Novice track suspension advice

[Xaeryan]

Looking for advice from track veterans only. I'm new to HPDEs, but have been autocrossing many years. I installed the Performance Suspension a while back, and while great for the street and fairly decent for autocrossing, it's a bit too soft for the track (IMO). So I've been eyeing up a set of ASTs, trying to figure out which I want.
But at the same time, each time I autocross the car, I'm impressed with the balance and responsiveness of the PS (I also have all the M3 bits). I'm also impressed with its street comfort during weekend cruises, although it could use stiffer springs and better damping even there (again, IMO).
Also many instructors seem to advise sticking with a "slow" suspension initially since it will penalize you more for poor driving skills, so it becomes a learning tool. (Much like they steer novices away from full race slicks)
At the same time, I have the itch for something to tinker with and go faster, so I'm really torn...

So, any opinions as to whether I should opt for a better suspension, or stick with the PS for now? And if the latter, is there a "eureka" point where you realize you have outgrown the suspension? I value your input.

[Focusedintntions]

Until you have a few HDPE's under your belt, stick with what you have. The more you do, you'll eventually reach a point where you know you can't get anything more out of the car, then you get it. Thats what I was told when I first started, use what you have till you know you can't get any faster with it.

[fboutlaw]

I autox and have done a couple HPDE's. I agree that you should stick with what you have until you learn how it reacts. If you're happy enough with the autox performance, then why change?

If you get very serious about track, then you might want to switch to coilovers so you can dial in your settings, but other than that it sounds like you've already done all the mods you can.

[DriveHard]

With no disrespect to you or your mods... you are way below the abilities of your car ( on the track) , and that sometimes can get you introuble and not allow you to maximize your abilities .

I have been Time Trialing for 2 years now, 4 track events, over 300 Track Miles / approx 200 laps put dozens of auto-x's and im still on stock "sport" suspension.

albiet i have a dedicated set of track tires ( NOT R-comps, just low tread wear Hankook Rs3's) and wheels so as to not abuse the RFT's i feel they give no feed back and just plain suck but thats another story)

I slowly upgraded the brakes, and just recently added the e93 FSB. and i am know where near the abilities of the car..

The rule of thhumb is seat time, seat time, seat time, and then more seat time... yes there is an ah-ha moment when you realize that you times arent improving anymore, or you find yourself easily handeling the car at its maximum point of adhesion... then you start to upgrade the car ...

Upgrades go as follows..

upgrade driver,

upgrade car..

just my .02

[spk74]

IMO, each driver is unique and must decide for himself (or herself) which modifications make sense and when. Sure, some drivers could/should improve their skills before any mods make sense...but I personally don't think stock 135i's are very fun to drive on the track.

[Xaeryan]

Originally Posted by DriveHard

With no disrespect to you or your mods... you are way below the abilities of your car ( on the track) , and that sometimes can get you introuble and not allow you to maximize your abilities .

I have been Time Trialing for 2 years now, 4 track events, over 300 Track Miles / approx 200 laps put dozens of auto-x's and im still on stock "sport" suspension.

albiet i have a dedicated set of track tires ( NOT R-comps, just low tread wear Hankook Rs3's) and wheels so as to not abuse the RFT's i feel they give no feed back and just plain suck but thats another story)

I slowly upgraded the brakes, and just recently added the e93 FSB. and i am know where near the abilities of the car..

The rule of thhumb is seat time, seat time, seat time, and then more seat time... yes there is an ah-ha moment when you realize that you times arent improving anymore, or you find yourself easily handeling the car at its maximum point of adhesion... then you start to upgrade the car ...

Upgrades go as follows..

upgrade driver,

upgrade car..

just my .02

None taken, I agree; I'm not nearly at full potential for my car in it's current state, and I'd be even further away with a better suspension. Just seems the suspension leaves a little to be desired when on the track; obviously they did have to make some trade-offs for those who use it in daily driving (I do not).
That and I have the urge to tinker which I need suppressed. :-o

[Xaeryan]

Originally Posted by fboutlaw

I autox and have done a couple HPDE's. I agree that you should stick with what you have until you learn how it reacts. If you're happy enough with the autox performance, then why change?

If you get very serious about track, then you might want to switch to coilovers so you can dial in your settings, but other than that it sounds like you've already done all the mods you can.

I'm happy with the feel and balance of it, however it's disappointing when it feels dead on and the STi/Evo guys in my class are posting several seconds faster times with their fully moded suspensions. Even with a better driver, lack of contact patch (class limit is 285, I'm stuck with 235 fronts) and negative camber (-1.1 maxed) are the big things keeping me out of better results. I'd of course be getting the camber plates with the coilovers, and then I'd have room to fit wider wheels/tires, so there's a few aspects of it that are positive to autocrossing. Again, I know I should learn to extract the most of it before upgrading, but it's very hard to resist when there are all these theoretical positives (I'm trying!).

[GaryS]

If money spent on more mods would mean fewer track days, then for sure your car is already more than good enough. But if you enjoy modding your car and can afford it, go for it. But I think you need a limited slip diff more than you need more suspension.

[Focusedintntions]

HPDE's are totally different from autocross. The setup that works for one very well may not work for an actual track. Go out at least once and see how you like the car. Even with stock suspension I've found the cars biggest weakness is the open diff as spinning the inside rear seems to exacerbate the under steering issue our cars have since you can't make the outside rear of the car help rotate the car. My goal is to spend this summer driving on stock springs/struts and early next spring i'll upgrade suspension. Hoping to get another 4-6 HDPE's in before the end of the year.

[DriveHard]

Originally Posted by Xaeryan

None taken, I agree; I'm not nearly at full potential for my car in it's current state, and I'd be even further away with a better suspension. Just seems the suspension leaves a little to be desired when on the track; obviously they did have to make some trade-offs for those who use it in daily driving (I do not).
That and I have the urge to tinker which I need suppressed. :-o

Well said..

compromise / trade-offs... Life,,,, things are just like that, and we do the best with what we have, and only strive to get better !!

and you dont have to tell me about tinkering......I took my first carburetor apart at 13....im 42 now and havent stopped LOL

[vantagesc]

Slightly off topic, but what don't you like about the damping of the PS? I am considering getting it over KW V2s.

[Xaeryan]

Originally Posted by vantagesc

Slightly off topic, but what don't you like about the damping of the PS? I am considering getting it over KW V2s.

It feels a little too soft/floaty for my taste. Based on what I read from others, I'm a minority in thinking this, so it may be a matter of taste as well as the style of driving you do (I'm mostly track/autocross/weekend cruises now). Perhaps too it could be my skill level, for better or worse.

If you're wondering why I bought it in the first place, it's because I wanted something which I was sure would still provide a warranty, factory fit/finish, and not take away from the resale value, and at the time I was daily driving it. I still think it's a great overall suspension for the reasons I just mentioned, and I wholeheartedly recommend it for the average Joe, and agree with the consensus that the car should have came like this.

.02

[LA-Bimmer]

Originally Posted by Focusedintntions

HPDE's are totally different from autocross. The setup that works for one very well may not work for an actual track. Go out at least once and see how you like the car. Even with stock suspension I've found the cars biggest weakness is the open diff as spinning the inside rear seems to exacerbate the under steering issue our cars have since you can't make the outside rear of the car help rotate the car. My goal is to spend this summer driving on stock springs/struts and early next spring i'll upgrade suspension. Hoping to get another 4-6 HDPE's in before the end of the year.

The Qualfie I installed made a huge difference at the track and made it a totally different car coming through and out of the turns. A definite worth while move.

I had done about 20 track days in my previous E36 M3 and GT500 before we got the 135 for my wife. It was fun to drive stock (except for the runflats and the diff). Put on a set of decent wheels/tires and the Qualfie it was much better. After a while, it was time for a change. Added AST4100s, Vorshlag plates, and some M3 front suspension bits. It will now be some time before I have to worry about getting close to meeting the car's potential. My wife feels the car rides better than stock on the street...and in just a few minutes it becomes a great track car. But like anything...it is a never ending project. Just got back from Barber Motorsports Park and I have got to look into better brakes. Even with the Cool Carbon Pads, upgraded fluidss and the Ti-speed titanium shims; I was having to watch the fade at the end of the sessions.

[GaryS]

Originally Posted by LA-Bimmer

I have got to look into better brakes.

Try this: http://www.1addicts.com/forums/showthread.php?t=527501

And please post at RacingBrake forum that you would be interested in 2 piece rotors. http://www.1addicts.com/forums/showthread.php?t=541534