JB+ throwing codes at default setting!

[Alext]

I was following an interesting discussion of a JB+ throwing codes at the default setting, and how an owner with a BT scan was lucky to have cleared the codes prior to service. Seems that it is more risky than the SSTT, which remains the 'safest' tune although not 100%.

Thread here: http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=244474

Seems like a BT scanner is a good investment!

[Alext]

I thought the JB+ and SSTT simply 'trick' the ECU into thinking it is running at a higher altitude thereby adding a little more boost. From my research a tamper code can be thrown with EITHER tune if you do not properly power-down the ECU (ie: disconnect the battery) before installing. This appears to be the only way to throw a tamper code with these tunes?

[Citizen Z]

Originally Posted by Alext

I thought the JB+ and SSTT simply 'trick' the ECU into thinking it is running at a higher altitude thereby adding a little more boost. From my research a tamper code can be thrown with EITHER tune if you do not properly power-down the ECU (ie: disconnect the battery) before installing. This appears to be the only way to throw a tamper code with these tunes?

+1

[rocketpop]

Really not much valuable info in that thread. It turned into a tuner bashing dicussion. I know Mike and Terry were trying to contact the OP to see exactly what happen. I have an 05/08 build with the very latest software and I have the a JB+ set to 75% and have never thrown in codes. I was a beta tester and have been running this way since the first of Feb.

I believe there have been cases of the SSTT to throw codes as well and I agree a BT is a great thing to have. If can fine 2 other people in your area to split the cost, it will be about $100 each. Not a bad deal.

[InsaneSkippy]

Originally Posted by rocketpop

Really not much valuable info in that thread. It turned into a tuner bashing dicussion. I know Mike and Terry were trying to contact the OP to see exactly what happen. I have an 05/08 build with the very latest software and I have the a JB+ set to 75% and have never thrown in codes. I was a beta tester and have been running this way since the first of Feb.

I believe there have been cases of the SSTT to throw codes as well and I agree a BT is a great thing to have. If can fine 2 other people in your area to split the cost, it will be about $100 each. Not a bad deal.

I'm pretty sure JeremyC74 got his powertrain warranty voided because of his SSTT.

[Alext]

Originally Posted by InsaneSkippy

I'm pretty sure JeremyC74 got his powertrain warranty voided because of his SSTT.

Did he leave it in during a service? Just wondering how they could prove that it was the SSTT.

[jeremyc74]

Originally Posted by Alext

Did he leave it in during a service? Just wondering how they could prove that it was the SSTT.

No, I removed it. I also disconnected the battery every time I put it in or took it out.

Here's the exact write up:

Aftermarket control unit installed in the DME wiring harness Ran codes and found 29CE Comustion misfire cylinder 2 and 2D25 Manipulation Prevention, Max Mass Air. The last code I have not seen so I called my FSE and he advised me to remove the DME cover and look for any aftermarket devices installed in the DME box. Found a box wired into the DME harness and taped around connections. Called him back with findings and he told me this is no longer a warranty issue. Also found catalytic converters were removed. No repairs made at this time.

Original Thread:

http://www.1addicts.com/forums/showt...ghlight=voided

[BlackjackMulligan]

Originally Posted by jeremyc74

No, I removed it. I also disconnected the battery every time I put it in or took it out.

Here's the exact write up:

Aftermarket control unit installed in the DME wiring harness Ran codes and found 29CE Comustion misfire cylinder 2 and 2D25 Manipulation Prevention, Max Mass Air. The last code I have not seen so I called my FSE and he advised me to remove the DME cover and look for any aftermarket devices installed in the DME box. Found a box wired into the DME harness and taped around connections. Called him back with findings and he told me this is no longer a warranty issue. Also found catalytic converters were removed. No repairs made at this time.

Original Thread:

http://www.1addicts.com/forums/showt...ghlight=voided

weren't those boxes wired in your O2 sims?

[InsaneSkippy]

Originally Posted by BlackjackMulligan

weren't those boxes wired in your O2 sims?

More than likely, yes. However, with the combination of the "wired box" plus the Tuner Manipulation code, they didn't need to go any further (in their eyes at least).

[Alext]

I think if they had not found anything on your car they would not had enough excuse to void your warranty. Even with the tamper code set. Just no solid proof. This is just my speculation of course.

[jeremyc74]

Originally Posted by BlackjackMulligan

weren't those boxes wired in your O2 sims?

Yeah, and they knew that.


Bottom line is this:

BMW is actively looking for reasons to deny warranty claims on these cars (And I'm not saying I blame them, just stating the facts). If you give them an excuse, they WILL deny it, and you WILL have to fight them for your coverage. The best insurance against that right now seems to be the BT scanner, and if I had it to do over I'd have bought that before I did anything at all to the car.


My advice to anyone planning on tuning the car in any way: Factor a BT scanner into your budget.

[InsaneSkippy]

Originally Posted by Alext

I think if they had not found anything on your car they would not had enough excuse to void your warranty. Even with the tamper code set. Just no solid proof. This is just my speculation of course.

Umm did you read his post?! They scanned his car, found the tuner manipulation code, the dealer didn't know what the code was so they called a higher-up. The higher-up TOLD them to look around for it BECAUSE of the code they found when scanning...

Originally Posted by jeremyc74

My advice to anyone planning on tuning the car in any way: Factor a BT scanner into your budget.

Best advice for anyone running ANY kind of tune.

[Alext]

Yes I read his post. From what I understand, they found some modifications on the car (most suspiciously they "Found a box wired into the DME harness and taped around connections"). What I am trying to say is that if he had removed *all* mods they probably wont have been able to put anything firm on him and likely let it pass with at most some simple verbal questioning. So yes they did discover a tamper code, but without any physical evidence I think it would have been hard for the dealership to prove he did actually mod his car...at least enough to deny an obvious warranty claim.

[InsaneSkippy]

Originally Posted by Alext

Yes I read his post. From what I understand, they found some modifications on the car (most suspiciously they "Found a box wired into the DME harness and taped around connections"). What I am trying to say is that if he had removed *all* mods they probably wont have been able to put anything firm on him and likely let it pass with at most some simple verbal questioning. So yes they did discover a tamper code, but without any physical evidence I think it would have been hard for the dealership to prove he did actually mod his car...at least enough to deny an obvious warranty claim.

Not really, that's WHY the tamper code was put in to place.. BMW isn't dumb enough to go "Well there's nothing in here, that tuner code must have been a mistake." They DESIGNED the engine, they know what causes what problems, what the normal operating range of certain variables should be. The code itself is "proof" that there was some sort of aftermarket computer manipulation.


What about people who run flashed maps? There might not be a physical device in the car, but the ECU has still been altered.


The first sentence of the report seems more like a synopsis, rather than the first chronological step.

[jeremyc74]

Originally Posted by Alext

Yes I read his post. From what I understand, they found some modifications on the car (most suspiciously they "Found a box wired into the DME harness and taped around connections"). What I am trying to say is that if he had removed *all* mods they probably wont have been able to put anything firm on him and likely let it pass with at most some simple verbal questioning. So yes they did discover a tamper code, but without any physical evidence I think it would have been hard for the dealership to prove he did actually mod his car...at least enough to deny an obvious warranty claim.

If I had removed the O2 sims the car would have been throwing converter efficiency codes, and then they would have just blamed the problem on that. The dealership doesn't have to prove anything until you challenge them in arbitration, and that's going to require a lawyer.

Technically they should have had to at lest diagnose the problem before saying the mods caused it, but they didn't. It's also entirely possible that if they need further evidence they could dig into the ECU and look at additional information. I'm a programmer, and there are so many ways I could catch you modifying this car it's not even funny. The simplest way would be to monitor accelleration times in 3rd or 4th gear. If it's exceeding what it would do from the factory, you've obviously done something to it to make it faster. It's also possible to take a snapshot of the information coming back to the ECU when the code was set, and that could very easily tell the story as well.

You can debate it all you want, but if you take your car in and there's a tampering code set, you're in a position to have engine related claims denied. You can spend a $300 up front and prevent it from happening, or a lot more later on to fight them over it. I know which way I'd go.

[LemansE82]

Will the BT detect the tampering code and erase it?

[Yearofthe1]

Originally Posted by xXxMLEExXx

Will the BT detect the tampering code and erase it?

you don't get around much do you?

Why do you think it's being sold?

[InsaneSkippy]

Originally Posted by xXxMLEExXx

Will the BT detect the tampering code and erase it?

Yes, that's why they've become popular recently.