ANOTHER oil change question

[onesick]

I'm the 2nd owner of my 135i. Got the car with about 9500 miles on it. According to the Carfax, the car was purchased in June '08. First oil change was June '09 @ approximately 7k miles(not sure because Carfax doesn't have exact #). I got the car in March '10, and had an oil change in June '10 @ about 13,100 miles. So my oil light came on yesterday afternoon after I turned my car off and has come on once or twice since then. I'm at about 21k miles... so about 8k since my last oil change. I checked my service status on my car and it came up that my oil was at its minimum level. I checked the next "supposed" service for my car's oil change and it came up March 2012 or 8k more miles. There's no way that can be correct. I understand that I need to add oil, but waiting 15k between oil changes just seems like a little too long for me. I've seen a couple threads about what others do with their oil change schedules. I know the way I drive my car that every 15k miles for an oil change isnt smart for me, so I was thinking about just getting an oil change now and having the BMW scheduled oil change at 30k. So BMW covers an oil change every 15k miles correct? So I would have to pay out of pocket for an oil change sooner then scheduled? This is my first BMW so I'm not completely familiar with their whole system.

[Bdh821]

I change my oil every 5k miles or less. I wouldn't pay BMW to do it only cuz of how much they want for it. They will change it every 15k miles for free.

Here's what I suggest...

http://www.trademotion.com/partlocat...catalogid=4462

Hope this helps

[Dackelone]

I also go with 5K mile OCI's or less. Normally I change my oil every three or four months. It is important to use only BMW LL-1 approved oil. I would buy one of those oil filter change kits from Tischer or United.

IF you light on the dash is coming on when you shut off your engine - your car is really low. Probably at least one(+) quart low. Have you looked at the electronic dip stick gauge - via the turn signal stalk?

Changing your own oil is easy. Here is a great DIY on it:

http://www.1addicts.com/forums/showt...ght=oil+change

Dackel

[JimD]

Step one, go to the dealer for a quart or two of oil. Step two, decide if you want to change the oil yourself (my recommendation) or have the dealer do it. And then get it done. If you do not have Mike Miller's "old school" maintenance schedule I would send him an email and get it. There are things other than engine oil to be aware of.

Jim

[Dackelone]

^^JimD words of wisdom!

[romak47]

this engine eats oil and will require you to add some oil between the 15k mi interval.. Dont trust their stupid intervals.. change your oil no more than every 5k miles.. history shows it keeps engines in tip top shape..

[Tom K.]

Originally Posted by onesick

So BMW covers an oil change every 15k miles correct? So I would have to pay out of pocket for an oil change sooner then scheduled? This is my first BMW so I'm not completely familiar with their whole system.

The 15k figure is an average - the actual oil change interval is determined by the car - look up "Service Requirements" and "Condition Based Servicing" in your manual.

During the free maintenance period, BMW will also perform a free oil service if you have not accumulated enough mileage within one year of the previous change - so you should be due in June of this year. Some people have had an oil analysis done at 10,000 miles and reported that the oil was OK, so you can probably wait until June with no problems.

If you want to have your dealer do an "Interim Change", the cost should be about $100. If you wish to so it yourself, a BMW oil change kit will cost about $65.

Tom

[ScotchAndCigar]

It's time for me to chime-in here. Maybe for some, changing one's oil is akin to washing & waxing their car - they enjoy providing care to their cars. But objectively, this whole subject is based on bullshit. There's no need to change the oil every 5K miles; do you think that BMW developed the technology to go 15-20K miles between OCIs, then installed a sophisticated monitoring system in all their cars, as a big scam?

What happens to all the BMW lease returns and cars traded-in after 2 to 4 years? They go back to BMW and get resold by the dealerships with CPO warranties. Why would BMW institute an OCI that would compromise their resales? They wouldn't. Just like all the other advanced tech these cars have - electric water pumps, valvetronic, DTS - it's not necessary for us "laymen" to analyze it's merits and methods (except for faulty stuff like HPFP).

I'm on my 4th Bimmer with 15K OCI. My last one, a Z4 with the N52, went 19K miles between changes. Yes, I sometimes had to add a quart midway through the interval, but with a 7 quart resevoir, being down 1 is fairly routine.

And the Castrol Syntec oil is major expensive, so 7 qts plus the filter is costly even to do onesself. Finally, the drop-in filter needs to be torqued properly, and contains several o-rings. I would think that there's much greater potential for damage caused by botching the oil change, than by just following the recommended interval.

[BMW86]

+ 1 on changing the oil and filter regularly. Oil changes are relatively cheap considering how much the car itself costs. Basic things like changing the oil/filter and filling up with premium petrol are a must, especially if you own the car and plan to keep it for the long haul.

[ScotchAndCigar]

Originally Posted by maxnix

During the intervening few years, neither the lubricants nor the metallurgy fundamentally changed. Hmmmmm......what's up with that? Saving BMW money? You betcha!

False. Nikasil cylinder linings + synthetic oil = fundamental change. And your "conspiracy theory" seems misplaced in a BMW enthusiast forum, don't you think?

Originally Posted by maxnix

Not saying a BMW engine car won't last 100K with only 6 oil and fliter changes, but when one disassembles it and looks at it more closely, it won't be as clean nor have quite the same tolerances as one that has 20 oil and filter changes. .

Do you have any evidence that this is true, or are you just making your own speculation? I would think that the opposite would be true, that many oil changes will increase the likelihood that the lube system is not properly sealed, not properly torqued, or otherwise screwed-up. Did you ever think about why BMW got rid of the dipstick? It's because they want a high-flow, high-pressure lube system, and the dipstick access becomes a weak point. If you don't believe me, try to find another 2.5 - 3.0L engine that uses 7 qts of oil.

Originally Posted by maxnix

Even the anecdotal evidence a curious reader will notice in these forums is that all of the owners complaining of oil consumption are following a long OCI.

Again, you're arranging the facts to fit your preconceptions. Let's say the engine consumes 1 quart per 10K miles. If you change the oil every 5K or 7.5K, you'll never notice, but the consumption will be the same.

Originally Posted by maxnix

Some take a shower everyday, some once a week, some even longer in the country that invented perfumes. Which is healthier? Are you wasting 6 days of water? How well does your nose work?

This is a meaningless analogy. A better analogy would be changing a light bulb monthly that is made to last a year.

[ScotchAndCigar]

Originally Posted by BMW86

+ 1 on changing the oil and filter regularly. Oil changes are relatively cheap considering how much the car itself costs. Basic things like changing the oil/filter and filling up with premium petrol are a must, especially if you own the car and plan to keep it for the long haul.

The engine is designed for premium fuel, so of course you'd be better using higher octane. It's also designed to stay sealed for about 15K miles at a time, and then have the lube system serviced properly.

[mke135i]

I just changed my oil today @9000 miles on the oil, 14k miles on the engine (intended to do it @7500 but weather was too cold). I'm sending it to blackstone for an analysis and pending results, I might go with the BMW recommended OCI, or stay at 7500 intervals.

[RPM90]

Originally Posted by maxnix

Well, there is interesting reading in the stickies of the recommended maintenance intervals when the owner paid for it and the recommended maintenance intervals when BMW paid for it. In the latter case, the intervals were much longer. During the intervening few years, neither the lubricants nor the metallurgy fundamentally changed. Hmmmmm......what's up with that? Saving BMW money? You betcha!

Not saying a BMW engine car won't last 100K with only 6 oil and fliter changes, but when one disassembles it and looks at it more closely, it won't be as clean nor have quite the same tolerances as one that has 20 oil and filter changes. Even the anecdotal evidence a curious reader will notice in these forums is that all of the owners complaining of oil consumption are following a long OCI.

Some take a shower everyday, some once a week, some even longer in the country that invented perfumes. Which is healthier? Are you wasting 6 days of water? How well does your nose work?

BMW did change to synthetic oil when they changed the drain interval. They also added the software to calculate the change interval. New engines, and manufacturing and materials change continuously. To say there were NO fundamental changes is inaccurate.

I have only 15k miles on my 135i and I do not have any complaining of oil consumption as there isn't any, anecdotally that is.

BMW has over a decade of positive evidence that their calculated oil change intervals work just fine. We don't have to use anecdotal "evidence". The fact that BMW engines aren't suffering any oil related problems en mas, for the past decade should make it very clear how well their long drain interval is working.
I too was a skeptic when I bought my 2003 325i, but I can't ignore the clear evidence that BMW got it right, or at least didn't get it wrong.

I've said it before and I think it's important to say it again, many BMW engines use 7 SEVEN quarts of oil. That's 2 quarts MORE than the average engine, 40% MORE oil. That alone allows for a longer drain interval, then add in synthetic, greater engine and oil cooling efficiency.

Using the old "3000 miles" for an oil change is archaic and ignorant of advances in engine design, manufacturing, and materials, as well as denying advances in lubrication technology.
The 3000 mile oil change got fully going when quick oil change companies started becoming the McDonalds of oil maintenance.
I recall it sometime in the 80's. It is now 2011. Move forward or get left behind. If auto companies like BMW stuck with 80's knowledge, we wouldn't have 300hp/300lb ft. twin or twin-scroll turbo engines with little turbo lag, while getting 20-25mpg.

[RPM90]

Originally Posted by BMW86

+ 1 on changing the oil and filter regularly. Oil changes are relatively cheap considering how much the car itself costs. Basic things like changing the oil/filter and filling up with premium petrol are a must, especially if you own the car and plan to keep it for the long haul.

Poster bring up this "keep it for the long haul".
I'm interested in knowing what some of you think that is.
How many years, miles is that to you?
And how many miles per year do you average?

The longest I've had a brand new car was 10yrs. It was a 1990 Laser/Eclipse turbo, 5MT. It had over 145,000 miles when I sold it, and it was still running pretty strong and didn't burn oil.
For the first 4 years I ran regular non-synth at 3-5k intervals, standard filters. Then I switched to fully synthetic and went 8k intervals, and I recall switching to Mobil and Bosch filters.
Capacity was about 5 quarts.
This was an old tech turbo with no turbo timer and it ran hot, good amount of heat coming off the hood even driving normal day to day.

[Dackelone]

For me the long haul means 100K to 200K miles, 20K+ miles per year, 10+ years.That is why I go with 5K OCI's.

[BMW86]

Originally Posted by RPM90

Poster bring up this "keep it for the long haul".
I'm interested in knowing what some of you think that is.
How many years, miles is that to you?
And how many miles per year do you average?

The longest I've had a brand new car was 10yrs. It was a 1990 Laser/Eclipse turbo, 5MT. It had over 145,000 miles when I sold it, and it was still running pretty strong and didn't burn oil.
For the first 4 years I ran regular non-synth at 3-5k intervals, standard filters. Then I switched to fully synthetic and went 8k intervals, and I recall switching to Mobil and Bosch filters.
Capacity was about 5 quarts.
This was an old tech turbo with no turbo timer and it ran hot, good amount of heat coming off the hood even driving normal day to day.

I'm at 35,000 miles at the moment and I've owned the car for 2 years. I'm aware advancements in technology have been made but I treat it as regular maintenance. I see it no differently then keeping my car in pristine condition and thoroughly cleaning it inside and out. Some people go weeks or months without washing their cars and let bird poop eat away at their paint.

There are arguments for and against regular periodic fuel changes without any real proof or evidence on both sides. All I can say is I sleep better at night having changed my oil and filter every 5k and knowing it's done properly. I also try to let my car idle for a minute or so after very hard spirited driving although the technology is there to cool the car down even after the engine has been shut off. It's your own car, you can do what you want.

On another note, when it comes time to sell the car, being able to say you've changed the oil/filter every 5k may be seen as a big positive. I know I wouldn't be too keen on buying a used 135i which stuck to the BMW oil change schedule, especially if it had high milage.

[ScotchAndCigar]

Originally Posted by BMW86

There are arguments for and against regular periodic fuel changes without any real proof or evidence on both sides.

This is simply untrue. The only "argument" against is an unsubstantiated one by owners such as yourself. The other side of the issue is the carmaker's specification, backed by the company and supported by a decade of real-world results.

Originally Posted by BMW86

All I can say is I sleep better at night having changed my oil and filter every 5k and knowing it's done properly.

Yes, and many people feel the same about buying Advil instead of generic ibuprofen, but that doesn't mean there's any reasoning behind it.

Frankly, considering that people were doing 7500 mi oil changes decades ago, and now with modern engine manufacturing, Nikasil-lined cylinders, and full synthetic oil, your recommendation of shorter OCIs is comical.

Again, it's your car - do what pleases you. If changing the oil every 5K increases your enthusiast connection to your car, great. Just don't claim that what your doing is providing any extension to your engine's life. BMW feels that their maintenance intervals will provide satisfactory lubrication for the life of the engine. In other words, the engine will not fail due to lube issues. As with many things in life, sometimes there is "adequate" and "not adequate". Not everything is on a continuous sliding scale of good, better, best.

[ScotchAndCigar]

Originally Posted by maxnix

So that 1994 740i that had the engine replaced at 99K miles was imaginary? Nikasil has been around almost 20 years. Hello.

Am I supposed to know about this specific 740i you're referring to? Perhaps you're talking about BMW's all aluminum small V-8s, which had design problems?

Originally Posted by maxnix

There is no reasoning with dogmatic faith. You are on your own. You need to get out of your overstuffed armchair and hang out at competent shop sometime. Then you will see where the carbon and varnish meet the metal.

Why is listening to the company that designs and builds the car dogmatic faith? It seems to me the opposite is true - that your "religious" oil servicing practice stubbornly persists, despite the car maker saying otherwise. And there's no need for personal attacks - don't make presumptions about what I know and where I do or don't hang out. You're the one needing the burden of proof for your assertions. Last I checked, there wasn't anyone claiming that BMW's recommendations have resulted in shortened engine life.

[ScotchAndCigar]

Originally Posted by maxnix

Well, on my 1995 Q45 VH45DE the OCI for urban driving is 3,750. We didn't condsider the engine fully broken in until 100K and maintained ones reach 350K and beyond easily with original parts and maybe an alternator replacement.

So you're saying that frequent oil changes even benefitted the non-lubricated parts of the car as well, and eliminated virtually all wear and maintenance. That's downright magical! If the Q45 was such a superior vehicle as you imply, you'd think it would be the most popular car on the planet, no?

Do you also have recollections of a particularly cold day in the past, which would thereby disprove the theory of global warming?

[JimD]

ScotchAndCigar,

You are entitled to your opinion and I am glad you have seen no ill effects of 15K oil change intervals. I also think Mike Miller has more experience than you do on what is best for BMW engines. He recommends shorter intervals (that vary with the motor some). The only way for us to really know for our car and our driving is to get an oil analysis. There is no point in being offensive to others that would rather spend a bit more on oil changes. We may be wrong but we are using advice from at least one knowledgable source. How you drive is a factor which could make your successful experience not applicable to others.

There is a correlation between when BMW started to recommend longer intervals and when they started being financially responsible for the effect of those intervals. Assuming you know the motive is an assumption. But the correlation is there. The other correlation is with the use of synthetic oil. Mike Miller goes through that pretty well in his old school recommendations. He still recommends shorter oil change intervals. His shop tears down a lot of BMWs. I think he knows more than I do and probably more than you too what they need.

I would rather risk wasting a few hundred dollars on oil changes than risk wasting a few thousand dollars on engine repairs. I am not doing it based simply on my judgement, I am also considering the judgement of someone with more experience who is respected enough he writes a popular column for the Roundel.

Jim

[ScotchAndCigar]

I'm aware of the relationship between the covered maintenance and the recommended OCIs. I've expressed my point of view, which is echoed by many others on this forum. Now It's time to make note of our differences, and move on, since we don't seem to be making progress on this issue.

Enjoy your cars.

[onesick]

Lots of good information in here, guys. Thanks Definitely enjoying the BMW community. Previously came from a 2003 VW GTI 1.8T and you would ask question like this(or really any quesiton in general) on VWVortex and either get flamed or some sarcastic side mark.