Track wheels, need help

[mpower03]

Alright guys, i just started tracking my m coupe and i must say im addicted now! but i need to do something with my wheels and tires. I went with my 19s and hankook v12 and they were great. but i want to go with a smaller set of wheels so that they are lighter and tires cheaper. I would like to go 17s or 18s. leaning toward 17s. i plan on running star specs for these wheels. and would prefer a square setup or close to square.What do you guys know will work? Thanks!

[Endless619]

I would go with a lightweight set of 18s and go with an R compound tire.. I ran the ADVAN AO32R's back in the day on my NSX and S2000 and loved them. Now I daily drive my M cars and love quiet tires.. lol oh and since I live in the PNW, I like tires that do well in all weather!!!!



On my S2000....

[Finnegan]

Hmm, I'm a track noob (5 days), but as I understand it R-comps are not a great idea for us noob guys as it's too easy to get into bad habits. At least that I've heard from instructors and track veterans. I'm no expert though.

Given the price of Star Specs at the moment, I'd look at Nitto NT05s (street), and Apex lightweight wheels. My race shop recommended these wheels, and lots of folks here like them. 17" and 18" fitments for the Z4M available.

Take a look at Beta's tire thread.

[Endless619]

Originally Posted by Finnegan

Hmm, I'm a track noob (5 days), but as I understand it R-comps are not a great idea for us noob guys as it's too easy to get into bad habits. At least that I've heard from instructors and track veterans. I'm no expert though.

Given the price of Star Specs at the moment, I'd look at Nitto NT05s (street), and Apex lightweight wheels. My race shop recommended these wheels, and lots of folks here like them. 17" and 18" fitments for the Z4M available.

Take a look at Beta's tire thread.

I had dozens of track days under my belt when I was in my twenties and loved these. I am not a nitto fan at all. Too many horror stories with those tires over the years. I wont go there. You can start out on something less aggressive..Street tires are fine. Learn your limits with everyday tires...then move to the R's.

BTW for the younger crowd, whatever you think, these tires are not an all weather tire and absoluetly suck in the rain/snow and arent good for daily driving here in the PNW. lol I had my lightweight Work 16s on my S2000 and for daily driving I had all weather tires on my ASM Spec Prodrives.

[mpower03]

Originally Posted by Finnegan

Hmm, I'm a track noob (5 days), but as I understand it R-comps are not a great idea for us noob guys as it's too easy to get into bad habits. At least that I've heard from instructors and track veterans. I'm no expert though.

Given the price of Star Specs at the moment, I'd look at Nitto NT05s (street), and Apex lightweight wheels. My race shop recommended these wheels, and lots of folks here like them. 17" and 18" fitments for the Z4M available.

Take a look at Beta's tire thread.

thats what i heard about running r compounds. I planned on running street tires and wearing those out and then replacing them with r compounds. ill look into nt05s some more.

[boondocksaint]

Get a lot more experience before switching to R-Comps.

For a track wheel, my plan (once I buy a house) is to get a set of Enkei NT03+Ms in 18x8.5 and 18x10. Squared setup is nice and all, but with proper camber you'll be fine. The staggered setup is more ideal for newer track drivers (in my opinion) because it defaults to understeer. Squaring the setup is going to make the car even more likely to scorpion with bad throttle control.

Star Specs, RE-11s, V100s, NT05s, whatever. Just get street tires. R-Comps cover up bad habits that street tires don't. You'll be better in the long run if you stay on street tires for a while.

But that's my opinion. Just echoing what was said above.

[inTgr8r]

^whs +1

[mpower03]

Originally Posted by boondocksaint

Get a lot more experience before switching to R-Comps.

For a track wheel, my plan (once I buy a house) is to get a set of Enkei NT03+Ms in 18x8.5 and 18x10. Squared setup is nice and all, but with proper camber you'll be fine. The staggered setup is more ideal for newer track drivers (in my opinion) because it defaults to understeer. Squaring the setup is going to make the car even more likely to scorpion with bad throttle control.

Star Specs, RE-11s, V100s, NT05s, whatever. Just get street tires. R-Comps cover up bad habits that street tires don't. You'll be better in the long run if you stay on street tires for a while.

But that's my opinion. Just echoing what was said above.

thanks for all your advice! i wasnt planning to switch to r compounds for a while as the tires i buy are going to take a while to wear out as they will be track only tires. the only reason why i wanted to do a square setuop was for rotational purposes and because i had experienced understeer in a spot of the track, i guess i could get an alignment done and slow down in that spot.

[mpower03]

also why the 18's over the 17's?

[Endless619]

Originally Posted by mpower03

thanks for all your advice! i wasnt planning to switch to r compounds for a while as the tires i buy are going to take a while to wear out as they will be track only tires. the only reason why i wanted to do a square setuop was for rotational purposes and because i had experienced understeer in a spot of the track, i guess i could get an alignment done and slow down in that spot.

For me I have two sets since I have experience driving on both compounds in the rain, snow, and dry tracks. So for me its R compounds or go home. lol I love my street tires dont get me wrong and thats what I am on all the time since I am older and dont track my cars as much. I dont get much time anymore with skiing, and diving down south.

[jmillet]

I run Toyo R-888 tires (245/40-18 front and 255/35-18 rear) mounted on E46 M3 Style 67 wheels.
Most R-compound tires demand a lot of negative camber up front. I have TCK camber plates set at -3.5 degrees for the track.

[mpower03]

Whenever I do go r compunds Ill do the r888 cause my friend can get me a good price. can youdo camber plates on stock suspension?

[onelove]

I wouldn't bother with the square setup personally, these cars can be setup to run the staggered quite nicely (although no rotation does suck, but you likely won't be going through tires quick enough to worry).

The Apex wheels are a great choice in 18x9 / 18x10, pair them up with a set of Nitto NT05s and you'll find a great learning setup. Down the road you can swap the NT05s for NT01s on the same set of wheels and you'll be happy with the additional grip when the time comes. Most of the people I know favor the NT01s over the R888s, they're made from a similar compound, however the NT05s seem to wear better and can be run nearly to the cords like RA1 before falling away.

[Eddy@ApexWheels]

Extreme Summer tires are the right tire choice for those with less then 10~ track days. A number of extreme summer tires are priced very aggressively as it's competitive tire segment.

The Z4 M uses high offset front and low offset rear wheels just like the E46 M3 (but with less front fender clearance). Although a square setup can be ideal, a staggered setup fits with much more ease and can still feel balanced when setup right.

Because front clearance is limited on the car, without camber plates, you'd be forced to run a narrow rear wheel/tire to create a square setup. This would be significantly under tire'ing the rear. For example, 245/40/18 is the widest fit on an 18x9" wheel on a 100% stock car. To stay square you'd be forced to run that in the rear. A wheel that fits up front like that would then need a thick spacer in the rear to correct for the offset.

If you add camber plates and dial in extra negative camber (while running your track wheels) then you gain a lot of clearance up front while at the same time significantly improving front grip. Doing this would allow for 255/35/18's and even 265/35/18's to be run up front, with as much as a 9.5" wheel.

The rear can fit 9.5" and 10" wheels easily. 265/35/18 and 275/35/18 tires are ideal.

17's can be run on the car but it's very difficult to find the right width/offset combo for the Z4's offset that are still light, and you're tire selection will also be restricted. Additionally 18" wheels have less sidewall deflection/rollover, so turn in response is much sharper. The heavier the car, the more that is a problem. Many extreme summer tires are very cheap in 18" sizes.

The Hankook RS-3 is easily is one of the Best Extreme summer tires now, yet it happens to be one of the cheapest. It's been the fastest tire in RedLine Time Attack events, and holds up really well to heat on track. Not to mention it's available in Z4 M sizes. Dunlop Star Spec's are a great tire and available in a number of sizes. Nitto NT-05's also come in the right size but they are not as good as the above mentioned tires.

The APEX ARC-8 comes in the following sizes so it's easy to mix and match:

18x8.5" ET38 (conservative front, 9" is a better option)
18x9" ET42 (great front wheel with 245 or 255 tires)
18x9.5" ET35 & ET22 (ET35 with lots of camber works up front with a 265, can be used in the rear with 265 or 275) (ET22 is a perfect rear wheel for 265's and 275's)
18x10" ET25 (wide rear for 275's)
18x10.5" ET27 (too wide for optimal track fit on Z4 M)

The most common track setup is 18x9 front with 245/40/18 and 18x9.5" et22 or 18x10" et25 with 265/35 or 275/35/18's.

For r-compounds the Nitto NT-01 is amazingly good and cheap, but it's available in very limited sizes. The R888 has more size options but runs wide which can be good or bad. BFG R1's, Hankook Z214's and hoosiers are other good options.

[mpower03]

Originally Posted by paintpro21

Extreme Summer tires are the right tire choice for those with less then 10~ track days. A number of extreme summer tires are priced very aggressively as it's competitive tire segment.

The Z4 M uses high offset front and low offset rear wheels just like the E46 M3 (but with less front fender clearance). Although a square setup can be ideal, a staggered setup fits with much more ease and can still feel balanced when setup right.

Because front clearance is limited on the car, without camber plates, you'd be forced to run a narrow rear wheel/tire to create a square setup. This would be significantly under tire'ing the rear. For example, 245/40/18 is the widest fit on an 18x9" wheel on a 100% stock car. To stay square you'd be forced to run that in the rear. A wheel that fits up front like that would then need a thick spacer in the rear to correct for the offset.

If you add camber plates and dial in extra negative camber (while running your track wheels) then you gain a lot of clearance up front while at the same time significantly improving front grip. Doing this would allow for 255/35/18's and even 265/35/18's to be run up front, with as much as a 9.5" wheel.

The rear can fit 9.5" and 10" wheels easily. 265/35/18 and 275/35/18 tires are ideal.

17's can be run on the car but it's very difficult to find the right width/offset combo for the Z4's offset that are still light, and you're tire selection will also be restricted. Additionally 18" wheels have less sidewall deflection/rollover, so turn in response is much sharper. The heavier the car, the more that is a problem. Many extreme summer tires are very cheap in 18" sizes.

The Hankook RS-3 is easily is one of the Best Extreme summer tires now, yet it happens to be one of the cheapest. It's been the fastest tire in RedLine Time Attack events, and holds up really well to heat on track. Not to mention it's available in Z4 M sizes. Dunlop Star Spec's are a great tire and available in a number of sizes. Nitto NT-05's also come in the right size but they are not as good as the above mentioned tires.

The APEX ARC-8 comes in the following sizes so it's easy to mix and match:

18x8.5" ET38 (conservative front, 9" is a better option)
18x9" ET42 (great front wheel with 245 or 255 tires)
18x9.5" ET35 & ET22 (ET35 with lots of camber works up front with a 265, can be used in the rear with 265 or 275) (ET22 is a perfect rear wheel for 265's and 275's)
18x10" ET25 (wide rear for 275's)
18x10.5" ET27 (too wide for optimal track fit on Z4 M)

The most common track setup is 18x9 front with 245/40/18 and 18x9.5" et22 or 18x10" et25 with 265/35 or 275/35/18's.

For r-compounds the Nitto NT-01 is amazingly good and cheap, but it's available in very limited sizes. The R888 has more size options but runs wide which can be good or bad. BFG R1's, Hankook Z214's and hoosiers are other good options.

wow very informative. from what ive red rs3 and direzzas seem like great tires

[boondocksaint]

Originally Posted by paintpro21

Extreme Summer tires are the right tire choice for those with less then 10~ track days. A number of extreme summer tires are priced very aggressively as it's competitive tire segment.

The Z4 M uses high offset front and low offset rear wheels just like the E46 M3 (but with less front fender clearance). Although a square setup can be ideal, a staggered setup fits with much more ease and can still feel balanced when setup right.

Because front clearance is limited on the car, without camber plates, you'd be forced to run a narrow rear wheel/tire to create a square setup. This would be significantly under tire'ing the rear. For example, 245/40/18 is the widest fit on an 18x9" wheel on a 100% stock car. To stay square you'd be forced to run that in the rear. A wheel that fits up front like that would then need a thick spacer in the rear to correct for the offset.

If you add camber plates and dial in extra negative camber (while running your track wheels) then you gain a lot of clearance up front while at the same time significantly improving front grip. Doing this would allow for 255/35/18's and even 265/35/18's to be run up front, with as much as a 9.5" wheel.

The rear can fit 9.5" and 10" wheels easily. 265/35/18 and 275/35/18 tires are ideal.

17's can be run on the car but it's very difficult to find the right width/offset combo for the Z4's offset that are still light, and you're tire selection will also be restricted. Additionally 18" wheels have less sidewall deflection/rollover, so turn in response is much sharper. The heavier the car, the more that is a problem. Many extreme summer tires are very cheap in 18" sizes.

The Hankook RS-3 is easily is one of the Best Extreme summer tires now, yet it happens to be one of the cheapest. It's been the fastest tire in RedLine Time Attack events, and holds up really well to heat on track. Not to mention it's available in Z4 M sizes. Dunlop Star Spec's are a great tire and available in a number of sizes. Nitto NT-05's also come in the right size but they are not as good as the above mentioned tires.

The APEX ARC-8 comes in the following sizes so it's easy to mix and match:

18x8.5" ET38 (conservative front, 9" is a better option)
18x9" ET42 (great front wheel with 245 or 255 tires)
18x9.5" ET35 & ET22 (ET35 with lots of camber works up front with a 265, can be used in the rear with 265 or 275) (ET22 is a perfect rear wheel for 265's and 275's)
18x10" ET25 (wide rear for 275's)
18x10.5" ET27 (too wide for optimal track fit on Z4 M)

The most common track setup is 18x9 front with 245/40/18 and 18x9.5" et22 or 18x10" et25 with 265/35 or 275/35/18's.

For r-compounds the Nitto NT-01 is amazingly good and cheap, but it's available in very limited sizes. The R888 has more size options but runs wide which can be good or bad. BFG R1's, Hankook Z214's and hoosiers are other good options.

Fantastic post.

[Tonybest]

Originally Posted by mpower03

thats what i heard about running r compounds. I planned on running street tires and wearing those out and then replacing them with r compounds. ill look into nt05s some more.

IMO Rcomps is when you absolutely cannot improve on your times with street rubber. Way too unforgiving. You won't learn with Rcomps... and there is practically no warning or even none at all before you snap out of control.

Learn properly to master your car first.

I've been tracking 4 years now and just now I am considering Rcomps. Probably next year.