Rail Dust?!?

1SerieStud · 08-07-2010, 10:33 AM

Hello everyone,

I purchased my brand new car nearly a month ago, and have been washing it on a weekly basis - actually planning on a doing a full detail including clay bar and sealant next weekend. I noticed that the car has some very small particles in random places, which seem to be in the clear coat, and they also seem to have started to rust. I don't believe that the paint itself is rusting, but rather the little metallic pieces that I can see have been caught within the clear coat.

Now, I do cross rail road tracks on a daily basis, however, the car is too new and I believe it already came with these - as far as I know, a lot of these vehicles get transported by train.

My questions are: 1) is this what they call rail dust? and 2) how can I get rid of it? Will a clay bar be able to pull these out of the clear coat? Or should I just take the car back to BMW and have them deal with it?

Thank you!

wolfe · 08-07-2010, 12:45 PM

I'm not a detailing expert, but I had this problem horribly on a previous car, and it caused me some real hassle before I figured it out.

My 1 series (not the car I had this issue with) has some little specks in the paint, but they seem to be trapped below the clearcoat and are not rusting.

It's referred to as 'rail dust' because it's often caused by the tiny metallic particles that come off train wheels, tracks, and brakes. On my old car, it was caused by a construction crew cutting rebar in my neighborhood with grinders. Basically it's metal dust that lands on your paint, sticks to the clear coat and rusts.

Cars often get contaminated with it if they're transported by train on an open car carrier, or if they're parked/stored near rail tracks for a long period of time such as at a port waiting to be shipped. Just crossing rail tracks I'm sure you're fine (I cross some too twice every day and no issues).

I tried a new car prep wash which consisted of a 3-part process, acid wash, alkaline wash, and ph neutral wash. This was a pain to use and didn't work well, I wouldn't recommend it.

A good claybar and plenty of quick detail spray worked perfectly, but keep a close eye on whether the clay you're using is 'abrasive' enough. Very mild clays might take forever to get rid of it or maybe not shift it at all. I used sonus gray clay (no longer available, sadly) on my last car and it worked great. It was definitely less mild than the griot's and meguiar's clays I have now. I'm sure some of the detailers here would be able to recommend a good grade of clay.

Following that up with a paint sealant should work great for you.

By coincidence, the car I had this issue with came from the same dealership as yours. I took it back and they were going to try buffing it so I decided to figure it out on my own. Clay will take more time and effort, but would be the better way to handle it in my opinion.

In case you're interested, I got some closeup pictures of before and after (metallic silver car). The blue circle is one of those stick on paper reinforcements for when you hole-punch a piece of paper. You can clearly see in the top one the little speck, and the rust stain that it caused. The second picture shows the same area after claying. It's completely gone and it fixed the problem for good.

1SerieStud · 08-07-2010, 01:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wolfe

I'm not a detailing expert, but I had this problem horribly on a previous car, and it caused me some real hassle before I figured it out.

My 1 series (not the car I had this issue with) has some little specks in the paint, but they seem to be trapped below the clearcoat and are not rusting.

It's referred to as 'rail dust' because it's often caused by the tiny metallic particles that come off train wheels, tracks, and brakes. On my old car, it was caused by a construction crew cutting rebar in my neighborhood with grinders. Basically it's metal dust that lands on your paint, sticks to the clear coat and rusts.

Cars often get contaminated with it if they're transported by train on an open car carrier, or if they're parked/stored near rail tracks for a long period of time such as at a port waiting to be shipped. Just crossing rail tracks I'm sure you're fine (I cross some too twice every day and no issues).

I tried a new car prep wash which consisted of a 3-part process, acid wash, alkaline wash, and ph neutral wash. This was a pain to use and didn't work well, I wouldn't recommend it.

A good claybar and plenty of quick detail spray worked perfectly, but keep a close eye on whether the clay you're using is 'abrasive' enough. Very mild clays might take forever to get rid of it or maybe not shift it at all. I used sonus gray clay (no longer available, sadly) on my last car and it worked great. It was definitely less mild than the griot's and meguiar's clays I have now. I'm sure some of the detailers here would be able to recommend a good grade of clay.

Following that up with a paint sealant should work great for you.

By coincidence, the car I had this issue with came from the same dealership as yours. I took it back and they were going to try buffing it so I decided to figure it out on my own. Clay will take more time and effort, but would be the better way to handle it in my opinion.

In case you're interested, I got some closeup pictures of before and after (metallic silver car). The blue circle is one of those stick on paper reinforcements for when you hole-punch a piece of paper. You can clearly see in the top one the little speck, and the rust stain that it caused. The second picture shows the same area after claying. It's completely gone and it fixed the problem for good.

This is great! Exactly what I needed to know. Thank you very much!

TOGWT · 08-08-2010, 05:45 AM

For a non-invasive method of rail dust removal try AQuartz Iron Cut, spray it on and allow to dwell and then rinse off (unlike detailer's clay it will not leave surface scratches)

1SerieStud · 08-08-2010, 07:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TOGWT

For a non-invasive method of rail dust removal try AQuartz Iron Cut, spray it on and allow to dwell and then rinse off (unlike detailer's clay it will not leave surface scratches)

How effective is this? Have you tried it yourself and does it lead to any secondary/harming effects? Can I get this product on any automotive store?

Thanks!

MuttGrunt · 08-08-2010, 08:15 AM

^ the product is not readily available in local stores which is the problem. Clay can certainly help though it takes time to do it all properly.

This is nothing unusual and is most often easily seen on white cars because of the color contrast. Not only "rail dust" but more than likely it is also the result of specs of brake dust that work their way onto your paint. Once you thoroughly clay / fix the issue, make sure to protect your paint from now on to minimize the problem from here on out.

1SerieStud · 08-08-2010, 11:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MuttGrunt

^ the product is not readily available in local stores which is the problem. Clay can certainly help though it takes time to do it all properly.

This is nothing unusual and is most often easily seen on white cars because of the color contrast. Not only "rail dust" but more than likely it is also the result of specs of brake dust that work their way onto your paint. Once you thoroughly clay / fix the issue, make sure to protect your paint from now on to minimize the problem from here on out.

Thanks for the info. Where can I get the "AQuartz Iron Cut" if not readily available on stores? I've read some bad stories about clay so I definitely do not want to harm the finish on my brand new car. Do you really believe that brake dust made it all the way to the roof and cause this issue in 3 weeks of ownership of my new car? It seems like they were there already possibly from transportation to the dealer.

1SerieStud · 08-10-2010, 06:46 AM

Fellas,

Thanks for all the replies. So I took my car back to the dealer yesterday and found out something extremely interesting. What sits on the surface of my car could be rail dust, however, some of the individuals at the dealer identified it as sprinkler water oxidation (minerals/contaminants in the water that rust), and they said it is very common. If a car sits on the lot for some days, the sprinkles come on and spray the car, and then the water dries on the car, it can lead to this problem. The good news is that this type of oxidation is very superficial and according to them much easier to remove than rail dust which typically goes deeper into the clear coat.

The dealer offered an exterior clay bar and detail to take care of this issue. I have a dark colored car and I know dark paints reflect swirls if not treated correctly. Now I would assume that BMW being a high end brand probaby has a much better detail team/system than the cheaper brands. Would you guys trust the dealer?

BlackjackMulligan · 08-10-2010, 08:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1SerieStud

Now I would assume that BMW being a high end brand probaby has a much better detail team/system than the cheaper brands. Would you guys trust the dealer?

Do not make this assumption....there are many, many stories here of BMW dealers hacking up cars.

I would find a high end local detailer here (or try autopia.org) and see if the dealer is willing to foot the bill for it, or at least part of the bill. This would be a much safer way to go. Good luck!

MuttGrunt · 08-10-2010, 12:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1SerieStud

Thanks for the info. Where can I get the "AQuartz Iron Cut" if not readily available on stores? I've read some bad stories about clay so I definitely do not want to harm the finish on my brand new car. Do you really believe that brake dust made it all the way to the roof and cause this issue in 3 weeks of ownership of my new car? It seems like they were there already possibly from transportation to the dealer.

Thanks for all the replies. So I took my car back to the dealer yesterday and found out something extremely interesting. What sits on the surface of my car could be rail dust, however, some of the individuals at the dealer identified it as sprinkler water oxidation (minerals/contaminants in the water that rust), and they said it is very common. If a car sits on the lot for some days, the sprinkles come on and spray the car, and then the water dries on the car, it can lead to this problem. The good news is that this type of oxidation is very superficial and according to them much easier to remove than rail dust which typically goes deeper into the clear coat.

The dealer offered an exterior clay bar and detail to take care of this issue. I have a dark colored car and I know dark paints reflect swirls if not treated correctly. Now I would assume that BMW being a high end brand probaby has a much better detail team/system than the cheaper brands. Would you guys trust the dealer?

Rust from mineral deposits? Very unlikely. It doesn't matter if you purchased the vehicle brand new - when was it built? The inside of the door will have a sticker with the VIN and other information including the month and year the car was built, and the location the assembly took place. From that month until you owned it - it never was waxed / protected from anything, and as soon as it arrived at the stealership, they took the plastic off and had it sitting on the lot. Their job isn't to sell you a car in perfect condition; their job is to sell you a new car. Mission Accomplished.
I wouldn't trust a dealership to detail my car ever. Their company and reputation isn't based off doing perfectionist style of work. If you want someone's wash boy taking products and equipment to your finish - that's a choice you can certainly make, but I, like Blackjack, would recommend a true professional. Seeing as you're listed in Florida, you have quite a few quality guys in your area that can do things right the first time around.

Good luck getting your situation taken care of and let us all know how things work out!

MuttGrunt · 08-10-2010, 12:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1SerieStud

Thanks for the info. Where can I get the "AQuartz Iron Cut" if not readily available on stores? I've read some bad stories about clay so I definitely do not want to harm the finish on my brand new car. Do you really believe that brake dust made it all the way to the roof and cause this issue in 3 weeks of ownership of my new car? It seems like they were there already possibly from transportation to the dealer.

Thanks for all the replies. So I took my car back to the dealer yesterday and found out something extremely interesting. What sits on the surface of my car could be rail dust, however, some of the individuals at the dealer identified it as sprinkler water oxidation (minerals/contaminants in the water that rust), and they said it is very common. If a car sits on the lot for some days, the sprinkles come on and spray the car, and then the water dries on the car, it can lead to this problem. The good news is that this type of oxidation is very superficial and according to them much easier to remove than rail dust which typically goes deeper into the clear coat.

The dealer offered an exterior clay bar and detail to take care of this issue. I have a dark colored car and I know dark paints reflect swirls if not treated correctly. Now I would assume that BMW being a high end brand probaby has a much better detail team/system than the cheaper brands. Would you guys trust the dealer?

Rust from mineral deposits? Very unlikely compared to rail dust / industrial fallout / brake dust. It doesn't matter if you purchased the vehicle brand new - when was it built? The inside of the door will have a sticker with the VIN and other information including the month and year the car was built, and the location the assembly took place. From that month until you owned it - it never was waxed / protected from anything, and as soon as it arrived at the stealership, they took the plastic off and had it sitting on the lot. Their job isn't to sell you a car in perfect condition; their job is to sell you a new car. Mission Accomplished.
I wouldn't trust a dealership to detail my car ever. Their company and reputation isn't based off doing perfectionist style of work. If you want someone's wash boy taking products and equipment to your finish - that's a choice you can certainly make, but I hope you're not expecting to be amazed. Like Blackjack, I would recommend a true professional. Seeing as you're listed in Florida, you have quite a few quality guys in your area that can do things right the first time around.

Good luck getting your situation taken care of and let us all know how things work out!

TOGWT · 08-11-2010, 04:25 AM

AQuartz Official International Vendors
• USA – http://autoaesthetica.com/

1SerieStud · 08-12-2010, 04:13 PM

For those who have been following this thread, here's a great update!

So, BMW of Orange Park offered to correct the issue, as I mentioned already, which had my skepticism running. A 1-step product (IronCut) was also suggested, and even though it's a great idea and something that I have in mind for the future, the product is not readily available and has to be ordered online. So I said, what the heck, the car is only 4 weeks old, if BMW screws it up, they have to stand behind it, and I decided to give them the benefit of the doubt.

People, I kid you not when I say I'm more than impressed with the service I received. They removed them all and detailed my car within an hour. In addition, I was able to watch them while doing it and they treat cars like newborn babies. The head of the detailing department (I believe his name is Kim), is a very knowledgeable and friendly guy. The girl who actually did the work, Nicole, did an outstanding job. She is very detail oriented and extremely gentle with the cars. I was very grateful for their services and couldn't thank them enough.

For those in the area, I can assure you that your car will be in good hands if you ever decide to have Tom Bush BMW of Orange Park detail your car - and I'm no average individual, as I am extremely picky with my cars, having had 2 black cars before.

As much as I enjoy detailing my cars myself, I am very happy and consider myself lucky to be able to rely on my dealer for this type of things...because I know not many people can say the same about their dealers.

08-07-2010, 10:33 AM	#1
1SerieStud Brigadier General 184 Rep 3,939 Posts Drives: '11 VO 1M (498 of 740) Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Jacksonville, FL iTrader: (11)	Rail Dust?!? Hello everyone, I purchased my brand new car nearly a month ago, and have been washing it on a weekly basis - actually planning on a doing a full detail including clay bar and sealant next weekend. I noticed that the car has some very small particles in random places, which seem to be in the clear coat, and they also seem to have started to rust. I don't believe that the paint itself is rusting, but rather the little metallic pieces that I can see have been caught within the clear coat. Now, I do cross rail road tracks on a daily basis, however, the car is too new and I believe it already came with these - as far as I know, a lot of these vehicles get transported by train. My questions are: 1) is this what they call rail dust? and 2) how can I get rid of it? Will a clay bar be able to pull these out of the clear coat? Or should I just take the car back to BMW and have them deal with it? Thank you!
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08-07-2010, 12:45 PM	#2
wolfe Captain 135 Rep 613 Posts Drives: e82 / e70 / r56 / r60 Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: USA iTrader: (1)	I'm not a detailing expert, but I had this problem horribly on a previous car, and it caused me some real hassle before I figured it out. My 1 series (not the car I had this issue with) has some little specks in the paint, but they seem to be trapped below the clearcoat and are not rusting. It's referred to as 'rail dust' because it's often caused by the tiny metallic particles that come off train wheels, tracks, and brakes. On my old car, it was caused by a construction crew cutting rebar in my neighborhood with grinders. Basically it's metal dust that lands on your paint, sticks to the clear coat and rusts. Cars often get contaminated with it if they're transported by train on an open car carrier, or if they're parked/stored near rail tracks for a long period of time such as at a port waiting to be shipped. Just crossing rail tracks I'm sure you're fine (I cross some too twice every day and no issues). I tried a new car prep wash which consisted of a 3-part process, acid wash, alkaline wash, and ph neutral wash. This was a pain to use and didn't work well, I wouldn't recommend it. A good claybar and plenty of quick detail spray worked perfectly, but keep a close eye on whether the clay you're using is 'abrasive' enough. Very mild clays might take forever to get rid of it or maybe not shift it at all. I used sonus gray clay (no longer available, sadly) on my last car and it worked great. It was definitely less mild than the griot's and meguiar's clays I have now. I'm sure some of the detailers here would be able to recommend a good grade of clay. Following that up with a paint sealant should work great for you. By coincidence, the car I had this issue with came from the same dealership as yours. I took it back and they were going to try buffing it so I decided to figure it out on my own. Clay will take more time and effort, but would be the better way to handle it in my opinion. In case you're interested, I got some closeup pictures of before and after (metallic silver car). The blue circle is one of those stick on paper reinforcements for when you hole-punch a piece of paper. You can clearly see in the top one the little speck, and the rust stain that it caused. The second picture shows the same area after claying. It's completely gone and it fixed the problem for good.
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08-08-2010, 05:45 AM	#4
TOGWT Captain 11 Rep 770 Posts Drives: 630i Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Ponte Vedra Beach, FL / London, UK iTrader: (0)	For a non-invasive method of rail dust removal try AQuartz Iron Cut, spray it on and allow to dwell and then rinse off (unlike detailer's clay it will not leave surface scratches)
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08-08-2010, 08:15 AM	#6
MuttGrunt Banned 27 Rep 872 Posts Drives: beater;) Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: SE Michigan iTrader: (0)	^ the product is not readily available in local stores which is the problem. Clay can certainly help though it takes time to do it all properly. This is nothing unusual and is most often easily seen on white cars because of the color contrast. Not only "rail dust" but more than likely it is also the result of specs of brake dust that work their way onto your paint. Once you thoroughly clay / fix the issue, make sure to protect your paint from now on to minimize the problem from here on out.
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08-10-2010, 06:46 AM	#8
1SerieStud Brigadier General 184 Rep 3,939 Posts Drives: '11 VO 1M (498 of 740) Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Jacksonville, FL iTrader: (11)	Fellas, Thanks for all the replies. So I took my car back to the dealer yesterday and found out something extremely interesting. What sits on the surface of my car could be rail dust, however, some of the individuals at the dealer identified it as sprinkler water oxidation (minerals/contaminants in the water that rust), and they said it is very common. If a car sits on the lot for some days, the sprinkles come on and spray the car, and then the water dries on the car, it can lead to this problem. The good news is that this type of oxidation is very superficial and according to them much easier to remove than rail dust which typically goes deeper into the clear coat. The dealer offered an exterior clay bar and detail to take care of this issue. I have a dark colored car and I know dark paints reflect swirls if not treated correctly. Now I would assume that BMW being a high end brand probaby has a much better detail team/system than the cheaper brands. Would you guys trust the dealer?
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08-11-2010, 04:25 AM	#12
TOGWT Captain 11 Rep 770 Posts Drives: 630i Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Ponte Vedra Beach, FL / London, UK iTrader: (0)	AQuartz Official International Vendors • USA – http://autoaesthetica.com/
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08-12-2010, 04:13 PM	#13
1SerieStud Brigadier General 184 Rep 3,939 Posts Drives: '11 VO 1M (498 of 740) Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Jacksonville, FL iTrader: (11)	For those who have been following this thread, here's a great update! So, BMW of Orange Park offered to correct the issue, as I mentioned already, which had my skepticism running. A 1-step product (IronCut) was also suggested, and even though it's a great idea and something that I have in mind for the future, the product is not readily available and has to be ordered online. So I said, what the heck, the car is only 4 weeks old, if BMW screws it up, they have to stand behind it, and I decided to give them the benefit of the doubt. People, I kid you not when I say I'm more than impressed with the service I received. They removed them all and detailed my car within an hour. In addition, I was able to watch them while doing it and they treat cars like newborn babies. The head of the detailing department (I believe his name is Kim), is a very knowledgeable and friendly guy. The girl who actually did the work, Nicole, did an outstanding job. She is very detail oriented and extremely gentle with the cars. I was very grateful for their services and couldn't thank them enough. For those in the area, I can assure you that your car will be in good hands if you ever decide to have Tom Bush BMW of Orange Park detail your car - and I'm no average individual, as I am extremely picky with my cars, having had 2 black cars before. As much as I enjoy detailing my cars myself, I am very happy and consider myself lucky to be able to rely on my dealer for this type of things...because I know not many people can say the same about their dealers.
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