S5 demo drive from an (e46) m3 owner

[JerseyBeemer]

I posted this on an audi forum. I'm currently deciding between a used m5, new m3 and an s5. Figured I'd post this on here for anyone interested. Please remember, this compares the s5 to the e46 m3, since I havent actually driven the new m3 I didn't feel it appropriate to compare the 2.



Today I had an opportunity for a nice half hour drive with the S5. I currently have a (soon to be out of date) m3 and have always felt that it is the test that all other non-exotic cars should be held to. One other thing...I am a die-hard BMW guy. So here's my 2 cents...

Audi has done alot of things perfectly. The design of the car in person is striking. Couple of details that caught my eye specifically: the door locks are totally electronic, no button at all...very slick. Volume knob for the radio next to the stick shift...niiiiiice, seems like a small thing, but it is just perfect. When you get out of the car, the foot plate and body around it seem incredibly low. Gives the car a very low profile (read: pimp) feel. The seats are VERY comfortable for sport seats. Returning to my m3 seat felt like crawling into an old matress after sleeping at a 5 star hotel. Let me say it again, comfort on these seats are through the roof.

The interior on this car is extremely well thought out and comfortable. The design is simply gorgeous; bigger in apperarance than a sport coupe should be, but still sleek and sporty. I cant help but to think of the old Mercedes CLK every time i look at pictures of the s5, in person is not much different...but that was a badass looking ride, and this is taking those lines to a new level.

But...i have an m3...so there is something else very VERY important to me. Performance. Speed and handeling. Without good measures of both, my spot in line for the new m3 will be safe. And here's the facts as i see (and felt) them. This is a more mature ride. The m3 is very raw...from the sound to the straight line acceleration, to the think it and it goes steering. This s5 is not that. But that's not all bad. Let me try to explain...

The "oh shit, didnt mean to give you whiplash" moments just aren't there in the same way that a porsche, m3, or dare I say it, mustang will give you. The power off the line is defintly there, but it's not as violent or shocking. Again, for me anyway, that's not all bad. The s5 is defintly fast, but after 2 years of driving an m3 I've gotten used to a rocket feel. At this point I should note that the HP and torque numbers are superior to the outgoing m3, but BMW numbers always feel and perform much better than is stated.

The handeling is good, almost great. Being used to BMW is a bit of a handicap when stepping into any non-exotic non-porsche sports car so I am a bit used to a pretty high bar with handeling. I like the way it handles, but I am left saying it is "good enough." One thing i did notice was that feedback from the road through the steering wheel was not there the way I am used to, again...not all bad as sometimes, that gets to be annoying.

I liked the shifter, though I did miss 2nd twice in the half hour demo. The shifts are short, the throw is easy, and the clutch is definitly not heavy or light, just right.

Final thoughts; when on my test drive I passed by a 30 something in a new 3 series. He almost veered off the road as he stared and smiled, i thought that was interesting...and the looks of the car are gonna get alot of that. Later in the night, I was driving to dinner and got a appreciative honk and thumbs up when I was back in my m3, but this time from 3 17 year olds. How fitting; this car is not for the person who wants a mustang with status, its more refined and that is good most of the time, and good enough others. All in all, I have to say that this car fits quite nice into a consumer niche of being too old for the finely tuned german muscle car but not quite ready to drive a 5 series crowd. The price, looks, and "good enough" power and handeling may be enough to bring me over to the 4 rings. I have time to figure that out, in the meantime I'll enjoy every whiplash moment I can get.

[Filthy Monkey]

Thanks for the comparison. I agree with you on the Audi's looks - It is gorgeous!! Side by side with the E46, it makes the M3 look reeaally dated, but then, so does the E92 M3. I parked my car beside an E46 M3 in the Canary Wharf car park the other day and the interior, especially, looked like it came from another era.

I must take a test drive in the S5, as I'd love to compare it with the E92. I'm sure it will have a lot of strong points, as Audi seem to be really on the ball these days, to the point where I think BMW are in serious danger of losing out to them in the performance saloon stakes. I dont think there's any chance of the S5 beating the new M3 in a straight fight, but if they ever bring out an RS5 BMW will have a real battle on their hands!

[JerseyBeemer]

It would be great if you went and tested an s5 since you could compare accurately. I agree, i dont think they compare well though. Prices are gonna end up about 20% off, and the power is off by about the same which basically equalls that they are in different classes.

However, given that I for one am in the market and considering both...I guess at least for me, audi has done a good enough job to compete for the market share if not on the track. If I am not alone, then that says an awful lot about what Audi is delivering in terms of total package (design, performance, quality, and value).

[MI6]

Are the S5's out yet? I thought they didn't arrive until November???

[JerseyBeemer]

Demo models hit dealerships this weekend, orders are being taken, dealer told me delivery is 90 days out.

[Stahlgrau]

RS5 details should be interesting when we starting getting them.

[Epacy]

edit: mis-read

[nechronics]

Originally Posted by JerseyBeemer

Later in the night, I was driving to dinner and got a appreciative honk and thumbs up when I was back in my m3

.

[Caravello]

Sounds nice, but it sounds too comfortable which I don't like. I like to have the windows down and sunroof open and to hear street noises and things around me when driving. Keeps me alert and involved. This sounds like it would almost lullaby me to sleep. I'd probably run over a few people while dozing off in these wonderful seats. I remember when I had a very comfortable SUV I took out a fire hydrant.

As for looks, the S5 looks to me like a Volvo and a BMW had a child.

[mkoesel]

Thanks for the write-up. I had no idea the S5s were out and about already. Looks like I need to go drive one...

[lvwirelessguy]

Audi is trying mighty hard to change their image, but to me its too little too late. I had a 2001 S4 & 2001 330i at the same time. The S4 was the faster of the 2, but the 330i was more fun to drive. Audi does not have an understanding of how to make their cars more fun to drive than a BMW.

Plus they pretty much ripped BMW off when it came to the A5 / S5's styling. Even down to the interior layout, especially where their nav screen sits and how it looks.

Audi is just an upscale VW, and that is VW's fault because of how they have marketed the brand and how their dealerships are. Up until a couple years ago the VW / Audi dealership in Las Vegas were sharing the same building. Audi got a tiny showroom, and only one service bay. Now there are 2 VW dealerships here and Audi has their own dealership.

[JEllis]

Its a cool car and impressive... but expensive. This car is comparable to the 335 in performance but is priced to high. As far as price goes the S5 is good competition for the M3 assuming it comes in under 60K.

Jason

[gmund1948]

I really love the looks of the S-5 (no LEDs would be nice)

The car is drop dead gorgeous, the interior is wonderful
and the fit and finish are hard not to love.

I drove My wifes 335 E-93 to the dealership, with a diversion of about
a half an hour on some windy roads.

This is an Autobahn super car, incredibly smooth, and more luxury than the
3 series, If I didn't want an edgy sports car this would be it. Its not as precise as the e-93 into a corner, but it is as smooth as an M5 on the autobahn, this car has a much better ride than the 3 on the bahn, but if definitely feels bigger and more stable at about 200KPH, It is not as much fun in twisty corners as the 335 or my corvette but If I needed a car to drive a long ways this may be the right combo. Think of it as a 5 series BMW coupe
and you will get the Idea.

my 2 cents

[hks786]

Originally Posted by Stahlgrau

RS5 details should be interesting when we starting getting them.

I think the RS5 will be the one bro. Think about it. Some reviews are showing that the RS4 isnt too far off the M3 and some people are still choosing the RS4 over the M3. I think with a new chassis alone the RS5 will put up a better fight.

Also, I'm about 90% sure we can expect a new engine. Some good sources say we can expect a smaller engine w/ forced induction. That makes me think it'll be a 4.0 TFSI based on the new RS6 engine. That would put it at 465bhp and 385 lb/ft torque.

[hks786]

Originally Posted by lvwirelessguy

Plus they pretty much ripped BMW off when it came to the A5 / S5's styling. Even down to the interior layout, especially where their nav screen sits and how it looks.

Bro have you seen the S5 on the road? to me and many others, it looks a class above the E92. The body resembles the E92 in NO way. Not even the roofline. I personally think the S5 looks like a class in between the E92 and 6 Series.

Also, Audi had the Nuvolari Concept years ago. I'm not saying this is true, but if anything, the E92 copied the Nuvolari rear lights. I dont believe that, but I'm just pointing out that there is more of a resemblance between the E92/Nuvolari rear lights than the E92/S5 rear lights. The S5 rear lights dont even look like the Concept much







Also, I'm not sure how the interior is a rip-off off BMW Here's some shots:











Audi clearly has a driver-centric dash and the seats are completely different. Much better IMO. Even the speakers are in different positions

[hks786]

Originally Posted by JEllis

Its a cool car and impressive... but expensive. This car is comparable to the 335 in performance but is priced to high. As far as price goes the S5 is good competition for the M3 assuming it comes in under 60K.

Jason

Yeah it comes in at 55k

[southlight]

Sorry to say that, but we're in the wrong section again. This topic should be in the "Other Cars" or in the "E46 M3" section. So, again, mover please

Best regards, south

[Technic]

Originally Posted by JEllis

Its a cool car and impressive... but expensive. This car is comparable to the 335 in performance but is priced to high. As far as price goes the S5 is good competition for the M3 assuming it comes in under 60K.

Jason

The base price of the S5 is around $51,000 (according to the Audi Driving Experience event of this weeked on Miami Speedway)... with the amount of standard options, the V8 and the Quattro its price is actually in line with a 335i Sport/Premium/Cold package...

[JerseyBeemer]

Originally Posted by gmund1948

This is an Autobahn super car, incredibly smooth, and more luxury than the
3 series, If I didn't want an edgy sports car this would be it. Its not as precise as the e-93 into a corner, but it is as smooth as an M5 on the autobahn, this car has a much better ride than the 3 on the bahn, but if definitely feels bigger and more stable at about 200KPH, It is not as much fun in twisty corners as the 335 or my corvette but If I needed a car to drive a long ways this may be the right combo. Think of it as a 5 series BMW coupe
and you will get the Idea.

This is really accurate. More and more I'm agreeing with this and with NKS's comment that this is more of a 6 series competitor than anything else. There's 1 main reason it hasn't been compared to the 6 series in any mags...price. If that is taken out of the equation the 2 cars start to line up nicely. Of course...if you add price back in...and quattro...we have a clear winner.

With all that said, if I decide to buy an s5, there is no doubt in my mind that I am giving up a performace variable that is hard for anyone who hasn't owned a bmw to understand. Worst case scenario, I drive it for a year or two and trade it in for an m3 if I really feel like it is lacking.

[mkoesel]

Originally Posted by Technic

The base price of the S5 is around $51,000 (according to the Audi Driving Experience event of this weeked on Miami Speedway)... with the amount of standard options, the V8 and the Quattro its price is actually in line with a 335i Sport/Premium/Cold package...

True, but you can get a 40k 335i on ED (I have one). It's not near loaded, but it still drives as good as any other 335i, which is the most important part.

If the M3 comes in at, say $57k, it will be the better buy than the S5, most likely. I say this having driven neither yet, so I may change my mind. For 10k more, the S5 will have to be a lot better than a 335i for me to consider it. Reason is, if I decide against the M3, the 335i becomes the new performance/dollar benchmark to beat.

[Technic]

Originally Posted by mkoesel

True, but you can get a 40k 335i on ED (I have one). It's not near loaded, but it still drives as good as any other 335i, which is the most important part.

If the M3 comes in at, say $57k, it will be the better buy than the S5, most likely. I say this having driven neither yet, so I may change my mind. For 10k more, the S5 will have to be a lot better than a 335i for me to consider it. Reason is, if I decide against the M3, the 335i becomes the new performance/dollar benchmark to beat.

The point was the term "expensive" of the S5 compared with the 335i equipment-wise. Of course, if you start adding ED, Full maintenance and any discounts and the proposition becomes better towards the 335i... but still you are talking about $45,000 vs. $50,000 in the best case. And that's while the S5 is hot: give the S5 six months and the discounts will be there.

I bet that the same point of view that you have about the S5 being "expensive" compared with the 335i, a lot of people will think the same when the M3 finally shows up in the USA: the M3 will be "expensive" compared with the S5. But in this case, the S5 is not actually the M3 competitor, it is the RS5. Audi seems to have positioned the A5/S5/RS5 just a little above in price (but with much more equipment standard) of each 3 Series Coupe version in the USA; A5/328i, S5/335i, RS5/M3.

Dynamically, the S5 arguably is not as rewarding as the 335i (hell, my E46 M3 handles much better; I've driven all three cars) but it is damn close, probably even the best compromise for a lot of potential customers that like a little less sharpness with the same impressive overall performance as the 335i. But for sure the sucker is simply stunning inside and out. Much more than any E92, especially its sorry ass interior, IMO.

[mkoesel]

Originally Posted by Technic

The point was the term "expensive" of the S5 compared with the 335i equipment-wise. Of course, if you start adding ED, Full maintenance and any discounts and the proposition becomes better towards the 335i... but still you are talking about $45,000 vs. $50,000 in the best case. And that's while the S5 is hot: give the S5 six months and the discounts will be there.

Maybe, I honestly don't know what equipment the S5 comes with standard. But I do know that the 335i I have, as equipped @ 40k, lacks nothing I need. That doesn't mean there is some great features of the S5 that I would see and say "wow, I gotta have that!" though.

I am curious what the S5 has standard that the 335i does not. I suppose I will have to look that up. If you want, though, I would not care if you gave a quick list.

But in this case, the S5 is not actually the M3 competitor, it is the RS5. Audi seems to have positioned the A5/S5/RS5 just a little above in price (but with much more equipment standard) of each 3 Series Coupe version in the USA; A5/328i, S5/335i, RS5/M3.

Whoa, I don't even know how to begin talking about the RS5 as a real option. That car is so totally vapor right now, its not even on the radar. It'll be a great car I'm sure - that arrives to market long, long after I have made my purchase. I am not even convinced a B8 RS5 will exist. It might be a B8.5 or B9 by the time it arrives. Unless you've got some info I don't know about.

Dynamically, the S5 arguably is not as rewarding as the 335i...

That's the part I care most about.

I will definitely give the S5 a chance though. I am going to test drive one ASAP.