So I've cross-shopped a ton of M3 competitors lately...

[DefBringer]

I thought it might be helpful for people like me who are contemplating purchasing an M3 or perhaps one of these other cars. Following are MY OPINIONS only, so no need for hurt feelings.

Background: 36 yo male. I'm not loyal to any brand, foreign or domestic. My car history includes: 94 Mazda RX-7, Audi A4 1.8T, Toyota Supra Turbo, BMW 335i Coupe, Lancer Evolution 8. What I look for in a car is the total package: "fun to drive" factor trumps straight-line speed. Comfort and daily-drivability are extremely important.

(in order that they were driven)

2010 E92 M3 - I instantly fell in love with this car because of the seats. Best seats, bar none, in any of the cars tested. 6speed and DCT are both enjoyable in their own ways but I would highly recommend the manual as it was just more fun to use. Engine feels weak and requires a heavy foot to wring the power out. Car is very easy to drive and inspires confidence but I never felt like I was going fast. This car is just kind of odd. It wants to be the ultimate daily driver and track car at the same time but kind of just lands somewhere in between...in limbo.

2010 Corvette Grand Sport - I was nearly too embarassed to even go onto the Chevy lot as I have always laughed at these cars as a joke. 5 minutes into the test drive I realized that this car was far more civilized than I had ever imagined. Clutch and shifter were smooth and the steering was not as vague as I feared. It is very difficult to get used to the way this car feels (it feels huge) and I was concerned about visibility and just knowing where the car's body was in relationship to its surroundings. Interior is dismal but everything is easy to reach and use. Power is amazing but I was disappointed at how rough the engine felt. But would I put up with that truck-like sophistication for all that power? Hell yes. Cruising at 75mph at 1700rpm in 6th gear is addicting - the Corvette would be an amazing highway trip car.

2008 Corvette Z06 - Everything I said above except the power of God under the hood. I simply cannot believe a car that is this fast is street legal. Like the Grand Sport, these cars are just on a whole other level than the M3. The athleticism of these cars is truly something to behold. Unfortunately, unlike the M3, these cars do not make me feel comfortable taking high speed turns...I felt like the back would pop out if I were to hit some sand/gravel on a fast sweeper. But this is probably because I just wasn't used to the car yet.

2008 Mitsubishi Lancer Evolution GSR - Since I've owned a Lancer Evo 8 in the past, I felt obligated to try out this car. Out of all the cars I drove this one is the most practical - AWD, four doors, cheap to insure. The most go-kart like of all the cars...steering response is out of this world. The engine is very refined for a 2.0 turbo but requires a heavy foot to get into boost. The interior is absolute trash save for the Recaro seats which are sublime. The car is by far the nosiest highway cruiser here, thanks to a lack of a 6th gear. That said, the 5 speed is absolutely delightful for city driving. The full potential of this car requires a tune so it is no surprise Mitsubishi isn't selling many of these.

2011 Mustang GT 5.0 - I was only slightly less embarssed to be pulling onto the Ford lot than the Chevy lot. Like the Corvette, I was pleasantly surprised. The Mustang had much superior fit&finish in comparison to the Corvette - Ford is working on a higher level. Outstanding base stereo (although not nearly as nice as the BMW's). Shifter feel is tremendous, this is one of the best I have ever felt. The engine is absolutely delightful - much smoother and rev-happy than the LS3 and LS7. Overrall, this is the best engine in any of the cars I test drove. I drove a Mustang with the Brembo brake package which adds suspension tweaks but even that couldn't help the fact that the GT just felt kind of big and clumsy. Steering response was very nice but I couldn't feel much through the wheel and generally didn't enjoy turns in the car as much as I had hoped I would.

2007 Porsche Cayman S - (Driving this tonight after work...will update tomorrow)

[SUB-ZERO]

Originally Posted by DefBringer

I thought it might be helpful for people like me who are contemplating purchasing an M3 or perhaps one of these other cars. Following are MY OPINIONS only, so no need for hurt feelings.

Background: 36 yo male. I'm not loyal to any brand, foreign or domestic. My car history includes: 94 Mazda RX-7, Audi A4 1.8T, Toyota Supra Turbo, BMW 335i Coupe, Lancer Evolution 8. What I look for in a car is the total package: "fun to drive" factor trumps straight-line speed. Comfort and daily-drivability are extremely important.

(in order that they were driven)

2010 E92 M3 - I instantly fell in love with this car because of the seats. Best seats, bar none, in any of the cars tested. 6speed and DCT are both enjoyable in their own ways but I would highly recommend the manual as it was just more fun to use. Engine feels weak and requires a heavy foot to wring the power out. Car is very easy to drive and inspires confidence but I never felt like I was going fast. This car is just kind of odd. It wants to be the ultimate daily driver and track car at the same time but kind of just lands somewhere in between...in limbo.

2010 Corvette Grand Sport - I was nearly too embarassed to even go onto the Chevy lot as I have always laughed at these cars as a joke. 5 minutes into the test drive I realized that this car was far more civilized than I had ever imagined. Clutch and shifter were smooth and the steering was not as vague as I feared. It is very difficult to get used to the way this car feels (it feels huge) and I was concerned about visibility and just knowing where the car's body was in relationship to its surroundings. Interior is dismal but everything is easy to reach and use. Power is amazing but I was disappointed at how rough the engine felt. But would I put up with that truck-like sophistication for all that power? Hell yes. Cruising at 75mph at 1700rpm in 6th gear is addicting - the Corvette would be an amazing highway trip car.

2008 Corvette Z06 - Everything I said above except the power of God under the hood. I simply cannot believe a car that is this fast is street legal. Like the Grand Sport, these cars are just on a whole other level than the M3. The athleticism of these cars is truly something to behold. Unfortunately, unlike the M3, these cars do not make me feel comfortable taking high speed turns...I felt like the back would pop out if I were to hit some sand/gravel on a fast sweeper. But this is probably because I just wasn't used to the car yet.

2008 Mitsubishi Lancer Evolution GSR - Since I've owned a Lancer Evo 8 in the past, I felt obligated to try out this car. Out of all the cars I drove this one is the most practical - AWD, four doors, cheap to insure. The most go-kart like of all the cars...steering response is out of this world. The engine is very refined for a 2.0 turbo but requires a heavy foot to get into boost. The interior is absolute trash save for the Recaro seats which are sublime. The car is by far the nosiest highway cruiser here, thanks to a lack of a 6th gear. That said, the 5 speed is absolutely delightful for city driving. The full potential of this car requires a tune so it is no surprise Mitsubishi isn't selling many of these.

2011 Mustang GT 5.0 - I was only slightly less embarssed to be pulling onto the Ford lot than the Chevy lot. Like the Corvette, I was pleasantly surprised. The Mustang had much superior fit&finish in comparison to the Corvette - Ford is working on a higher level. Outstanding base stereo (although not nearly as nice as the BMW's). Shifter feel is tremendous, this is one of the best I have ever felt. The engine is absolutely delightful - much smoother and rev-happy than the LS3 and LS7. Overrall, this is the best engine in any of the cars I test drove. I drove a Mustang with the Brembo brake package which adds suspension tweaks but even that couldn't help the fact that the GT just felt kind of big and clumsy. Steering response was very nice but I couldn't feel much through the wheel and generally didn't enjoy turns in the car as much as I had hoped I would.

2007 Porsche Cayman S - (Driving this tonight after work...will update tomorrow)

- Cayman S is a great car but felt somewhat anemic compared to an e9X M3. However, it was very balanced and the fit and finish was beyond excellent.

- Corvettes are beasts. Having said that, they are not close to being as refined as an M3. Not the engine, transmission, suspension and obviously not the interior. However, they look cool, handle great and are a great value.

- You are too old for an EVO.

- The new Mustang is promising and a great value. Performance numbers are on par with an M3 it seems but I am sure that the overall fit and finish is not.

I would recommend a 2011 M3 with ZCP and DCT. You will get world class performance, excellent fit an finish and the level of exclusivity that you will not get with an EVO, Mustang or Corvette.

Porsche is an excellent option, but if power is what you crave, stick to the 911S or above. Having said that, all of the Porsches I have ever driven have excellent build quality, handling and overall balance. The new Spyder is to die for but lacks power.

-SZ

[stevehifi]

Great review, I've driven all of those cars including the porsche cayman which is not anemic at all as stated above. It is extremely capable, well balanced and confidence inspiring.

I think you will be impressed with the cayman's lightness and agility, it will make the m3 feel like a heavy pig. The motor is not as sweet though.

[SUB-ZERO]

Originally Posted by stevehifi

Great review, I've driven all of those cars including the porsche cayman which is not anemic at all as stated above. It is extremely capable, well balanced and confidence inspiring.

I think you will be impressed with the cayman's lightness and agility, it will make the m3 feel like a heavy pig. The motor is not as sweet though.

Originally Posted by shift@red

The Cayman S will make every car you drove so far feel anemic, clumsy and lacking for feel. Its still fast (especially around a track) but if youre looking for fun to drive, connected, the best handling by far of all you listed and the best fit and finish, its the cayman S.

The Cayman S is a great car and feels very light! However, I didn't feel the power that some of you refer to. I am not sure what the power to weight ratio is but the M3 has 100 more HP than the Cayman S and revs higher as well. When comapred to the M3, the Cayman S felt like it could benefit from another extra 50hp.

-SZ

[jdgamble]

You have cross-shopped exactly ZERO direct competitors to the M3... unless you just mean ANY car is an M3 competitor. The Cayman tonight maybe, but not really... It's a 2 seater.

[SUB-ZERO]

Originally Posted by shift@red

I never felt mine was slow, but mine also did put down 301 rwhp (with test pipe exhaust) and weighed under 3000 lbs, so it definately moved, especially when i was on the track. The new ones, especially with PDK are much faster; mid to igh 12 1/4 mile and trap ~110. With PDK the cayman S is 10-10.5 seconds to 100 mph, which is exactly what they m3 does.
I always loved how connected I was with the car...how it was an extension of the body driving it. Everthing was perfect. Steering, seating position, the way the clutch and gearbox were, etc.
Now as far as power, you still cant use all of it on the street, but if they were ever to really go all out and do what I think they should do by putting either the 997.2 S motor or the 997.1 GT3 motor in it, there would be nothing short of supercars that could run with it. So yes I agree they could give it more power, but its still quick as is and perfect in every other area.

Yes, it is a very precise car. I test drove the Spyder the other day and it also felt amazing. Nothing like being wrapped in CF buckets! Imagine a GT3 motor in a Spyder or Cayman S! Wow!

However, it will be difficult to just have a Cayman becuase of the space constraint. An M3 on the other hand, is more versitile.

Both in the garage is just priceless.

-SZ

[SUB-ZERO]

Originally Posted by jdgamble

You have cross-shopped exactly ZERO direct competitors to the M3... unless you just mean ANY car is an M3 competitor. The Cayman tonight maybe, but not really... It's a 2 seater.

Direct comps:

1. GTR
2. RS5
3. CTS V Coupe

Comps:

1. S5
2. CTS V
3. ISF
4. C63 AMG

Am I missing one or two?

-SZ

[M3 Montreal]

Originally Posted by jdgamble

You have cross-shopped exactly ZERO direct competitors to the M3... unless you just mean ANY car is an M3 competitor. The Cayman tonight maybe, but not really... It's a 2 seater.

LOL +1 you are all over the place on your cross shopping.

Do you ever track your car? If not then how is a z06 not giving you confidence around corners? That thing is a BEAST in straight line and cornering. You just need to know how to not overstep the accelerator around corners.

What about the new 335is or the MB C63?

I looked at a Evo X as well and chose the S4. I just coulrnt for the life of me justify paying 50k for a modified lancer.

If all you feel is that the Cayman S is only missing 50 hp then I would buy the Cayman S and put full bolt ons which should get you that 50hp and make it your ideal car.

[DefBringer]

Originally Posted by jdgamble

You have cross-shopped exactly ZERO direct competitors to the M3... unless you just mean ANY car is an M3 competitor. The Cayman tonight maybe, but not really... It's a 2 seater.

I'm assuming you're talking about Audi and Mercedes.

I don't consider anything coming out of Ingolstadt to be interesting. 4000 lb, understeering cars is not my bag and I cannot afford an R8.

Mercedes does not offer a C63 (or any car, as far as I know) that does not use a torque converter. I refuse to drive slushboxes.

The CTS-V is so hideous in my eyes I could not possibly consider it.

Just curious, how often did you put people in the backseat of your M3? When I had my 335 Coupe I used the back seats exactly ZERO times.

People with 911's and 3-series BMW's who harp on about how nice it is to have a rear seat are being disingenuous. Unless you're carting around extremely small children, those seats are completely worthless.

[DefBringer]

Originally Posted by M3 Montreal

LOL +1 you are all over the place on your cross shopping.

Do you ever track your car? If not then how is a z06 not giving you confidence around corners? That thing is a BEAST in straight line and cornering. You just need to know how to not overstep the accelerator around corners.

What about the new 335is or the MB C63?

I looked at a Evo X as well and chose the S4. I just coulrnt for the life of me justify paying 50k for a modified lancer.

If all you feel is that the Cayman S is only missing 50 hp then I would buy the Cayman S and put full bolt ons which should get you that 50hp and make it your ideal car.

I realize I'm all over the place, but I figured I should include all the cars that fit my criteria just in case someone else googling x vs y car could see my post.

I have driven the 335iS and it's a great car, especially with DCT, but I just didn't feel it brought enough new stuff to the table over my 335i. That said, I would take a 335iS over a R/S4 or R/S5 as well as any sub-$100k Mercedes for the reasons I gave in my prior post.

I know the Corvette is capable of tackling those corners, it's just that I didn't get the "feel" from the car I needed like the BMW or Evo gave me to let me know what is going on. It's like you have to have blind faith in those huge meaty tires. Again, as I said earlier, more experience behind the Corvette wheel would have made me more confident.

[jdgamble]

Originally Posted by M3 Montreal

LOL +1 you are all over the place on your cross shopping.

Do you ever track your car? If not then how is a z06 not giving you confidence around corners? That thing is a BEAST in straight line and cornering. You just need to know how to not overstep the accelerator around corners.

What about the new 335is or the MB C63?

I looked at a Evo X as well and chose the S4. I just coulrnt for the life of me justify paying 50k for a modified lancer.

If all you feel is that the Cayman S is only missing 50 hp then I would buy the Cayman S and put full bolt ons which should get you that 50hp and make it your ideal car.

Hey Montreal... Not to hijack a post, but do you still have the M3 and the S4? How do they compare? Does the S4 still feel pretty fast after driving the M3? I almost got the S4 but ended up going minimally optioned M3 instead.

[SUB-ZERO]

Originally Posted by DefBringer

I'm assuming you're talking about Audi and Mercedes.

I don't consider anything coming out of Ingolstadt to be interesting. 4000 lb, understeering cars is not my bag and I cannot afford an R8.

Mercedes does not offer a C63 (or any car, as far as I know) that does not use a torque converter. I refuse to drive slushboxes.

The CTS-V is so hideous in my eyes I could not possibly consider it.

Just curious, how often did you put people in the backseat of your M3? When I had my 335 Coupe I used the back seats exactly ZERO times.

People with 911's and 3-series BMW's who harp on about how nice it is to have a rear seat are being disingenuous. Unless you're carting around extremely small children, those seats are completely worthless.

I can fit adults in the backseat of my M3. I have used my back seats about 3-5 times in 12 months. It is also good to store your laptop bag when you have a passenger .

-SZ

[jdgamble]

Originally Posted by DefBringer

Just curious, how often did you put people in the backseat of your M3? When I had my 335 Coupe I used the back seats exactly ZERO times.

I have had 3 or 4 people (including me) in my E90 several times (maybe 8) in the last 2 1/2 months. My friends always want me to drive!

[serge]

Nice review!

[mdosu]

btw, the Evo would not be cheaper to insure. I switched from an 2003 Evo 8 to M3 and i saved 14% on the same level of coverage.

[DefBringer]

Originally Posted by jdgamble

I have had 3 or 4 people (including me) in my E90 several times (maybe 8) in the last 2 1/2 months. My friends always want me to drive!

Well, I guess maybe I just have my front seats back too far to let people get back there? I can't even fit my hand behind my own seat, much less an adult's leg.

[mdosu]

Originally Posted by DefBringer

Mercedes does not offer a C63 (or any car, as far as I know) that does not use a torque converter. I refuse to drive slushboxes.

The CTS-V is so hideous in my eyes I could not possibly consider it.

Just curious, how often did you put people in the backseat of your M3? When I had my 335 Coupe I used the back seats exactly ZERO times.

.

MB - you should test drive before you knock it. It's pretty good.

CTSV - All subjective, but I like the design of the sedan

backseat - depends on how many friends you got, most M3 drives have no friends.

[e1000]

Originally Posted by DefBringer

Mercedes does not offer a C63 (or any car, as far as I know) that does not use a torque converter. I refuse to drive slushboxes.

Really not trying to start an argument here, but this is false. 6-speed manuals have been offered in the C and SLK ranges, albeit not in any AMG model.

Also, Mercedes is moving toward it's MCT, which replaces the torque converter for a wet clutch for it's 7-speed transmission. It's currently offered in the SL63 and E63, and should filter it's way down to all models over the coming years.

Far out of reach for many, but the SLS uses a dual-clutch 7-speed transmission, manufactured by Getrag. No it's not the same one as in the M3.

[RandyB]

Great reviews. I'm looking forward to your review of the Cayman S. That is the only other car that I was looking at when I got my M3. Sometimes I think I would be happier with it. I wonder if the next-gen Cayman S will get the 3.6? I need a poor man's GT3!

[DefBringer]

Originally Posted by mdosu

btw, the Evo would not be cheaper to insure. I switched from an 2003 Evo 8 to M3 and i saved 14% on the same level of coverage.

Through USAA I got quotes on all the vehicles in question. It was interesting to see that the cost to insure these vehicles from most to least expensive: ($250 deductible, full coverage)

M3 - 123
2010 Corvette GS - 119
2008 Corvette Z06 - 117
2011 Mustang GT - 90 something
Evo X - 86

That's just with my insurance company, though. Not sure how yours is.

Interestingly enough, I also looked at insurance for a 2003 911 Turbo. $187 a month!! That killed any chance I was going to consider that car...

[M3 Montreal]

Originally Posted by jdgamble

Hey Montreal... Not to hijack a post, but do you still have the M3 and the S4? How do they compare? Does the S4 still feel pretty fast after driving the M3? I almost got the S4 but ended up going minimally optioned M3 instead.

Yes I still have and plan on keeping my M3. Still have my Volk TE37 Super Laps on order and maybe next year PSS10's and Im done as far as mods go. I want to keep it NA.

As for the S4... It's no comparison to the M3 but I do feel it beats its BMW Equivalent in overall package which is the 335Xi.

It's completely different from the M3 where the M3 feels like its very solid and on rails the S4 does have body roll although I still must say it drives amazingly well and especially when accelerating hard through corners thanks to the new Sport Differential. ($1500 option and would not buy this car without it!).

It has amazing power up till about 6k. Redline is at 7k but I find there is no power beyond 6 but GOBS below it. it's extremely underrated by Audi and people are dynoing it at about 320 WHP. APR just recently came out with a tune that adds almost 100 HP at redline (must see the graph). this fixxes the current problem of no pwer for the last 1k RPM.

The interior is beautiful and 10 times nicer than by B8 A4 I traded in to get this S4. Traded it because I felt it was way too underpowered and does not drive nearly as good as the S4.

Now if only BMW had an XI version of the 335D then I would have cross shopped that. Especially since there is a very nice tune out for the D now.

*** Edit to add***

Just noticed your in California... Why even consider an Audi ?? You will never see snow. lol

I would never even consider Audi had it not been for wanting a quattro for the winter. You will definitely enjoy the M3 way more than the S4 you just need to rev it up to get into the fun zone. Good chouice going with the M

[jdgamble]

Cool. That's what I thought too. M3 > S4 > 335. But I really liked the S4. In the end, I spent about 5K more on the M3 but the free maintenance and slightly better resale kinda make up for some of that. Thanks for the 411.