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[thothtp]

This is a long post, so the too long didn't read is between the lines partway down, but thought I would give a little background.

After searching and reading about a thousand threads here and everywhere else, I decided to purchase a set of Breyton GTS-Rs with Michelin Pilot Super Sports in 225-40-18, and 255-35-18. Unfortunately, the rear Breytons are back ordered till the 27th, so after agonizing over the decision for so long and then finally making up my mind, I am back to being able to change my mind again, and am now having second thoughts. I have not found the exact circumstances I am looking for in any other threads, so I thought I would make one and ask for recommendations.

I have a 135i that is daily driven to work. I also just did my first autocross on it this last weekend, and I am definitely hooked. I also plan to do at least one HPDE at Watkins Glen, probably near the end of August.

I know that I want to keep the car in SCCA Stock class for now, and our region has a very large road tire class that I would like to enter. So that leads me to the main question:


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What is my best option for stock size (18x7.5 front 18x8.5 back) wheels, and what is my best option for model and size of tires that are 140 treadwear or higher, that can be driven relatively comfortably on the street, and are very good for autocross, but will stand up to the punishment of a two day HPDE.
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I know the best option is a dedicated set of track wheels and tires, but that is not in the budget at the moment, and I really want some new dark colored wheels to daily drive to deal with the brake dust. So I need a one size fits all that will work as well as it can. I originally decided on the Star Specs, but the road noise and low life had me a little concerned. Then I found out about the Super Sports, and decided on those, but I still don't know if that's the right choice for autocross. Then I happened to notice the Hankook RS3's, which I know little about but sound great as well. I can put up with road noise if they are the best tire, but if I can avoid it and still have 98% of the performance, great. I am not to concerned about price of the tires, since to me the $50 difference between Star Specs and PSS's right now is nothing compared to the $2400 I am dropping in the first place.

I am also wondering about sizes, I would like to do a more square setup to tame some of the understeer, but being that I can't do camber plates in stock and it's a daily driver that can't rub, I don't think I can get much more then 225's on the front, and 225 in the back is just too narrow to get the power down. Am I best off sticking with 225-255 and taming the understeer with my driving? Unfortunately I can't get any of the tires I am looking at in a 245-35-18. Would 245-40-18 work?

Finally, I am concerned about the durability of the Breytons as there are a lot of potholes here in the snow belt, but do I have any other decent choice in stock sizes? Preferably with an anthracite or black finish?


I know this is a long post, but I needed to get all the info out there to make the right decision. Thanks for sticking with it, and thanks for the information!

[Xaeryan]

I'll give the tire questions a shot. Based on the data from the last Nationals, it seems the Direzzas are the best autocross street tire for the heavier cars of STU class (us). Nearly every competitor wore the Direzzas. They are noisy (not at first, but once they wear a bit), but very cheap (special offer right now on TR), comfortable, and grip amazingly both wet or dry. Along with autocrossing them, I had them at The Glen for two days on a wet track, and they felt almost as sticky as they do in the dry.
The other top-crop tires for street tire autocrossing are Toyo Proxes R1R (won every other ST class), Bridgestone RE-11, Hankook RS-3, Kumho Ecsta XS, Yoko Advan AD08s. Some other members here have advised me that the RS-3s are doing well in autocrossing (and they have already been doing great in the lighter-car street touring classes), but I still think the Direzzas will be the tire to beat in STU. I'm speculating here, but I think although they may have similar or even less grip than some of the others, their stiffer sidewalls work better with heavy cars.

As for fitment, the 225/255 is the highest you'll want to go in a staggered setup if you're stock without rubbing. I ran this in Direzzas with no rubbing whatsoever, and they are a pretty wide tire. I switched to 235/265 and added a touch more negative camber with M3 arms, modified the fenders a bit (cut the plastic joint, rolled them slightly) and they still rub, albeit very slightly and only under certain maneuvers. It's borderline too much tire on a 7.5" rim anyway, but I still think it grips a little better than the 225s did.

I only drive my car lightly, so my wear comparison may be a bit off, but I've done 2 HPDEs, and 4 autocrosses, and the tires are barely worn. YMMV.

Although I have no firsthand experience with them, the PSS are supposed to provide great grip at better wear rates, but in testing they are still not as sticky as the top tires listed above. They're more well known for their overall quality (comfort, wear, wet/dry grip, noise) than overall grip levels. So it depends; do you want to start off trying to be competitive and live with some added noise/wear? Or just dipping your feet in until you get some more experience?

Hope that helps some.

[thothtp]

Thanks for the reply, that does help a lot. Have there been any definitive tests done with a PSS vs the Star Specs? Or at least someone that has autocrossed both with the same car? I have been looking but I can't find anything. I find it nearly impossible to believe that the PSS are as sticky, but some people say they are, because of the new technology. I wish I knew how close they are, because quiet and treadlife would be worth a negligible loss in grip, especially for a new driver where it matters less, if that's really the way it is.

The other concern is with the camber deficiency will I be shredding Star Specs really quickly, whereas another tire like the PSS with a more rounded shoulder would last better? I have an E93 M3 swaybar, which helps, but I still managed to torch the outside edges of my runflats pretty bad in one day heh.

Also, just how loud are they on a 1er? I have worn stock run flats right now, and never notice the noise, I honestly don't know if I would notice or if I would be climbing the walls going down the highway.

Finally, would a 245/40 work instead of the 245/35 stock or 255/30 everyone uses? Would I be better off with the 245 in the rear to combat understeer?

[Xaeryan]

Originally Posted by thothtp

Thanks for the reply, that does help a lot. Have there been any definitive tests done with a PSS vs the Star Specs? Or at least someone that has autocrossed both with the same car? I have been looking but I can't find anything. I find it nearly impossible to believe that the PSS are as sticky, but some people say they are, because of the new technology. I wish I knew how close they are, because quiet and treadlife would be worth a negligible loss in grip, especially for a new driver where it matters less, if that's really the way it is.

The other concern is with the camber deficiency will I be shredding Star Specs really quickly, whereas another tire like the PSS with a more rounded shoulder would last better? I have an E93 M3 swaybar, which helps, but I still managed to torch the outside edges of my runflats pretty bad in one day heh.

Might be worth giving them a shot and letting the rest of us know how they hold up on the 1?

Originally Posted by thothtp

Also, just how loud are they on a 1er? I have worn stock run flats right now, and never notice the noise, I honestly don't know if I would notice or if I would be climbing the walls going down the highway.

It's hard to quantify this absolutely, they make a bit of a deep hum, noticeable for me, but certainly not unbearable. It's only on the highway that I ever notice it. The radio on at low volume drowns it out.

Originally Posted by thothtp

Finally, would a 245/40 work instead of the 245/35 stock or 255/30 everyone uses? Would I be better off with the 245 in the rear to combat understeer?

Haven't tried this setup, but I combat understeer at autocrosses using tire pressures instead. My preference is higher pressures out back to provoke some rotation on braking/turn in. This way I still have big fatties out back for drag racing Priuses.