Are people paying MACO and Training/Service Fee?

TurboHank · 03-27-2010, 08:26 PM

Hey fellas,

I went to get a quote (non European Delivery) from a BMW dealer today for 2011 MY Z4 35i, and two of the line items are:

1. MACO of $400
2. Training /Service Fee of $200

I want to know for all those whose who purchased the Z4 did you all have to pay these two (somewhat fishy looking) fees?

Hank

MilitaryE89 · 03-28-2010, 03:42 AM

training? for what?! and who knows what MACO means...but it is in CAPS, so it must be official and 100% legit ...ha

Kief · 03-28-2010, 06:04 AM

Training is $180, unless it went up. If you could find the "confidential pricing" that use to be posted here and over at the Fest (BMW has asked that they be removed), you would see it is charged to the dealer.

MACO is regional advertising in some parts of the country--some have it, some don't. It seems a bit high, but you are in CA.

alan64 · 03-28-2010, 07:08 AM

I would tell them you dont want to pay for it.

msimon18 · 03-28-2010, 08:55 AM

Wasn't MACO a $29.95 'paint you car' dealer ????

TurboHank · 03-28-2010, 10:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kief

Training is $180, unless it went up. If you could find the "confidential pricing" that use to be posted here and over at the Fest (BMW has asked that they be removed), you would see it is charged to the dealer.

MACO is regional advertising in some parts of the country--some have it, some don't. It seems a bit high, but you are in CA.

Yeah training fee supposedly went up 20 bucks to $200. I did some research online and found that the MACO fee of 400 the dealer charging me is typical in CA. However, are most folks in the US who bought Z4 paying for this two fees?

MilitaryE89 · 03-28-2010, 11:47 AM

i'm calling bullsh!t on this...marketing is a cost they incur trying to get you in the door...seems like it's tantamount to you paying an entrance fee or "thanks for buying a BMW, by the way you owe us $400 bucks for the priviledge"...tell em to shove it up their @sses

Vintage · 03-28-2010, 11:49 AM

my dealer tried hard to charge me similar fees - I walked out in FINANCE refusing! They were saying "everyone pays the fees, etc." I said "no way, sell somebody else your profit fee markups - I am walking." Guess what? The general manager waived the fees.

rmorin49 · 03-28-2010, 12:42 PM

You can call it BS or whatever you want but US dealers will charge for this since this is what BMWNA tells them to do. You can negotiate your deal and tell them you aren't going to pay for it but they have to pay it to BMWNA for every car they sell. This is just how it is. Try to start negotiating from US invoice. Depending on the car, time of year and the dealer the price you pay will vary. Some dealers put the MACO and training fee on the deal, others hide it in the deal. Either way you are paying for it.

Kief · 03-28-2010, 12:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rmorin49

You can call it BS or whatever you want but US dealers will charge for this since this is what BMWNA tells them to do. You can negotiate your deal and tell them you aren't going to pay for it but they have to pay it to BMWNA for every car they sell. This is just how it is. Try to start negotiating from US invoice. Depending on the car, time of year and the dealer the price you pay will vary. Some dealers put the MACO and training fee on the deal, others hide it in the deal. Either way you are paying for it.

+1

rmorin49 · 03-28-2010, 03:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VintageBMW

my dealer tried hard to charge me similar fees - I walked out in FINANCE refusing! They were saying "everyone pays the fees, etc." I said "no way, sell somebody else your profit fee markups - I am walking." Guess what? The general manager waived the fees.

He really didn't "waive" the fees, they just made less money or made it up on your trade, some accessories, etc. BMWNA will get their money from the dealer. A friend who works as a CA says that at the end of the year an adjustment is made to the holdback that is sent to each dealer, this is when BMWNA gets their money.

TurboHank · 03-28-2010, 03:29 PM

Ok so besides the MACO and training/service, a combined total of $600, the price they quoted me is $500 above invoice for a 2011 model year 35i with production date around Apr. Should I just bite the bullet with the $600?

so in essence it is 500+600=1100 above invoice or 500 above invoice depending on which way you want to look at this MACO and training /service fee.

Vintage · 03-28-2010, 03:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rmorin49

He really didn't "waive" the fees, they just made less money or made it up on your trade, some accessories, etc. BMWNA will get their money from the dealer. A friend who works as a CA says that at the end of the year an adjustment is made to the holdback that is sent to each dealer, this is when BMWNA gets their money.

I agree with you on your point about how I paid for it one way or the other - as we all do because the dealer still has to pay those fees as part of their cost. The only difference here is that the deal was done and I was in finance when the charges were brought up as must pays - I said no thanks and walked. In the end, this just means the price to me was cheaper than the dealer had anticipated and they made a little less profit. I was only mad because I had told the sales manager up front I would not pay these vague fees without proof that everyone paid them - no proof as requested at the finance stage so I walked when they tried to charge me. It really was a communication issue and I felt like I was being jerked around.

jparnes1 · 03-28-2010, 04:01 PM

That's a good deal and I'd suggest going for it. Anywhere from $800 to 1500 over is invoice...they're treating you well.

MilitaryE89 · 03-28-2010, 04:22 PM

well, perhaps i am jaded, but i believe that marketing and training should be built into their (BMW AG or/and BMWNA) yearly budget. i understand that it will be passed on to the consumer, but listing it as a seperate cost only serves to infuriate people by presenting the appearance of tacking on additional costs. presented in this way seems to be a poor business practice

rmorin49 · 03-28-2010, 06:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TurboHank

Ok so besides the MACO and training/service, a combined total of $600, the price they quoted me is $500 above invoice for a 2011 model year 35i with production date around Apr. Should I just bite the bullet with the $600?

so in essence it is 500+600=1100 above invoice or 500 above invoice depending on which way you want to look at this MACO and training /service fee.

I agree that to add this at the end of the deal when you are in the finance office is not the right way to do business. Your CA should have brought you the bottom line price before you closed the deal. That said, $1100 over invoice is a good price especially if you are getting the car you want in the chosen color and with the options you want. If not, I would order one and would recommend trying to do an European Delivery if you have the urge to go to Europe.

TurboHank · 03-28-2010, 07:43 PM

Aight, I have now semi officially joined the ranks of Z4 owners. I put my deposit down 5 minutes ago when the dealer called. I managed to get another freebie, the fitted luggage compartment mat (129 msrp) just to make myself feel better.

Hopefully they start production on the car in Apr as the dealer claimed.

matthewz409 · 03-29-2010, 08:25 AM

Saturday I went to the local dealer to order an '11. This was my first time at this dealer since I've moved since my last BMW purchase. They would only go 3% off sticker and were telling me about the MACO and training fees and the normal routine about they don't make any money. I said "here's the invoice price and I'm willing to pay X above it." The sales guy actually told me "We are so busy today we don't need this sale. If you come back on Monday maybe we can do better."

I'm curious to see if he calls today. If not, I will order from my old dealer and do PC delivery.

Kief · 03-29-2010, 10:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by matthewz409

Saturday I went to the local dealer to order an '11. This was my first time at this dealer since I've moved since my last BMW purchase. They would only go 3% off sticker and were telling me about the MACO and training fees and the normal routine about they don't make any money. I said "here's the invoice price and I'm willing to pay X above it." The sales guy actually told me "We are so busy today we don't need this sale. If you come back on Monday maybe we can do better."

I'm curious to see if he calls today. If not, I will order from my old dealer and do PC delivery.

Don't even wait!
If I was told "we don't need this sale..." I would have got up and left and never go back.

Vintage · 03-29-2010, 10:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kief

Don't even wait!
If I was told "we don't need this sale..." I would have got up and left and never go back.

amen

matthewz409 · 03-29-2010, 10:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kief

Don't even wait!
If I was told "we don't need this sale..." I would have got up and left and never go back.

Yea, the nerve. I was completely knocked down - how do you respond to something so unprofessional - I know leave - but who do these guys think they are?!?!

rmorin49 · 03-29-2010, 06:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by matthewz409

Saturday I went to the local dealer to order an '11. This was my first time at this dealer since I've moved since my last BMW purchase. They would only go 3% off sticker and were telling me about the MACO and training fees and the normal routine about they don't make any money. I said "here's the invoice price and I'm willing to pay X above it." The sales guy actually told me "We are so busy today we don't need this sale. If you come back on Monday maybe we can do better."

I'm curious to see if he calls today. If not, I will order from my old dealer and do PC delivery.

Were you at a dealer in Winston-Salem?

03-27-2010, 08:26 PM	#1
TurboHank Private 10 Rep 94 Posts Drives: 2011MY Z4 35i M sports pkg Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: San Francisco iTrader: (0)	Are people paying MACO and Training/Service Fee? Hey fellas, I went to get a quote (non European Delivery) from a BMW dealer today for 2011 MY Z4 35i, and two of the line items are: 1. MACO of $400 2. Training /Service Fee of $200 I want to know for all those whose who purchased the Z4 did you all have to pay these two (somewhat fishy looking) fees? Hank
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03-28-2010, 03:42 AM	#2
MilitaryE89 Private First Class 7 Rep 188 Posts Drives: 2008 328i, 2009 sDrive30i Join Date: May 2009 Location: APO, AE iTrader: (0)	training? for what?! and who knows what MACO means...but it is in CAPS, so it must be official and 100% legit ...ha
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03-28-2010, 06:04 AM	#3
Kief Major General 4440 Rep 5,733 Posts Drives: '24 iX50; '23 i4 M50 Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Vereinigte Staaten von Amerika iTrader: (26)	Training is $180, unless it went up. If you could find the "confidential pricing" that use to be posted here and over at the Fest (BMW has asked that they be removed), you would see it is charged to the dealer. MACO is regional advertising in some parts of the country--some have it, some don't. It seems a bit high, but you are in CA. __________________ __________________ '24-I20 iX 50; '23-G26 i4 M50; '22-G82 M4Cx;20-G05 M50i; '20-F82 M4CS; '18-F80 M3CS; '18-F80 M3CS; '18-F85 X5M; '18-G01 X3M40i; '18-F80 M3ZCP; '17-F80 M3ZCP; '15-F15 X5; '15-F82 M4; '12-E92 335is; '11-E70 X5d; '11-E89 Z435is;'09-E89 Z435i; '08-E92 335i; '06-E90 330i; '05-E83 X3; '04-E83 X3; '03-E46 325Ci* *retired
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03-28-2010, 07:08 AM	#4
alan64 Lieutenant 19 Rep 484 Posts Drives: z4 Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: canada iTrader: (0)	I would tell them you dont want to pay for it.
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03-28-2010, 08:55 AM	#5
msimon18 Retired 19 Rep 868 Posts Drives: Z4 s30i Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: The Villages, FL iTrader: (0) Garage List 1965 Isetta 300 [0.00] 2004 1/5 Scale M3 GTR [10.00]	Wasn't MACO a $29.95 'paint you car' dealer ???? __________________ M3 GTR - 1/5 scale - 4.2 HP w/ Collari hydraulic brakes - would you believe ~80 MPH on straightaway !!
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03-28-2010, 11:47 AM	#7
MilitaryE89 Private First Class 7 Rep 188 Posts Drives: 2008 328i, 2009 sDrive30i Join Date: May 2009 Location: APO, AE iTrader: (0)	i'm calling bullsh!t on this...marketing is a cost they incur trying to get you in the door...seems like it's tantamount to you paying an entrance fee or "thanks for buying a BMW, by the way you owe us $400 bucks for the priviledge"...tell em to shove it up their @sses
	Appreciate 0 Quote

03-28-2010, 11:49 AM	#8
Vintage Colonel 381 Rep 2,588 Posts Drives: BMW G80 (MT), 718 Spyder Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Austin, Texas iTrader: (0)	my dealer tried hard to charge me similar fees - I walked out in FINANCE refusing! They were saying "everyone pays the fees, etc." I said "no way, sell somebody else your profit fee markups - I am walking." Guess what? The general manager waived the fees.
	Appreciate 0 Quote

03-28-2010, 12:42 PM	#9
rmorin49 Major 53 Rep 1,162 Posts Drives: 11 335d/10 Z4 s30i Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Hagerstown, MD iTrader: (1)	You can call it BS or whatever you want but US dealers will charge for this since this is what BMWNA tells them to do. You can negotiate your deal and tell them you aren't going to pay for it but they have to pay it to BMWNA for every car they sell. This is just how it is. Try to start negotiating from US invoice. Depending on the car, time of year and the dealer the price you pay will vary. Some dealers put the MACO and training fee on the deal, others hide it in the deal. Either way you are paying for it. __________________ Colonel (Retired), US Army/Hagerstown, MD 2016 518ixdrive/MSport AW/Ivory White ED-01-10 2010 Z4s30i AW/Beige/Burl/ 6MT/SP/PP/CWP/NAV/ipod/USB/CA (retired) 2011 335d BS/Oyster/PP/CWP/NAV/ipod/USB(Daily Driver) 30+ mpg(retired)
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03-28-2010, 03:29 PM	#12
TurboHank Private 10 Rep 94 Posts Drives: 2011MY Z4 35i M sports pkg Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: San Francisco iTrader: (0)	Ok so besides the MACO and training/service, a combined total of $600, the price they quoted me is $500 above invoice for a 2011 model year 35i with production date around Apr. Should I just bite the bullet with the $600? so in essence it is 500+600=1100 above invoice or 500 above invoice depending on which way you want to look at this MACO and training /service fee.
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03-28-2010, 04:01 PM	#14
jparnes1 Colonel 245 Rep 2,387 Posts Drives: 2016 340i, 2012 Z4 35i Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: NY iTrader: (1)	That's a good deal and I'd suggest going for it. Anywhere from $800 to 1500 over is invoice...they're treating you well.
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03-28-2010, 04:22 PM	#15
MilitaryE89 Private First Class 7 Rep 188 Posts Drives: 2008 328i, 2009 sDrive30i Join Date: May 2009 Location: APO, AE iTrader: (0)	well, perhaps i am jaded, but i believe that marketing and training should be built into their (BMW AG or/and BMWNA) yearly budget. i understand that it will be passed on to the consumer, but listing it as a seperate cost only serves to infuriate people by presenting the appearance of tacking on additional costs. presented in this way seems to be a poor business practice
	Appreciate 0 Quote

03-28-2010, 07:43 PM	#17
TurboHank Private 10 Rep 94 Posts Drives: 2011MY Z4 35i M sports pkg Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: San Francisco iTrader: (0)	Aight, I have now semi officially joined the ranks of Z4 owners. I put my deposit down 5 minutes ago when the dealer called. I managed to get another freebie, the fitted luggage compartment mat (129 msrp) just to make myself feel better. Hopefully they start production on the car in Apr as the dealer claimed.
	Appreciate 0 Quote

03-29-2010, 08:25 AM	#18
matthewz409 New Member 1 Rep 15 Posts Drives: Z4 Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: NC iTrader: (0)	Saturday I went to the local dealer to order an '11. This was my first time at this dealer since I've moved since my last BMW purchase. They would only go 3% off sticker and were telling me about the MACO and training fees and the normal routine about they don't make any money. I said "here's the invoice price and I'm willing to pay X above it." The sales guy actually told me "We are so busy today we don't need this sale. If you come back on Monday maybe we can do better." I'm curious to see if he calls today. If not, I will order from my old dealer and do PC delivery.
	Appreciate 0 Quote