My First Time Attack Race Experience

Frampton · 06-20-2011, 01:12 PM

The Track
http://www.drivewayaustin.com/track-maps/short-course

This was the first every Time Attack hosted by Driveway Austin, a track located about 5 minutes from the Austin Airport. Level 1 short course I linked to above was the 0.7 mile course most of us ran.

I have been running the level 1 course since early March, when my car was totally stock, until now where my car is very well set up for this track. It was an unbelievable experience to add a level of competition to all of the instruction and practice I've received from their staff over the past few months.

If you're close to Austin, I would highly suggest coming out to the next Time Attack. They will be running them the last Sunday of every month going forward. It is the first time they are opening the track to people that have not gone through the their instructional programs.

The Competition

There were 12 cars in Level 1, 0 cars in Level 2, and 3 cars in Level 3. The majority of were Miatas, a S2000, a GTR, a G35, a lotus esprit v8, and a old 240sx. The level 3 cars were a highly modified Mustang GT, a 750hp 911GT2, and a spec Miata.

There were 2 heats where you got 4 laps, 3 timed, to put down your best time. This was awkward since it turned the track into more of an autocross type feel, which required some different tire pressures than normal, and took a while to get used to. You get a half lap run in to the starting line, 3 timed laps, then half a lap cool down to the pits. To put this in perspective I usually put down between 35-70 laps a day when i practice, 35 is usually consecutive.

They used the NASA rules for leveling the playing field between cars factoring in horsepower, mods, and weight. I was at a sever disadvantage due to horsepower must a very big advantage due to weight.

How did I do? I placed 4th after the first two heats taking me into the finals. They took the top 5 cars, threw out all the results from the first part of the day, and did one more final heat. I ended up 5th. Can't complain considering my competition and skill level... 1st was a non street legal miata on nitto nt01's turning out a lap time of 37.2 seconds unfactored, 2nd was an s2000 at 37.4, 3rd was a 240sx at 37.5, 4th was a g35 at 37.8, and i landed a 37.99. That was also a personal best for me on the level1 course and considering the competition I'm excited about my cars setup.

My Setup
Cobb Stage 1, Berk Street Exhaust System, Dunlop Star Specs 225/245 on stock 264's, TCKLine coilovers, Vorshlag camber plates, e93 FSB.

My car was DIALED. I put a ton of time into testing, tuning, and upgrading my car this year and it finally paid off. The car is doing everything i want it to with a bit of oversteer at the limit. Its also wearing the tires nearly perfect.

Notes for Next Time
It's really hard to stack up a 135 against a lot of lighter cars even with the hp i'm putting solidly to the ground. I don't think it is possible to catch any of these guys with this chassis without doing some serious weight reduction. I'm sure i can knock almost a second more off my times with some more practice but some of their cars are capable of a lot lower lap times than mine. Hopefully I catch some of them on an off day next month! The winning miata, that again was not street legal, was driven by the owner to a 35.2 lap time before being purchased by one of the L1 students.

I can't do any weight reduction to this car as it is my DD. My only thought is to retire the 135 to DD duty and purchase an S2000. I'm not stripping out a $30K car at this point in my life and would love to be more competitive. I'm going to give some r comps on breyton gts-r's a shot (255 all around) next month and see if that puts me in the competitive arena.

So... thoughts? comments? rude remarks?

Focusedintntions · 06-20-2011, 01:39 PM

You should be able to walk that G35 with your setup unless he's also running forced induction, even then he might only be equal to what you have. Your car weighs 3-400lbs less than his does too. Being that it was your first time it's awesome to see you make it to finals

But more practice is needed as you got beat by a better driver in a slower car

At this point before investing in Rcomps spend that money on getting out on tracks and really learning to drive the car. It didn't let you down at all, you just need to learn to get the most out of it.

DriveHard · 06-20-2011, 03:12 PM

NICE !!!

you still may be able to do better with simple adjustments.. 1 being a CG lock or baby seat clip to keep your butt planted in the seat while cornering.. I bet you could get at least a couple of tenths to .5 sec if you were able to control your body better. More time if you had harnesses... But im in the same boat you are as my car is my DD so i can only do so much..

Im going for the clip and see what happens at my next event.

Dont feel bad about the Miatas and s2k "beating" you.. ive prepped both for the track... Roll Bars / Coil overs / tires / brakes / . etc etc etc etc ... You just cant beat lightness and the agility that that brings a driver.

Frampton · 06-20-2011, 03:26 PM

im stoked to be as close in time to those guys with such small cars!

i misquoted the g35's time, he was in the mid 38's but was adjusted down to beat me since he was relatively stock

i spin the seat belt clip so it doesn't move. i have almost zero body roll and don't move around much at this point. it would be cool to have a harness though as long as it isn;t intrusive to having 4 people in my car once in a

DriveHard · 06-20-2011, 03:43 PM

I forgot to add.. The 2 prepped cars are my buddies..... and he's the one i go to the track with.... He always beats me...LOL and i set his car up !! now thats a self inflicted wound..

I get a little faster and a little smoother every time... i'll catch the little bastard soon enough

Frampton · 06-20-2011, 05:07 PM

hahahaha love it, damn little prepped cars, like mosquito's buzzing around the track with no mufflers!

IGoFast1589 · 06-21-2011, 07:06 AM

Do you have any pictures of your car? I have similar plans to your current setup for my car. Have you had any cooling issues during HPDE's with the raised boost level? How is it when the rear end let's loose now with the factory open differential and all of your suspension modifications? I feel like the lack of an LSD would be much more noticeable now that your suspension movement is minimized. Nice ride, good work!

xerox445 · 06-21-2011, 08:39 AM

That sounds like "solo I", not exactly a time attack. But looks like a fun little track eitherway. Your next best mod is going to be seat-time.

Frampton · 06-21-2011, 09:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by IGoFast1589

Do you have any pictures of your car? I have similar plans to your current setup for my car. Have you had any cooling issues during HPDE's with the raised boost level? How is it when the rear end let's loose now with the factory open differential and all of your suspension modifications? I feel like the lack of an LSD would be much more noticeable now that your suspension movement is minimized. Nice ride, good work!

Pictures of the car
http://www.flickr.com/photos/sframpton/
Currently has the stock wheels on, sold the black vmrs, rockin' the sleeper look.

Cooling Issues
Zero cooling issues as far as oil and coolant go. Haven't hit limp mode from IAT's yet either since the long straight gets about 75-80mph and makes some good use of the stock intercooler. I've done 25 minute sessions flat out without a break at 95 degrees outside and ran the car for 15 minutes on saturday at 106 ambient. Gotta love my Cobb stage 1 even with the stock FMIC.

Rear End
I put the car sideways twice this weekend on a tight turn in second gear and it is completely manageable getting it back in control. Honestly I'm not having a problem putting the power to the ground through the turns. I may not have enough experience to see where I need the LSD yet but I'm sure I'll notice a difference once i get one this year.

Groundpilot · 06-21-2011, 10:25 AM

You dont have to strip your car to reduce the weight. Just delete rear seats and get lightweight wheels(i suggest Apex) and hoosier tires 245/265. Dunlop tires are the best street high perf.tires period. But they are very heavy and dont grip like r-comp.tires. By changing wheel/tire combo you will reduce UNSPRUNG weight by about 50 pounds wich will improve your cars handling dramatically. With that set up you should eat 240 sx for breakfast, s2000 for lunch and you should be able to destroy G35.

Frampton · 06-21-2011, 12:38 PM

I agree, a few more weeks and I'll be running Breyton GTS-R's square setup wrapped in 255 r comps. Dying to see the 36 second range...

HondaGoneRogue · 06-21-2011, 01:13 PM

I wouldn't trust Breytons with R-comps. They are nowhere near strong enough to endure that level of stress.

Frampton · 06-21-2011, 02:05 PM

do r comps require a forged wheel? is it specific to breyton wheels? does that only leave apex?

Focusedintntions · 06-21-2011, 02:11 PM

They don't require a forged wheel, but you should be very aware of load and strength ratings for the wheels chosen.

Frampton · 06-21-2011, 02:41 PM

Thanks! Where would I find those numbers?

bogart · 06-21-2011, 02:48 PM

Pretty tight competition. I feel you could get down into the 36's though with the right combo. Try APEX Arc-8 wheels. That will allow you to fit 275's in the back and 255's in the front. You will have incredible traction! That will definitely take some time off. Try some lightweight measures like a lighter trunk and hood, and lightweight battery. Take out your back seat to save an additional 55 lbs.

HondaGoneRogue · 06-21-2011, 03:34 PM

I can't speak to the load/strength ratings, but I can tell you that Breytons are a VERY weak wheel. (17lbs cast?) I loved mine, but they are just not up to agressive (or maybe even normal) driving. There are MANY people on the forum with cracked Breytons. I have 3 out of 4 cracked and one has 11 cracks just in itself. I will be starting a thread on it shortly. I just wanted to give you a heads up before you commit to them. I would go for OZ, or APEX's. Not too many issues with those.

Focusedintntions · 06-21-2011, 05:26 PM

Generally you can find load strength ratings from the manufactures, however, not all provide or have them.

IGoFast1589 · 06-21-2011, 06:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frampton

Quote:

Originally Posted by IGoFast1589

Do you have any pictures of your car? I have similar plans to your current setup for my car. Have you had any cooling issues during HPDE's with the raised boost level? How is it when the rear end let's loose now with the factory open differential and all of your suspension modifications? I feel like the lack of an LSD would be much more noticeable now that your suspension movement is minimized. Nice ride, good work!

Pictures of the car
http://www.flickr.com/photos/sframpton/
Currently has the stock wheels on, sold the black vmrs, rockin' the sleeper look.

Cooling Issues
Zero cooling issues as far as oil and coolant go. Haven't hit limp mode from IAT's yet either since the long straight gets about 75-80mph and makes some good use of the stock intercooler. I've done 25 minute sessions flat out without a break at 95 degrees outside and ran the car for 15 minutes on saturday at 106 ambient. Gotta love my Cobb stage 1 even with the stock FMIC.

Rear End
I put the car sideways twice this weekend on a tight turn in second gear and it is completely manageable getting it back in control. Honestly I'm not having a problem putting the power to the ground through the turns. I may not have enough experience to see where I need the LSD yet but I'm sure I'll notice a difference once i get one this year.

Good! I am glad to hear it's staying cool, although you will generate the most heat with the engine fully loaded in 5th or 6th gear.

You would notice the difference in the differential if you got in and out of, let's say an M3, and got back into your car. It's feels like it's unwilling to rotate nicely or just bite into the turn and then apply the power beautifully coming out of a turn. You can feel the power not being used to it's full potential, like it's just not making it to the ground the way it should. The fact that you aren't spinning your inside rear wheel is good though!

Groundpilot · 06-22-2011, 09:10 AM

Cooling Issues
Zero cooling issues as far as oil and coolant go. Haven't hit limp mode from IAT's yet either since the long straight gets about 75-80mph and makes some good use of the stock intercooler. I've done 25 minute sessions flat out without a break at 95 degrees outside and ran the car for 15 minutes on saturday at 106 ambient. Gotta love my Cobb stage 1 even with the stock FMIC.

Do you remember what was your oil temp. in 95 degrees outside ?

Frampton · 06-22-2011, 09:46 AM

My oil temps have never been over about 260-270 even at 106 degrees ambient, i'll check again next time I go out. I imagine its going to stay pretty hot all summer so I'll have plenty of time to log it

06-20-2011, 01:12 PM	#1
Frampton i miss boost 35 Rep 402 Posts Drives: 2009 Mercedes C63 AMG P30 Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: Austin, TX iTrader: (2) Garage List 2008 135i [10.00]	My First Time Attack Race Experience The Track http://www.drivewayaustin.com/track-maps/short-course This was the first every Time Attack hosted by Driveway Austin, a track located about 5 minutes from the Austin Airport. Level 1 short course I linked to above was the 0.7 mile course most of us ran. I have been running the level 1 course since early March, when my car was totally stock, until now where my car is very well set up for this track. It was an unbelievable experience to add a level of competition to all of the instruction and practice I've received from their staff over the past few months. If you're close to Austin, I would highly suggest coming out to the next Time Attack. They will be running them the last Sunday of every month going forward. It is the first time they are opening the track to people that have not gone through the their instructional programs. The Competition There were 12 cars in Level 1, 0 cars in Level 2, and 3 cars in Level 3. The majority of were Miatas, a S2000, a GTR, a G35, a lotus esprit v8, and a old 240sx. The level 3 cars were a highly modified Mustang GT, a 750hp 911GT2, and a spec Miata. There were 2 heats where you got 4 laps, 3 timed, to put down your best time. This was awkward since it turned the track into more of an autocross type feel, which required some different tire pressures than normal, and took a while to get used to. You get a half lap run in to the starting line, 3 timed laps, then half a lap cool down to the pits. To put this in perspective I usually put down between 35-70 laps a day when i practice, 35 is usually consecutive. They used the NASA rules for leveling the playing field between cars factoring in horsepower, mods, and weight. I was at a sever disadvantage due to horsepower must a very big advantage due to weight. How did I do? I placed 4th after the first two heats taking me into the finals. They took the top 5 cars, threw out all the results from the first part of the day, and did one more final heat. I ended up 5th. Can't complain considering my competition and skill level... 1st was a non street legal miata on nitto nt01's turning out a lap time of 37.2 seconds unfactored, 2nd was an s2000 at 37.4, 3rd was a 240sx at 37.5, 4th was a g35 at 37.8, and i landed a 37.99. That was also a personal best for me on the level1 course and considering the competition I'm excited about my cars setup. My Setup Cobb Stage 1, Berk Street Exhaust System, Dunlop Star Specs 225/245 on stock 264's, TCKLine coilovers, Vorshlag camber plates, e93 FSB. My car was DIALED. I put a ton of time into testing, tuning, and upgrading my car this year and it finally paid off. The car is doing everything i want it to with a bit of oversteer at the limit. Its also wearing the tires nearly perfect. Notes for Next Time It's really hard to stack up a 135 against a lot of lighter cars even with the hp i'm putting solidly to the ground. I don't think it is possible to catch any of these guys with this chassis without doing some serious weight reduction. I'm sure i can knock almost a second more off my times with some more practice but some of their cars are capable of a lot lower lap times than mine. Hopefully I catch some of them on an off day next month! The winning miata, that again was not street legal, was driven by the owner to a 35.2 lap time before being purchased by one of the L1 students. I can't do any weight reduction to this car as it is my DD. My only thought is to retire the 135 to DD duty and purchase an S2000. I'm not stripping out a $30K car at this point in my life and would love to be more competitive. I'm going to give some r comps on breyton gts-r's a shot (255 all around) next month and see if that puts me in the competitive arena. So... thoughts? comments? rude remarks? __________________ 2009 Mercedes C63 AMG 2008 135i (Sold)
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06-20-2011, 01:39 PM	#2
Focusedintntions Colonel 105 Rep 2,696 Posts Drives: 2011 135i M-Sport :D Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: NoVA iTrader: (1)	You should be able to walk that G35 with your setup unless he's also running forced induction, even then he might only be equal to what you have. Your car weighs 3-400lbs less than his does too. Being that it was your first time it's awesome to see you make it to finals But more practice is needed as you got beat by a better driver in a slower car At this point before investing in Rcomps spend that money on getting out on tracks and really learning to drive the car. It didn't let you down at all, you just need to learn to get the most out of it. __________________ Faster, faster, faster, until the thrill of speed overcomes the fear of death… – Hunter Thompson
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06-20-2011, 03:12 PM	#3
DriveHard Colonel 117 Rep 1,998 Posts Drives: X1 and R58 JCW Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Long Island iTrader: (0)	NICE !!! you still may be able to do better with simple adjustments.. 1 being a CG lock or baby seat clip to keep your butt planted in the seat while cornering.. I bet you could get at least a couple of tenths to .5 sec if you were able to control your body better. More time if you had harnesses... But im in the same boat you are as my car is my DD so i can only do so much.. Im going for the clip and see what happens at my next event. Dont feel bad about the Miatas and s2k "beating" you.. ive prepped both for the track... Roll Bars / Coil overs / tires / brakes / . etc etc etc etc ... You just cant beat lightness and the agility that that brings a driver. __________________ X1, R58 JCW, M2 in my future if planets align
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06-20-2011, 03:26 PM	#4
Frampton i miss boost 35 Rep 402 Posts Drives: 2009 Mercedes C63 AMG P30 Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: Austin, TX iTrader: (2) Garage List 2008 135i [10.00]	im stoked to be as close in time to those guys with such small cars! i misquoted the g35's time, he was in the mid 38's but was adjusted down to beat me since he was relatively stock i spin the seat belt clip so it doesn't move. i have almost zero body roll and don't move around much at this point. it would be cool to have a harness though as long as it isn;t intrusive to having 4 people in my car once in a __________________ 2009 Mercedes C63 AMG 2008 135i (Sold)
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06-20-2011, 03:43 PM	#5
DriveHard Colonel 117 Rep 1,998 Posts Drives: X1 and R58 JCW Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Long Island iTrader: (0)	I forgot to add.. The 2 prepped cars are my buddies..... and he's the one i go to the track with.... He always beats me...LOL and i set his car up !! now thats a self inflicted wound.. I get a little faster and a little smoother every time... i'll catch the little bastard soon enough __________________ X1, R58 JCW, M2 in my future if planets align
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06-20-2011, 05:07 PM	#6
Frampton i miss boost 35 Rep 402 Posts Drives: 2009 Mercedes C63 AMG P30 Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: Austin, TX iTrader: (2) Garage List 2008 135i [10.00]	hahahaha love it, damn little prepped cars, like mosquito's buzzing around the track with no mufflers! __________________ 2009 Mercedes C63 AMG 2008 135i (Sold)
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06-21-2011, 07:06 AM	#7
IGoFast1589 Captain 49 Rep 654 Posts Drives: 08 135i Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: NY iTrader: (2)	Do you have any pictures of your car? I have similar plans to your current setup for my car. Have you had any cooling issues during HPDE's with the raised boost level? How is it when the rear end let's loose now with the factory open differential and all of your suspension modifications? I feel like the lack of an LSD would be much more noticeable now that your suspension movement is minimized. Nice ride, good work!
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06-21-2011, 08:39 AM	#8
xerox445 Damenslip-Tropfer 23 Rep 543 Posts Drives: 2008 SGM 135i Join Date: May 2011 Location: LBI, NJ iTrader: (1)	That sounds like "solo I", not exactly a time attack. But looks like a fun little track eitherway. Your next best mod is going to be seat-time.
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06-21-2011, 10:25 AM	#10
Groundpilot Banned 476 Rep 1,711 Posts Drives: 135I DCT , e92 M3 DCT, Audi A6 Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: long island,ny iTrader: (0)	You dont have to strip your car to reduce the weight. Just delete rear seats and get lightweight wheels(i suggest Apex) and hoosier tires 245/265. Dunlop tires are the best street high perf.tires period. But they are very heavy and dont grip like r-comp.tires. By changing wheel/tire combo you will reduce UNSPRUNG weight by about 50 pounds wich will improve your cars handling dramatically. With that set up you should eat 240 sx for breakfast, s2000 for lunch and you should be able to destroy G35.
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06-21-2011, 12:38 PM	#11
Frampton i miss boost 35 Rep 402 Posts Drives: 2009 Mercedes C63 AMG P30 Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: Austin, TX iTrader: (2) Garage List 2008 135i [10.00]	I agree, a few more weeks and I'll be running Breyton GTS-R's square setup wrapped in 255 r comps. Dying to see the 36 second range... __________________ 2009 Mercedes C63 AMG 2008 135i (Sold)
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06-21-2011, 01:13 PM	#12
HondaGoneRogue They like my Swag... 433 Rep 3,762 Posts Drives: 15 GSM 435i GC Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: South Dakota iTrader: (4) Garage List 2015 435i Gran Coupe [0.00]	I wouldn't trust Breytons with R-comps. They are nowhere near strong enough to endure that level of stress. __________________ 2015 435i Gran Coupe - Current 2008 AW 135i - Sold
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06-21-2011, 02:05 PM	#13
Frampton i miss boost 35 Rep 402 Posts Drives: 2009 Mercedes C63 AMG P30 Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: Austin, TX iTrader: (2) Garage List 2008 135i [10.00]	do r comps require a forged wheel? is it specific to breyton wheels? does that only leave apex? __________________ 2009 Mercedes C63 AMG 2008 135i (Sold)
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06-21-2011, 02:11 PM	#14
Focusedintntions Colonel 105 Rep 2,696 Posts Drives: 2011 135i M-Sport :D Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: NoVA iTrader: (1)	They don't require a forged wheel, but you should be very aware of load and strength ratings for the wheels chosen. __________________ Faster, faster, faster, until the thrill of speed overcomes the fear of death… – Hunter Thompson
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06-21-2011, 02:41 PM	#15
Frampton i miss boost 35 Rep 402 Posts Drives: 2009 Mercedes C63 AMG P30 Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: Austin, TX iTrader: (2) Garage List 2008 135i [10.00]	Thanks! Where would I find those numbers? __________________ 2009 Mercedes C63 AMG 2008 135i (Sold)
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06-21-2011, 02:48 PM	#16
bogart Lieutenant Colonel 117 Rep 1,664 Posts Drives: E82 N55 DCT Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: STL, MO iTrader: (4) Garage List 2011 BMW 135i [7.06]	Pretty tight competition. I feel you could get down into the 36's though with the right combo. Try APEX Arc-8 wheels. That will allow you to fit 275's in the back and 255's in the front. You will have incredible traction! That will definitely take some time off. Try some lightweight measures like a lighter trunk and hood, and lightweight battery. Take out your back seat to save an additional 55 lbs. __________________
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06-21-2011, 03:34 PM	#17
HondaGoneRogue They like my Swag... 433 Rep 3,762 Posts Drives: 15 GSM 435i GC Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: South Dakota iTrader: (4) Garage List 2015 435i Gran Coupe [0.00]	I can't speak to the load/strength ratings, but I can tell you that Breytons are a VERY weak wheel. (17lbs cast?) I loved mine, but they are just not up to agressive (or maybe even normal) driving. There are MANY people on the forum with cracked Breytons. I have 3 out of 4 cracked and one has 11 cracks just in itself. I will be starting a thread on it shortly. I just wanted to give you a heads up before you commit to them. I would go for OZ, or APEX's. Not too many issues with those. __________________ 2015 435i Gran Coupe - Current 2008 AW 135i - Sold
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06-21-2011, 05:26 PM	#18
Focusedintntions Colonel 105 Rep 2,696 Posts Drives: 2011 135i M-Sport :D Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: NoVA iTrader: (1)	Generally you can find load strength ratings from the manufactures, however, not all provide or have them. __________________ Faster, faster, faster, until the thrill of speed overcomes the fear of death… – Hunter Thompson
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06-22-2011, 09:10 AM	#20
Groundpilot Banned 476 Rep 1,711 Posts Drives: 135I DCT , e92 M3 DCT, Audi A6 Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: long island,ny iTrader: (0)	Cooling Issues Zero cooling issues as far as oil and coolant go. Haven't hit limp mode from IAT's yet either since the long straight gets about 75-80mph and makes some good use of the stock intercooler. I've done 25 minute sessions flat out without a break at 95 degrees outside and ran the car for 15 minutes on saturday at 106 ambient. Gotta love my Cobb stage 1 even with the stock FMIC. Do you remember what was your oil temp. in 95 degrees outside ?
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06-22-2011, 09:46 AM	#21
Frampton i miss boost 35 Rep 402 Posts Drives: 2009 Mercedes C63 AMG P30 Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: Austin, TX iTrader: (2) Garage List 2008 135i [10.00]	My oil temps have never been over about 260-270 even at 106 degrees ambient, i'll check again next time I go out. I imagine its going to stay pretty hot all summer so I'll have plenty of time to log it __________________ 2009 Mercedes C63 AMG 2008 135i (Sold)
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