German AUTOZEITUNG tests M3 against C63

Uli_HH · 10-31-2007, 02:43 AM

The german AUTOZEITUNG from today has tested the BMW M3 (E92coupe) against the Mercedes C63.
The M3 is clearly better on track (handling, weight and specially the much better brakes

) but looses overall mostly because of its disadvantage of 2-doors against 4-doors

...without this it would be an very close race

Greets Uli_HH

Robert · 10-31-2007, 02:48 AM

Makes no sense. If that is such a big factor why do they even pit a 4dr against a 2d in a comparo

Just_me · 10-31-2007, 02:56 AM

Was there a huge difference from 0-200km/h?

Uli_HH · 10-31-2007, 03:36 AM

M3: 16,1s

C63: 15,3s

Greets

Just_me · 10-31-2007, 04:05 AM

LoL, 15.3 is almost M5 performance but 16.1 is not bad either

C63 is likely going to win most redlight races agains the M3. I wonder how much faster M3 was around Autozeitung's testtrack than C63.

savage.ulm1 · 10-31-2007, 04:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Just_me

LoL, 15.3 is almost M5 performance but 16.1 is not bad either

C63 is likely going to win most redlight races agains the M3. I wonder how much faster M3 was around Autozeitung's testtrack than C63.

I would have a question for you...

do you confirm that still the 8.03 on the Ring is provisional?and we still don't know if the Cup tires were used?I am sure that you will have the definitive lap time before that Sport Auto will be available. Am I right??

many thanks

Just_me · 10-31-2007, 04:23 AM

Regarding N-ring laptime I havent heard anything new. All I know it will be in the next Sportauto in two weeks

savage.ulm1 · 10-31-2007, 04:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Just_me

Regarding N-ring laptime I havent heard anything new. All I know it will be in the next Sportauto in two weeks

Thanks:-)

Just_me · 10-31-2007, 04:47 AM

So was the M3 in AZ on Cups?

Epacy · 10-31-2007, 06:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Uli_HH

but looses overall mostly because of its disadvantage of 2-doors against 4-doors

...without this it would be an very close race

This is the same exact lame conclusion that I believe CAR magazine came to.

Why pit them against each other then and use the number of doors as the defining criteria?

footie · 10-31-2007, 07:31 AM

The reason they pit both together is to full space in the magazine and of course help sales. If they were to wait until BMW had the M3 saloon out for comparison then that would be to late for some of the buyers who have their name do for one or the other now.

You have to read between the lines and ignore the different body types, if either car appeals based on everything else then go for that and but the other. The only reason why I wouldn't have the C63 is the automatic box, there is always that delay between throttle being pressed and gear dropping down and car going forward, I hate it and will never warm to torque converters.

Thank god the M3 is getting a dual clutch manual box instead.

Uli_HH · 10-31-2007, 10:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Just_me

So was the M3 in AZ on Cups?

No...both were on 18" (M3 Michelin PS2 / C63 Pirelli P Zero)

Quote:

Originally Posted by footie

...The only reason why I wouldn't have the C63 is the automatic box, there is always that delay between throttle being pressed and gear dropping down and car going forward, I hate it and will never warm to torque converters.

Thank god the M3 is getting a dual clutch manual box instead.

AUTOZEITUNG quots that the C63 Automatic ist so perfect that it was as good as the M3 MT6 ... and both are references for their tranny-systems ... seems for me that the M3 driver must be very good on the clutch and on the stick to be as fast as the C63 ... and on the C63 every driver was fast

Lets hope that the coming M-DCT make the difference and the M3 eats the C63

Greets Uli_HH

Just_me · 10-31-2007, 01:08 PM

No one with more info from the test?

brake distance?
acceleration figures?
laptimes?
slalom?
AZ conclusion about the two?

southlight · 10-31-2007, 01:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Just_me

No one with more info from the test?

Braking distance:
M3: 35.7m (cold) - 35.0m (warm)
C63: 36.2m (cold) - 35.4m (warm)

0-100 kph | 0-200 kph:
M3: 5.1s | 16.1s
C63: 4.6s | 15.3s

laptimes:
M3: 1.39,0
C63: 1.40,3

slalom:
M3: 62.1 Kph
C63: 59.7 kph

Best regards, south

ILC32 · 10-31-2007, 01:39 PM

That 0-100 time for the M3 is a little slow. Either they had traction problems or the car was a little off. I wonder what the AZ 0-100 time was for the E46 M3.

Just_me · 10-31-2007, 02:27 PM

bad 0-100 time but it looks like the M3 is fast once you get grip. "only" 0.8 sec slower to 200km/h than C63. Power vs weight

savage.ulm1 · 10-31-2007, 05:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by southlight

Braking distance:
M3: 35.7m (cold) - 35.0m (warm)
C63: 36.2m (cold) - 35.4m (warm)

0-100 kph | 0-200 kph:
M3: 5.1s -4,8| 16.1s
C63: 4.6s | 15.3s

laptimes:
M3: 1.39,0 1.40,1
C63: 1.40,3

slalom:
M3: 62.1 Kph 70,4
C63: 59.7 kph
I added the numbers published on the September issue during the test betwen the M3-R8-C6.
Doesn't seem strange this difference in the lap time,considering that in September they used the Cup Tires?

what do you think about?

savage.ulm1 · 10-31-2007, 05:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by southlight

Braking distance:

laptimes:
M3: 1.39,0
C63: 1.40,3
Best regards, south

South, can you confirm that the 1,39 is the new lap time without Cup Tires? do you agree that this could be a revolutionary lap time?
pls check below:

8. Porsche 996 Turbo S 1:38.5 Autozeitung
9. Lamborghini Gallardo Spyder 1:39.0 Autozeitung
10. Chevrolet Corvette Z06 1:39.4 Autozeitung
11. Porsche 997 Carrera S 1:39.8 Autozeitung
12. Audi R8 1:39.8 Autozeitung
13. Dodge Viper SRT-10 1:39.9 Autozeitung
14. BMW M6 1:40.0 Autozeitung
15. BMW M3 (E92) 1:40.1 Autozeitung with Cup tires!!

southlight · 11-01-2007, 05:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by savage.ulm1

South, can you confirm that the 1,39 is the new lap time without Cup Tires? do you agree that this could be a revolutionary lap time?
pls check below:

8. Porsche 996 Turbo S 1:38.5 Autozeitung
9. Lamborghini Gallardo Spyder 1:39.0 Autozeitung
10. Chevrolet Corvette Z06 1:39.4 Autozeitung
11. Porsche 997 Carrera S 1:39.8 Autozeitung
12. Audi R8 1:39.8 Autozeitung
13. Dodge Viper SRT-10 1:39.9 Autozeitung
14. BMW M6 1:40.0 Autozeitung
15. BMW M3 (E92) 1:40.1 Autozeitung with Cup tires!!

Yes, the 1.39 was on 18" Michelin PS2 tires, so no CUPs were used. Comparing with you numbers that's really a great time.

Best regards, south

Gabri343 · 11-01-2007, 06:46 AM

Very strange time because i know 1:40.1 for M3 with Cup+
http://www.fastestlaps.com/index.php...=46f388d80d375

footie · 11-01-2007, 07:19 AM

It's not really that unusual really, 18" wheel are always the best option and provide a better balance and steering feel.

mkoesel · 11-01-2007, 08:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by footie

It's not really that unusual really, 18" wheel are always the best option and provide a better balance and steering feel.

I am confused to which point in this thread that you are addressing with this statement.

As a purely general statement I'd disagree, since the wheel size is independent of sidewall thickness and wheel/tire width, which are typically more important to handling (not to mention tread and rubber compound).

10-31-2007, 02:43 AM	#1
Uli_HH Lieutenant 105 Rep 585 Posts Drives: AW M3 E90)/ 523i Touring Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Hamburg Germany iTrader: (0)	German AUTOZEITUNG tests M3 against C63 The german AUTOZEITUNG from today has tested the BMW M3 (E92coupe) against the Mercedes C63. The M3 is clearly better on track (handling, weight and specially the much better brakes) but looses overall mostly because of its disadvantage of 2-doors against 4-doors...without this it would be an very close race Greets Uli_HH
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10-31-2007, 02:48 AM	#2
Robert Major General 417 Rep 6,968 Posts Drives: 135i -> is350 -> Tesla M3 perf Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Socal iTrader: (1)	Makes no sense. If that is such a big factor why do they even pit a 4dr against a 2d in a comparo
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10-31-2007, 02:56 AM	#3
Just_me Captain 196 Rep 657 Posts Drives: RWD Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Sweden iTrader: (0)	Was there a huge difference from 0-200km/h?
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10-31-2007, 03:36 AM	#4
Uli_HH Lieutenant 105 Rep 585 Posts Drives: AW M3 E90)/ 523i Touring Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Hamburg Germany iTrader: (0)	M3: 16,1s C63: 15,3s Greets
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10-31-2007, 04:05 AM	#5
Just_me Captain 196 Rep 657 Posts Drives: RWD Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Sweden iTrader: (0)	LoL, 15.3 is almost M5 performance but 16.1 is not bad either C63 is likely going to win most redlight races agains the M3. I wonder how much faster M3 was around Autozeitung's testtrack than C63.
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10-31-2007, 04:23 AM	#7
Just_me Captain 196 Rep 657 Posts Drives: RWD Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Sweden iTrader: (0)	Regarding N-ring laptime I havent heard anything new. All I know it will be in the next Sportauto in two weeks
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10-31-2007, 04:47 AM	#9
Just_me Captain 196 Rep 657 Posts Drives: RWD Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Sweden iTrader: (0)	So was the M3 in AZ on Cups?
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10-31-2007, 07:31 AM	#11
footie Major General 1118 Rep 8,017 Posts Drives: i5M60 Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: No where fast iTrader: (0) Garage List 2024 BMW i5M60 [0.00] 2022 BMW i4M50 [0.00] 2020 BMW M5 Competi ... [0.00] 2008 E92 M3 [0.00]	The reason they pit both together is to full space in the magazine and of course help sales. If they were to wait until BMW had the M3 saloon out for comparison then that would be to late for some of the buyers who have their name do for one or the other now. You have to read between the lines and ignore the different body types, if either car appeals based on everything else then go for that and but the other. The only reason why I wouldn't have the C63 is the automatic box, there is always that delay between throttle being pressed and gear dropping down and car going forward, I hate it and will never warm to torque converters. Thank god the M3 is getting a dual clutch manual box instead.
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10-31-2007, 01:08 PM	#13
Just_me Captain 196 Rep 657 Posts Drives: RWD Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Sweden iTrader: (0)	No one with more info from the test? brake distance? acceleration figures? laptimes? slalom? AZ conclusion about the two?
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10-31-2007, 01:39 PM	#15
ILC32 Lieutenant 26 Rep 580 Posts Drives: 1993 Porsche RSA Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Somewhere iTrader: (0)	That 0-100 time for the M3 is a little slow. Either they had traction problems or the car was a little off. I wonder what the AZ 0-100 time was for the E46 M3.
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10-31-2007, 02:27 PM	#16
Just_me Captain 196 Rep 657 Posts Drives: RWD Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Sweden iTrader: (0)	bad 0-100 time but it looks like the M3 is fast once you get grip. "only" 0.8 sec slower to 200km/h than C63. Power vs weight
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11-01-2007, 06:46 AM	#20
Gabri343 Private 11 Rep 79 Posts Drives: Z4 M Roadster - ex M3 E46 Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Italy iTrader: (0)	Very strange time because i know 1:40.1 for M3 with Cup+ http://www.fastestlaps.com/index.php...=46f388d80d375
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11-01-2007, 07:19 AM	#21
footie Major General 1118 Rep 8,017 Posts Drives: i5M60 Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: No where fast iTrader: (0) Garage List 2024 BMW i5M60 [0.00] 2022 BMW i4M50 [0.00] 2020 BMW M5 Competi ... [0.00] 2008 E92 M3 [0.00]	It's not really that unusual really, 18" wheel are always the best option and provide a better balance and steering feel.
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