Camshafts

[PrinceMiro]

Has anyone installed camshafts themselves? I'm installing zhp cams in my car and ran into an issue. Thanks.

[GuidoK]

Yes I've installed them myself (schrick), but I already saw your post on e46fanatic.
Can't you just tap the sleeve in place (insert bolt and tap on bolt, or maybe tap on the sleeve).
I have no idea how these sleeves are wedged in the cilinder head. Strange that it came loose this way. (although there's a lot of tension on the cam lobes.) Does the sleeve have the threads for the bolt or are they in the head itself?

When I look at this they seem to be loose parts (dowels):
http://bmwfans.info/parts/catalog/E8...cylinder_head/

The only function I can understand is that they fit and align the upper part to the lower part, but that means that all dowels should be slightly raised.

Don't the zhp cams/timing confuse the DME? Or do you have a tune for that?

[PrinceMiro]

I thought the sleeve was threaded to receive the studs. None of the other ones are raised. What brought my attention to it was that when I tried to tighten the journal cap nut on this stud, it just kept turning and more stud threads would continue to come up though the nut. So I assumed that the more I tightened, the more that sleeve was pulled up. I'm not certain though. It's number 5 in that diagram right? Yes I have a tune to work well with the cams.

[PrinceMiro]

I tried to hammer it down by the way. It wouldn't budge. I put a smaller diameter screw through it with the hex head of the screw resting on the brim of the dowel and started hammering the screw head with a rubber mallet. Nothing.

[GuidoK]

Originally Posted by PrinceMiro

It's number 5 in that diagram right?

I thought it would be number 8.
Number 5: valve guide sounds something in which the valve stem fits.
But number 8 is only used 4 times, so it looks like they only go on each side of a bearing ledge and are only used to align the ledge on the head.. So that probably isn't it either....

For persons who don't know what were talking about: here is the info for Miro's dilemma:
http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthr...1#post15602571
one of the sleeves in which the stud bolts are fastened (stud bolts for the camshaft bearing ledge/camshaft bearing caps) came loose.


There is a small indentation in the sleeve, so there may be a tool in existence somewhere that fits in the sleeve and has a notch that grips the indentation and it's rotated back into the head? I really don't know.

Maybe you can ask a machines shop that also does cilinder head resurfacing.

[PrinceMiro]

Found out what's wrong. That dowel is supposed to stick out. There are four of them and they're used to correctly position the intake and exhaust valleys. The issue is the threads in the head were stripped. When I pulled out the stud yesterday, I never wiped the oil off to get a better look. Today I took the stud off, wiped the oil off, and examined it. The threads from the head were stripped off and were still on the stud. So it looks like I'll be using timeserts.

[pokeybritches]

Ouch. Good luck with it. I'm following this thread just out of curiosity.

[GuidoK]

Completely stripped just because your cam rotated due to the valve spring pressure?
That's pretty unfortunate. I didn't kown something like that could happen that easily. A lot of force was involved then....

I had no issues installing the cams (the schrick cams even have longer lobes/more valvelift). That one nut is a bit hard to get on though I remember that. On the intake side it was I think. I applied little pressure on the bearing cap with one nut installed and the 2nd nut just starts to grip the thread and then it's straight foreward.

I spent more time figuring out a nice way how to get the helix gears aligned (with schrick you just get the cams, without the helix gears installed)

[PrinceMiro]

Originally Posted by GuidoK

Completely stripped just because your cam rotated due to the valve spring pressure?
That's pretty unfortunate. I didn't kown something like that could happen that easily. A lot of force was involved then....

I had no issues installing the cams (the schrick cams even have longer lobes/more valvelift). That one nut is a bit hard to get on though I remember that. On the intake side it was I think. I applied little pressure on the bearing cap with one nut installed and the 2nd nut just starts to grip the thread and then it's straight foreward.

I spent more time figuring out a nice way how to get the helix gears aligned (with schrick you just get the cams, without the helix gears installed)

When I researched my options, I found out that stripped head threads is a common issue on BMW aluminum heads. However, it's usually the head bolt threads that are an issue. I may be the only person who's had an issue with the head threads for the cam bearing journal stud.

With regards to installation of the cams, I got the exhaust side on with some difficulty. However, when using the method here: http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthr...ght=helix+tool , I couldn't get the intake shaft on for the life of me. After orienting the intake camshaft about 40 degrees counterclockwise (when looking at the rear of the car), I got the nuts on both studs at journal bearing E4 and one nut on E6, but no matter how much force I used or what I did, it was impossible to get a nut on the other E6 stud (regardless of how much tried to push down or rotate the camshaft back and forth). That's why I tried to use the method that has the first set of lobes (E2) fully open after you get a few threads on the studs of E2. But like an idiot, I forgot that I had to hold the camshaft in this position and let go of the wrench, allowing the camshaft to snap back into position.

Any advice you have would be greatly appreciated.

[GuidoK]

Originally Posted by PrinceMiro

Any advice you have would be greatly appreciated.

Well if the threads are stripped you have to do something about that.
The sleeve that is sticking out: can you remove that?
If you either use timeserts or helicoils that has to come out. maybe if you use a helicoil you can re-insert it; it depends on if the tap for the helicoil is larger than the outside diameter from the sleeve. With a timesert you can porbably not (it's a complete threaded bushing, but probably stronger).

There's no way that you can carefully patch up the threads by retapping them slightly? And then maybe use a very strong (red) loctite to lock the stud in place? I know that aluminium is a very weak material but loctite has an extremely large product line up (maybe call them to get the right one, be sure to tell them it has to be heat resistant +/-150 deg C)
You can always try this before you get more destructive when placing a timesert or helicoil.

Regarding the installation I think you can get the cam down a bit (at E6) by tightening the E4 nuts a bit (and maybe loosening e1). Maybe even installing which nut first (the left or right one) dan make a slight difference. You just have to get the nut to grip 1/8 or a turn or so.
I remember that was the hardest part but I didn't have a lot of problems with that. I installed them on my own (no help from others) so it didn't take excessive force.

If you're going to loctite the studs in place you can raise the stud by 0,5mm or so, so you won't have the problem again.

[pokeybritches]

Maybe try towing the car to a good shop and let them fix it. I believe MaxPSI and VAC are somewhat local to you.

[Z4inAZ]

Originally Posted by pokeybritches

Maybe try towing the car to a good shop and let them fix it. I believe MaxPSI and VAC are somewhat local to you.

This.

Unfortunately, I really feel as if this kind of engine work is either... you know how to fix it, and can fix it, or you dont. Cam swaps are one thing, repairing that sleeve is a whole 'nother can of worms.

[PrinceMiro]

Originally Posted by GuidoK

Well if the threads are stripped you have to do something about that.
The sleeve that is sticking out: can you remove that?
If you either use timeserts or helicoils that has to come out. maybe if you use a helicoil you can re-insert it; it depends on if the tap for the helicoil is larger than the outside diameter from the sleeve. With a timesert you can porbably not (it's a complete threaded bushing, but probably stronger).

There's no way that you can carefully patch up the threads by retapping them slightly? And then maybe use a very strong (red) loctite to lock the stud in place? I know that aluminium is a very weak material but loctite has an extremely large product line up (maybe call them to get the right one, be sure to tell them it has to be heat resistant +/-150 deg C)
You can always try this before you get more destructive when placing a timesert or helicoil.

Regarding the installation I think you can get the cam down a bit (at E6) by tightening the E4 nuts a bit (and maybe loosening e1). Maybe even installing which nut first (the left or right one) dan make a slight difference. You just have to get the nut to grip 1/8 or a turn or so.
I remember that was the hardest part but I didn't have a lot of problems with that. I installed them on my own (no help from others) so it didn't take excessive force.

If you're going to loctite the studs in place you can raise the stud by 0,5mm or so, so you won't have the problem again.

The E1 cap was on, but without any nuts tightened on its studs. I guess I'll try again.

With regards to the dowel that you saw in the pictures that sticks out, I've already removed it. Extremely easy to remove. I bought a new one because I've deformed the original one in the process. I spoke to someone about the time-serts and we determined it should work just fine. The hole has 2 diameters: one sized for the dowel and the other sized for the stud. The depth of the dowel hole is 5mm. The depth of the stud hole is 15mm. So the total depth of the entire bore is 20 mm. I'll be using the 14mm time-sert, which will require me to drill the stud hole 20mm (i.e., an extra 5mm, which is insignificant). The time-sert will then fit fine and the dowel will be reinstalled right over it without any issues.

Originally Posted by pokeybritches

Maybe try towing the car to a good shop and let them fix it. I believe MaxPSI and VAC are somewhat local to you.

I thought about that, but this isn't a head bolt thread. It's not as significant. It's important of course, which is why I'm taking this seriously, but it definitely won't be under an incredible amount of strain. There are 6 other journal bearings holding the camshaft down; and the one with the problem has an unscathed stud. I'm not saying the time-sert won't be as good or better than before. I'm saying that I'm confident in this fix for many reasons, one of which is that there are other studs that serve to hold the camshaft down.

Originally Posted by Z4inAZ

This.

Unfortunately, I really feel as if this kind of engine work is either... you know how to fix it, and can fix it, or you dont. Cam swaps are one thing, repairing that sleeve is a whole 'nother can of worms.

It's not the sleeve. That was my mistake. It's the threads in the head (as I'm sure you can tell from the explanations above). This fix is relatively straightforward. I even purchased a drill guide and a thread guide so that my hole and my threads are 100% straight. Believe me, I'm taking every necessary precaution.

[GuidoK]

Originally Posted by PrinceMiro

The time-sert will then fit fine and the dowel will be reinstalled right over it without any issues.

So the hole you have to drill&tap for the timesert is smaller than the dowel? (I mean the diameter and not the depth)
Then that's the way to go.
But how are you going to solve the problem with the time sert collar?
Can the counterbore go deep enough? I always thought that the counterbore can only go as deep as the collar of the timesert. (I have some experience with timeserts but not in this type of installation).
Maybe if the counterbore already fits in the dowel hole then it might work.

[Z4inAZ]

I am nervous for you. I hope it works out... best of luck to a speedy repair!

[PrinceMiro]

Originally Posted by GuidoK

So the hole you have to drill&tap for the timesert is smaller than the dowel? (I mean the diameter and not the depth)
Then that's the way to go.
But how are you going to solve the problem with the time sert collar?
Can the counterbore go deep enough? I always thought that the counterbore can only go as deep as the collar of the timesert. (I have some experience with timeserts but not in this type of installation).
Maybe if the counterbore already fits in the dowel hole then it might work.

The counterbore will be at the beginning of the smaller diameter (the stud) hole. So, the timesert will sit flush with the shoulder on which the dowel rests. If you look at this image (not the best I know): The timesert would be inserted into the smaller diameter hole and the collar of the timesert would basically be flush with the shoulder (i.e., the brim of the smaller diameter hole). The counterbore hole diameter is smaller than the dowel hole diameter. So it works out. The dowel will then sit right on top of the collor/shoulder.

Originally Posted by Z4inAZ

I am nervous for you. I hope it works out... best of luck to a speedy repair!

Thanks!

[PrinceMiro]

I've thrown in the towel. While installing the time-sert, the driver broke in the hole. I wasn't even holding the ratchet at its end. So it wasn't even that much torque. Anyway, I had the car towed to the guys at MaximumPsi in Linden, NJ. They'll be completing all of the work for me. I've read a lot of good things about those guys. So fingers crossed.

[GuidoK]

That's bad luck. But I don't think a ratchet is the proper tool for the supplied bore, tap or driver. You need a tap wrench for that so you can carefully direct the force (very little force neccesary)

[PrinceMiro]

Originally Posted by GuidoK

That's bad luck. But I don't think a ratchet is the proper tool for the supplied bore, tap or driver. You need a tap wrench for that so you can carefully direct the force (very little force neccesary)

I have 2. One with short handles and another with long handles. There was no room to turn either in that small area. So I was forced to use a ratchet. But because I know I needed to use little torque, I held the ratchet about 1" from the ratchet head.

[GuidoK]

ah right, I understand.

[PrinceMiro]

Picking the car up today!! Incredibly excited!

[pokeybritches]

Congrats! What was the cost?