Valve cleaning leads to new block?

[drewh130]

So I had my valves cleaned under cpo warranty about a month ago. When I picked up the car i immediately noticed a slight engine tick/knock.

I returned the car to the dealer the next day and was able to reproduce the noise to the tech. He thought it was coming from the transmission.

Soooo...they pull the tranny, take it apart, and find nothing wrong. They then pull the engine and completely disassemble it. They tracked the noise to the #5 cylinder. Apparently there was some play with it.

I went in to get something out of the trunk and what I saw made me a little squeamish. The engine bay was completely empty. My block was sitting on a rack and the pistons etc. were sitting in a cart. All of the various engine/exhaust components were sitting in a pile in the corner. It was actually pretty cool to see the internals. I couldn’t believe how clean everything looked. I took some pictures that I'll post later.

Has anyone else experienced anything like this? It just doesn’t seem very typical. I’ve had a loaner for about a month now and I want my car back!!!

[stevenc]

Possible they didnt have the valves closed during blasting and got media into the cylinders..

[ragingpanda]

Originally Posted by stevenc

Possible they didnt have the valves closed during blasting and got media into the cylinders..

I am betting on this as well.

[RimasRS]

Originally Posted by stevenc

Possible they didnt have the valves closed during blasting and got media into the cylinders..

How do they do that I mean how to close the valves? Crank engine?

[stevenc]

You have to rotate the engine so that each cylinder has its valves closed before blasting...

[Focusedintntions]

Pictures!!!

[drewh130]

pictures added

[NYC6]

Sorry to hear of your problem. This is a dealer mistake. To tell the truth I would be hesitant to take the rebuilt plant. With your pics and documentation you have a case for a new engine. If you press it, I bet they'll do it. Good luck either way. Keep us updated.

[Dackelone]

Originally Posted by NYC6

Sorry to hear of your problem. This is a dealer mistake. To tell the truth I would be hesitant to take the rebuilt plant. With your pics and documentation you have a case for a new engine. If you press it, I bet they'll do it. Good luck either way. Keep us updated.

I don't think BMW would LET a dealer rebuild any of their engines. That has been their policy for years... bc too many techs screw the rebuild up! That goes for trannys too. It is cheaper and better(more costs effective) for the customer to get a factory rebuilt engine direct from BMW AG. The tech simply pulls out the old engine and installs the new(rebuilt) engine.

Yes, it sounds like the tech screwed the pooch on this carbon cleaning job. It is probably why he tore the engine down... so he would know what HE did wrong. Just my best guess though.

[ParkNuts]

It's a shame you have to deal with all this but very cool pics!

[NYC6]

Originally Posted by Dackelone

I don't think BMW would LET a dealer rebuild any of their engines. That has been their policy for years... bc too many techs screw the rebuild up! That goes for trannys too. It is cheaper and better(more costs effective) for the customer to get a factory rebuilt engine direct from BMW AG. The tech simply pulls out the old engine and installs the new(rebuilt) engine.

Yes, it sounds like the tech screwed the pooch on this carbon cleaning job. It is probably why he tore the engine down... so he would know what HE did wrong. Just my best guess though.

That makes sense. Hopefully it is apart so they can figured out what happened(if they dont know already). I guess we'll find out soon when the OP joins us and lets us know whats going on.

[delta-9-ginseng]

Originally Posted by Dackelone

I don't think BMW would LET a dealer rebuild any of their engines. That has been their policy for years... bc too many techs screw the rebuild up! That goes for trannys too. It is cheaper and better(more costs effective) for the customer to get a factory rebuilt engine direct from BMW AG. The tech simply pulls out the old engine and installs the new(rebuilt) engine.

Yes, it sounds like the tech screwed the pooch on this carbon cleaning job. It is probably why he tore the engine down... so he would know what HE did wrong. Just my best guess though.

Dack, I also have a 2008 535i. Long story short, I was coming down a mountain road when I hit a huge rock on the road causing damage to the transmission and mechanotronics of the car. I took the car to the dealer where they recommended we should replace the entire mechanotronics unit and refill the entire transmission oil (because of a huge leak). Now, if I go with this, is their a possibility the car would have problems down the road by improper installation or negligence by the tech? Or is what we are referring to in this thread look like a much bigger and convoluted job.

Full story of my thread can be found here:

http://forums.5series.net/topic/1248...3#entry1456373

Thanks for the advice and sorry for thread jack!

[drewh130]

the tech told me that he took measurements of the cylinder and sleeve and was sending them to BMW NA. It was then going to be up to them to make the call. From what he was saying it sounded like he thought they were going to get a new bottom end and then put everything else back on. I'll keep ya'll posted.

[Dackelone]

Originally Posted by delta-9-ginseng

Dack, I also have a 2008 535i. Long story short, I was coming down a mountain road when I hit a huge rock on the road causing damage to the transmission and mechanotronics of the car. I took the car to the dealer where they recommended we should replace the entire mechanotronics unit and refill the entire transmission oil (because of a huge leak). Now, if I go with this, is their a possibility the car would have problems down the road by improper installation or negligence by the tech? Or is what we are referring to in this thread look like a much bigger and convoluted job.

Full story of my thread can be found here:

http://forums.5series.net/topic/1248...3#entry1456373

Thanks for the advice and sorry for thread jack!

I think you should ask a dealer to be sure. But it was my understanding that since the 1990's BMW did not allow its dealer to repair internal parts of the engine or trans. Replacing an oil pan for a tranny or engine, yes. But not overhaul an engine or rebuild a tranny.


Dack

[drewh130]

Originally Posted by Dackelone

I think you should ask a dealer to be sure. But it was my understanding that since the 1990's BMW did not allow its dealer to repair internal parts of the engine or trans. Replacing an oil pan for a tranny or engine, yes. But not overhaul an engine or rebuild a tranny.


Dack

dont a lot of the 328i, 128i guys get new blocks to solve the lifter tick issue? I'm pretty sure they put a new block in my father in laws 328i. BMW also but a new block in my dads 1995 530i for the gas etching issue.

[Dackelone]

Originally Posted by drewh130

dont a lot of the 328i, 128i guys get new blocks to solve the lifter tick issue? I'm pretty sure they put a new block in my father in laws 328i. BMW also but a new block in my dads 1995 530i for the gas etching issue.

Noop. BMW for a time was replacing the cylinder heads for that. The new (& improved) cylinder head design had a check valve which did not let the oil drain from the hydraulic valve lifters. But soon even those engines developed a valve tick w/some miles. So now BMW says just to live with it. Or they get BMW to lemon the car.

[drewh130]

Originally Posted by Dackelone

Noop. BMW for a time was replacing the cylinder heads for that. The new (& improved) cylinder head design had a check valve which did not let the oil drain from the hydraulic valve lifters. But soon even those engines developed a valve tick w/some miles. So now BMW says just to live with it. Or they get BMW to lemon the car.

I guess my point was they they do rebuild engines with new blocks. I'm guessing the blocks are shipped with all of the internals in place.

[Sindarin]

Originally Posted by Dackelone

I don't think BMW would LET a dealer rebuild any of their engines. That has been their policy for years... bc too many techs screw the rebuild up! That goes for trannys too. It is cheaper and better(more costs effective) for the customer to get a factory rebuilt engine direct from BMW AG. The tech simply pulls out the old engine and installs the new(rebuilt) engine.

Nope. I've rebuilt a couple engines from crankshaft up, latest being a S65. BMW's policy, at least in the states, is the 75% rule. If the cost of the repair is cheaper then 75% of complete replacement, you fix it.

Transmissions for the most part are still replaced though, depending on cause of failure.

[Sindarin]

Originally Posted by Dackelone

Noop. BMW for a time was replacing the cylinder heads for that. The new (& improved) cylinder head design had a check valve which did not let the oil drain from the hydraulic valve lifters. But soon even those engines developed a valve tick w/some miles. So now BMW says just to live with it. Or they get BMW to lemon the car.

There are improved exhaust roller drag levers available that have an air bleed hole in them. Having done numerous exhaust hydraulic valve adjusters with updated roller drag levers I have not seen one come back.

[drewh130]

Originally Posted by Sindarin

Nope. I've rebuilt a couple engines from crankshaft up, latest being a S65. BMW's policy, at least in the states, is the 75% rule. If the cost of the repair is cheaper then 75% of complete replacement, you fix it.

Transmissions for the most part are still replaced though, depending on cause of failure.

Thanks for commenting! Do you know if I will have to go through a break in period with the rebuilt engine/new block? Should I be worried about the reliability now? I was planning on keeping this car for a long time..

[Dackelone]

Originally Posted by Sindarin

Nope. I've rebuilt a couple engines from crankshaft up, latest being a S65. BMW's policy, at least in the states, is the 75% rule. If the cost of the repair is cheaper then 75% of complete replacement, you fix it.

Transmissions for the most part are still replaced though, depending on cause of failure.

Thanks for posting! This is news to me.

[DriveHard]

Originally Posted by Sindarin

Nope. I've rebuilt a couple engines from crankshaft up, latest being a S65. BMW's policy, at least in the states, is the 75% rule. If the cost of the repair is cheaper then 75% of complete replacement, you fix it.

Transmissions for the most part are still replaced though, depending on cause of failure.

Originally Posted by Dackelone

Thanks for posting! This is news to me.

Dack, this is a true statement.. It does happen, but depending on the damage the replacement usually is cheaper then the rebuild. Individual internal parts are very expensive. the 75% rule usually wins, and as far as i was always concerned, the replacement was the way to go as it avoided the human error factor..

that dealer is hoping the cylinder bore is sufficiently out of round to replace it, but even then im thinking the head is still good so the OP will end up with a new short block ( bmws version is a bare block with a set of fitted pistons and rings.) everything else gets transferred over..its also true they need an ok to do either, hence the wait but it usually takes only a day or so..

kudos to the tech for the clean tear down.. although its an explosion of fluids and parts when it actually happens.. they cleaned up nicely for the visit of the OP im sure

in the end i think the OP will be ok.... just taking way toooooo long...