drives: ZCP E90 M3 Join Date: Apr 2013 Location: USA iTrader: (0)	I'd take the Cayman GTS over an F80 M3, hands down. Considering they'll be within a few thousand of each other I'd say they're fair competitors. Also, is it just me or does the F80 already look dated? I think that because it looks so much like the M5/6, which have been out for over two years now, the F80 just doesn't do it for me. And it's this generation that the M3/5/6s look this much alike.
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