I new Audi rival for the M3?

[footie]

I seen this on World Car Fans website and thought it might be of interest to some of you.

As most here have been watching for what Mercedes & Audi are doing (C63 & RS5) as to see where the next competition will come from and how big of a threat they might be, well it looks like this car has slipped under the radar.

http://www.worldcarfans.com/9071026....di-tt-rs-spied

It an Audi TT but not like any other, while all of the others are a rival for either the Z4 or 1 series, this TT is clearly the M3 firmly in it's sights. It's said to be running a RS4 engine with Audi's equivalent M-DCT gearbox complete with 7 gear and Audi's most advanced quattro system (Quattro3) which has a thing called Torque Vectoring, a very advanced LSD in a similar style to the M-diff.

If this thing get to production then I seriously believe it will be more of a threat than either the C63, CLK63 or RS5.

[JEllis]

With only two seats I dont see how this is a direct competitor for the M3. I dont see this car stealing potential M3 buyers away.

[mkoesel]

So you really think this car has a transverse V8 in it? I'll bet its a forced fed 3.2L or 3.6L VR6.

Also, it is by definition, not an M3 competitor since its not the same class of vehicle. If this is an M3 competitor so, arguably, is the Z4 M. (And yes I know the TT is technically a 2+2 in coupe form, but the rear seat is not even child-seat-usable).

[aerisolphaln]

Originally Posted by JEllis

With only two seats I dont see how this is a direct competitor for the M3. I dont see this car stealing potential M3 buyers away.

True, but then one might wonder, with only two doors does the M3 take away RS4 or C63 drivers?

[JEllis]

^ Ahem... M3 is not a two door car only

[footie]

Originally Posted by mkoesel

So you really think this car has a transverse V8 in it? I'll bet its a forced fed 3.2L or 3.6L VR6.

Also, it is by definition, not an M3 competitor since its not the same class of vehicle. If this is an M3 competitor so, arguably, is the Z4 M. (And yes I know the TT is technically a 2+2 in coupe form, but the rear seat is not even child-seat-usable).

No, the engine isn't transverse, it mounted the traditional way exactly like the M3 and every other BMW and Audi from the A4 up.

As someone has already said, the M3 is taking sales from the RS4 and C class AMG for years in coupe form so why the surprise that another coupe (admittedly with less space in the rear) not steal sales from it.

If it was to receive the RS4 engine without any drop in output then I doubt the M3 or C63 would stand a chance in acceleration at least. My concern would be it's handling, how could something with such a heavy engine handle. But why should I doubt Audi's abilities, it turned the RS4 into something which in more than one or two reviews has bested the M3 and C63.

Not hard for another nose-heavy Audi, see the similarities.

[hks786]

Originally Posted by JEllis

^ Ahem... M3 is not a two door car only

Neither is the TT, it has rear seats too although there is less legroom than the M3...

Anyway back to the topic, as far as I'm aware it's nowhere near official that the TT will come with a V8. It's more likely it will come with 2.0TFSi or 3.2V6. Also, I'm not sure that the TT-S or TT-R would be M3 competitors due to the dimensions of the car. I would say they are rivals for the new 1 Coupe. The RS5 will be put against the M3 and the RS4 with the new M3 Sedan (E90).

Oh yeah and dont forget Audi will be making a new RS4 based on the B8 plaform but I doubt we'll see anything soon since they're still testing the next S4

[Leg]

Never happen, there will not be a V8 TT. This has been discussed to death on the TTF.

If you dont believe me, go to the TT Forum, post and ask Nutts what he knows. He is the chairman of the TTOC and they have very good connections to Audi (I went with Nutts and the Vice Chair to the launch of the Mk2 TT in Berlin last year off the back of that relationship as a guest of Audi UK).

The TTS will have the S3 engine and quattro and appear next year.

Having driven the S3 I couldnt face the turbo lag in a S3 engined TT and in fact, thats why I ordered an M3 having been a devoted TT fan for some time and being unable to find anything in between that I liked.

Ill be keeping my modded Mk1 06 3.2 TTC though.

[Robert]

I dont like the fact they detuned the rs4 engine to produce 350hp for the TTRS.

[GregW / Oregon]

Originally Posted by bobbo

I dont like the fact they detuned the rs4 engine to produce 350hp for the TTRS.

No different than Mercedes detuning the 6.2 for the C63.

[mkoesel]

Originally Posted by footie

No, the engine isn't transverse, it mounted the traditional way exactly like the M3 and every other BMW and Audi from the A4 up.

No production TT has ever had a longitudinal motor. People genuinely believe they are going to change the engine layout for the RS? That's some pretty darn bold speculation right there. How big a chance would you put on that, out of curiousity? You think there's even a 20% chance of that happening?

As someone has already said, the M3 is taking sales from the RS4 and C class AMG for years in coupe form so why the surprise that another coupe (admittedly with less space in the rear) not steal sales from it.

Has it? I think the whole reason the E90 M3 exists now is specifically because the M3 does not - in the general case - work for those who need a people hauler. Some people don't think much of the rear seat access, but plenty more do. The RS4 and C55 tally sales due precisely to the latter group. BMW will now try to attract them to the M brand with the 4 door M3.

If it was to receive the RS4 engine without any drop in output then I doubt the M3 or C63 would stand a chance in acceleration at least. My concern would be it's handling, how could something with such a heavy engine handle. But why should I doubt Audi's abilities, it turned the RS4 into something which in more than one or two reviews has bested the M3 and C63

Plenty of cars out accelerate the M3. The TT RS probably will too, regardless of what motor it gets. Even if the TT RS beats the M3 in every single category, there will be no max exodus from M3 to TT. The segments are different, the buyers are different.

footie, you really seem to want to find a reason to stick with Audi, even though you are here checking on the M3. If you really want an Audi, then by all means wait for the right one.

[Leg]

Originally Posted by bobbo

I dont like the fact they detuned the rs4 engine to produce 350hp for the TTRS.

What 'fact'? There is no 'fact'. Its fiction of the highest order!

Audi will NOT produce a V8 TT.

It would interfere with the rest of their range too much. A 420bhp TT would, for example, have the same performance as an £80K (and the rest) R8 yet would have to cost under £50K.

That means they cant make one without offering the same performance as an R8 for £30K less in a similar coupe package, never gonna happen.

They cant tackle that problem by making the TT more than £50K either as who the hell would pay £50K plus for a TT of any sort? It hasnt got the image status for that. Not to mention the fact that if it was £50K plus it is into RS5 territory and why the chuff woudl Audi want 2 400 plus bhp V8 coupes in the same price range? It would be madness.

So, a 420BHP TT is out of the question and we are left with a 350BHP TT.

Bearing in mind that a specced up 3.2TT or the new S3 engined TTS (likely to be an S Line rather than true 'S' model) costs around £35K-£38K that means a 350bhp RS TT would have to cost around £50K specced bearing in mind Audis price difference between other S and RS models. If it was less it would be too close to the lower models and harm sales as everyone would go for the V8 over the V6 or blown engine.

Im afraid £50K is far too close, for a 350bhp TT, to the RS4 and RS5 price.

Audi just dont have a slot for a V8TT in their range.

Discussed to death on the TTF forum and plenty of posts from a couple of people who are in the know if you are that interested....

http://www.tt-forum.co.uk/ttforumbbs...e0c6da11713b1d

Footie Ive had a few TTs, still own a last of the line heavily modified Mk1 V6, write for the club magazine (my current TT has been on the cover 3 times) and have 6000 posts on the TTF and I'm guaranteeing you there wont be a V8 TT m8. Sorry. Maybe a 2.5T RS TT but dont hold your breath.

[footie]

Originally Posted by mkoesel

No production TT has ever had a longitudinal motor. People genuinely believe they are going to change the engine layout for the RS? That's some pretty darn bold speculation right there. How big a chance would you put on that, out of curiousity? You think there's even a 20% chance of that happening?

I am only reporting what I have seen on other Audi based websites and thought it might have been of interest here.

Originally Posted by mkoesel

Has it? I think the whole reason the E90 M3 exists now is specifically because the M3 does not - in the general case - work for those who need a people hauler. Some people don't think much of the rear seat access, but plenty more do. The RS4 and C55 tally sales due precisely to the latter group. BMW will now try to attract them to the M brand with the 4 door M3.

I can't speak for the rest of Europe or the US but here in the UK, M3 saloons sold like polished turds (turd=shit). The only M3 which sold in any numbers was the coupe which I might add out sells both the Mercedes C class AMG and RS4 put together, so clearly it's more than just non-family buyers who are buying the cars don't you think.

Originally Posted by mkoesel

Plenty of cars out accelerate the M3. The TT RS probably will too, regardless of what motor it gets. Even if the TT RS beats the M3 in every single category, there will be no max exodus from M3 to TT. The segments are different, the buyers are different.

footie, you really seem to want to find a reason to stick with Audi, even though you are here checking on the M3. If you really want an Audi, then by all means wait for the right one.

Read my first reply.

I would have thought that something other than BMW news would have been nice to hear for a change. I know how great the M3 is and that's why I have one on order but just because I see something offering an alternative does not meant I am looking to jump ship and don't feel your remarks were warranted. No one with saying that BMW's sales were is danger but to say some people would consider a hot TT instead of an M3 is plain silly, anyone with a two car family only really considers to two front seats in an M3, just as I did.

I also see the M3 taking sales from the bigger M6, even though they are in totally different sectors, it call personal choice my friend and everyone is allow to have it.

[footie]

Leg,

Your points are fair and do make a lot of sense. But in a way the M3 and M6 are a bit like the TT/RS and the R8, two cars offering similar performance and in fact with the M3 you are getting more rear space, better handling and dare I say it much better looks/design and all for £30K less.

I BMW seem fit to offer this then surely Audi are capable of doing the same. The talk I hear about the TT was in early development both transverse and the traditional engine mounting were both considered and believe it or not both catered for in the design, maybe Audi will move the A3 away for the VW Golf roots and both it and the face-lift TT when it comes will change to the same as the rest of the Audi line-up with the same quattro system, who knows. But back to the design, like I said both were catered for so maybe it isn't such a big thing to do changes after all.

Like I said it news I thought worst sharing with the group but I reckon I will pick and chose before post something like this again as clearly some people felt it wasn't news worthy.

[ruff]

Originally Posted by GregW / Oregon

No different than Mercedes detuning the 6.2 for the C63.

And detuning the 3 litre in the 330 to the lesser power rating in the 328.

[mkoesel]

Originally Posted by footie

I am only reporting what I have seen on other Audi based websites and thought it might have been of interest here.

Most of what you read on the net is BS. Sometimes you have to weigh it with a bit of your own best judgement. Just a friendly thought.

I can't speak for the rest of Europe or the US but here in the UK, M3 saloons sold like polished turds (turd=shit). The only M3 which sold in any numbers was the coupe which I might add out sells both the Mercedes C class AMG and RS4 put together, so clearly it's more than just non-family buyers who are buying the cars don't you think.

Well the M3 outsells plenty of other sedans too. Its a popular car. But if someone needs a 4-door, they buy one. Plus, those cars cost more than an M3, especially the RS4.

There have been reports here that, at some dealerships, the sedan waiting list is longer than the coupe waiting list. The 4 door is absolutely in high demand.

Read my first reply.

Not sure I understand your comabitive stance here. I am not attacking you personally. This is, I believe, the third topic in this forum where I've replied to your posts, and each time it has been solely to question your information as it simply has not been adding up. Again, I have nothing personal against you, I just want to make sure the forum remains a place for good solid information, as I am sure you do also. The point of discussion here is to weed through what is fact and what is just conjecture. And to simply have a good time with fellow enthusiasts.

anyone with a two car family only really considers to two front seats in an M3, just as I did.

Not in my case - I value the rear seats in my car greatly. I have met others online who feel the same way. If I did not need rear seats, there's no way I'd be driving a car that had them. I'd be in something smaller and lighter like a Boxster/Cayman or Z4 M.

[mkoesel]

Originally Posted by footie

Like I said it news I thought worst sharing with the group but I reckon I will pick and chose before post something like this again as clearly some people felt it wasn't news worthy.

footie, also keep in mind there is a "General Cars Talk" section on BimmerPost for topics like this one. Again, just a friendly pointer.

[footie]

Originally Posted by mkoesel

footie, you really seem to want to find a reason to stick with Audi, even though you are here checking on the M3. If you really want an Audi, then by all means wait for the right one.

Here's what made me angry, I have only started posting on this site and just because I highlight something other than BMW someone slates me for it and tell me I not really wanting an M3 at all.

You don't pay £55K ($110K) for a car you don't want, now do you. I liked the M3 enough to consider changing brands which is a big thing and something I haven't done in over 8 years and that should be a good enough reason to be welcomed on to the site and treated with a manner that makes you want to stay.

Originally Posted by mkoesel

Well the M3 outsells plenty of other sedans too. Its a popular car. But if someone needs a 4-door, they buy one. Plus, those cars cost more than an M3, especially the RS4.

There have been reports here that, at some dealerships, the sedan waiting list is longer than the coupe waiting list. The 4 door is absolutely in high demand.

Your comments about price difference seems to be based on where you are, clearly in the US BMW are more competitively priced than Audi, over here there is no difference in price between the RS4 and M3 with the C63 commanding the most by nearly 10%. Again Stateside the saloon may well sell as good as the coupe but I can only comment on my area so this may be why I feel we are seeing things differently.

Originally Posted by mkoesel

footie, also keep in mind there is a "General Cars Talk" section on BimmerPost for topics like this one. Again, just a friendly pointer.

The only reason I posted it here was I felt the relevance of a hot TT being a rival to the M3, cars like the IS-F, C63 and RS4 where discussed here and I reckon this TT warranted chat space here too.

Put this mistake down to being new.

P.S.

I think I best sit in the side lines for a while.

[mkoesel]

Hey footie, sorry I angered you, that wasn't the intent. Don't leave now, you've just finally gotten through the initial shakedown process. Besides we want to see pics of the M3 when it comes in.

[GregW / Oregon]

Originally Posted by mkoesel

footie, also keep in mind there is a "General Cars Talk" section on BimmerPost for topics like this one. Again, just a friendly pointer.

Personally, I dislike splitting up relevant topics into separate forums--too many to read. I'd rather scan one forum for all related topics. Just MO.

[markjenz]

Originally Posted by footie

I seen this on World Car Fans website and thought it might be of interest to some of you.

As most here have been watching for what Mercedes & Audi are doing (C63 & RS5) as to see where the next competition will come from and how big of a threat they might be, well it looks like this car has slipped under the radar.

http://www.worldcarfans.com/9071026....di-tt-rs-spied

It an Audi TT but not like any other, while all of the others are a rival for either the Z4 or 1 series, this TT is clearly the M3 firmly in it's sights. It's said to be running a RS4 engine with Audi's equivalent M-DCT gearbox complete with 7 gear and Audi's most advanced quattro system (Quattro3) which has a thing called Torque Vectoring, a very advanced LSD in a similar style to the M-diff.

If this thing get to production then I seriously believe it will be more of a threat than either the C63, CLK63 or RS5.

tt-rs vs M3 ???? what are we talking about ??
1. audi tt is competitor to cayman slk z4
2. there won't be a v8 in a tt
3. audi will have a decent competitor to m3 with the new rs5 and rs4 which i both expect to beat BMW...sorry to say...on the other hand i also expect them to be much more expensive



still waiting for delivery of my m3 2nd week of november :-)))

[mkoesel]

Originally Posted by GregW / Oregon

Personally, I dislike splitting up relevant topics into separate forums--too many to read. I'd rather scan one forum for all related topics. Just MO.

I am with you on that Greg, but I just don't think this one was that relevant.

RS5 info? Sure, post that up in here.