Terminating my lease.

[guarnibl]

I'm done (or, I want to be at this point).

Does anyone know what I'm looking at here in terms of what I have to pay? I didn't quite understand what the lease itself meant in the termination of lease section for option B) (option A was pay the entire lease, which I'm not doing). It appeared that it was $350 + any taxes associated with the termination + the difference in what the car is worth and what you owe.

All of the issues I had came right back, and much worse this time. I'm not dealing with it anymore -- it's already been in the shop for 2 weeks (well, 13 days, but close enough) -- it only has another 17 and I can lemon it. I just don't want to deal with it any more. It's been doing it for a lot longer than 13 days though.. at this point it's been doing it since early January, just not frequently until about 3.5 weeks ago, which then forced me to take it into the shop (initially I was told errors like that were "normal" if they happen once in a while).

I guess I might have to keep it if it's too expensive to terminate. I just am so frustrated at this point and it just doesn't make sense for me to be paying this much for a car that's going to be in and out of the shop so frequently. The fact that other people on the forum are having issues and they still don't know exactly what it is, plus the fact that VOB told me they "knew what was wrong and replaced the faulty part" only to replace it with an obviously FAULTY part again, scares the living crap out of me.

Thoughts? Does BMW usually try to work with you on this? I would certainly buy another BMW again if they help me out here... but if it gets to the point where I do have to lemon it -- pretty much never going to ever even think about buying a BMW again (and I buy cars quite often).

[enfield]

I would suggest a calm and assertive approach. I had a problem with an E85 Z4M. The roof and windows would not synchronize. There were also tons of squeaks and rattles. I kept taking it back. After 5 months of this I got a call from the big boss at BMW Canada (Mr. Duffield) and he replaced my car without any penalty. I elected to get an E86 Z4M instead and that car was bullet proof. I just returned it (leased) 6 months early without penalty today and picked up an E92 M3 (2008) for 500 over wholesale.

I had a bad experience with BMW but they fixed it and more. I was sold on BMW when the President of BMW Canada called me at home!!

[ACZakka325i]

I think people had it much worse with the Fuel Pump failures on the 335i's. They would pay your lease payment for that month, maybe you can get something similar.

I think you may be over reacting. Either that, or the people before you with much larger problems were more patient.

[guarnibl]

Originally Posted by ACZakka325i

I think people had it much worse with the Fuel Pump failures on the 335i's. They would pay your lease payment for that month, maybe you can get something similar.

I think you may be over reacting. Either that, or the people before you with much larger problems were more patient.

I agree I am overreacting And yes, I'm not too patient. But I understand the situation from both BMW and myself. BMW has been more than helpful at this point, and I hope they will work with me here.

I'm buying an M class car -- there shouldn't be these problems. If there are, I expect them to be resolved (not take 2 weeks) within a reasonable time frame, and if not -- I should be let out of the lease.

I calculated the cost I would have to pay and it's about $4000 based on wholesale cost, since that's how they calculate the realized value of the car. I'm expecting not to have to pay that with the issues I've had, so we'll see.

I LOVE this car. I don't WANT to get rid of it, but I'm not going to sit around and pay for BMW R&D to figure out the design problems in their car.

[needspeed]

I understand your frustration and disappointment. But try to calm down, on occasion this stuff happens. It is not fair and you do not deserve it.

Give BMW a chance to make it right and I am sure they will. I know this sucks for you but the M3 is a great car.

I hope this will be fixed very soon and you will forget the hard times and enjoy your car…….good luck…..Steve

[NewM3driver]

What you need to do is call BMWNA and ask for a "replacement of collateral". That means they replace your existing car with a brand new one for the remainder of the lease. (you can even purchase the newer car at your "old" residual at the end of the lease)

Calm and cool but assertive gets you there with this one... BMW is a great company and will always stand behind the car. If your dealer won't cooperate, ask the BMW rep to hook you up with one that will.

PM me if you want to talk. I have had a car replaced by BMW and it could not have been easier.

[guarnibl]

Thank you guys so much for your input.

I've calmed down quite a bit and still think it's the best decision to terminate the lease. I'm just not going to be able to get the utility out of the car with what's happened always sitting on the back of my mind. And after all, that's what we're buying the car for.

I will re-evaluate my decision after I talk to BMW. However, I'm probably going to take some time away from the car and come back in 9-12 months and see what progress they've made in terms of reliability of the car. I will then purchase another if I feel I can get the utility out of it.

[CMOS]

I would clearly document all the problems you've had in a letter. Attach copies of your service receipts. Your letter does NOT need to make a specific demand, but you might want to ask for a new car in the letter.

Then make an appt with the general manager of VOB. Go in and explain the situation, and give him a copy of the letter.

If he doesn't agree, tell him that you are going to bring the car in every time it throws an error, and that you will document it all, and then lemon the car.

BTW, I would hit them pretty hard with their statement to you that "the car is like a fancy computer and will have various random errors." That's the biggest load of excuse BS I've heard from a dealer in a long time. (At least since BMW told me that my E46 valve tick was normal.)

You can't just roll over and pay the $4000 or whatever it is to get out.

How about a 2009 E93? I would expect that they would work with you on this.

BTW, have you called BMW North America? They have a customer service line that is fairly responsive. You just need to figure out exactly what you need and then seek it.

I might recommend that you call BMW NA first, tell them about the situation, get a case number (or whatever that would be) and then, when you talk to the GM at VOB, you can tell him that you've been in touch with BMWNA (case no, etc). That way they will know that this case is being escalated, that you are serious and not going away.

Heck, call BMW NA, tell them about your case, and fax them your summary of problems and service records. Then when you talk to VOB, you can tell them that BMWNA cust svc has your service records in hand.

I would just do everything I could to ramp up the pressure on VOB. Then give it one more chance - give me a BMW loaner, fix the car for real, refund my payments, and we can stay in the car.

If the car isn't fixed in one more visit, you are out.

So:
1. summarize your problems
2. call/send summary to BMWNA.
3. meet with the GM at VOB.
4. tell him he is getting one last and final chance to fix the car properly before you get medieval on him and demand that the lease be terminated at no cost to you AND that your payments be refunded.

PS, as a totally different approach, you could possibly demand an E92 M3 loaner for a month or whatever while they screw with your car. Just a possibility...

[guarnibl]

You can't just roll over and pay the $4000 or whatever it is to get out.

Yes I can. Why do you say differently?

EDIT: You're saying I shouldn't just let them walk all over me, yes?

I may consider an 09... MIGHT. But it would take a lot of convincing.

[CMOS]

Originally Posted by guarnibl

EDIT: You're saying I shouldn't just let them walk all over me, yes?

Right. BMW is a global company that exists to make money for its shareholders, like all other companies.
You've been wronged. BMW needs to pay you, not the other way around.

[MrHarris]

Get an 09! Just relax, if you can get it lemoned that would be great and have them pay for your months lease payment since it would be in the shop the majority of the time.

[gemini330zhp]

I think there is a BMW NA guy in the forum I wonder if he could help you out with your situation.

[guarnibl]

BMW NA has been awesome so far!!! I really actually enjoy talking to them when I call.

However, it doesn't change my situation. I just hope they're willing to salvage my relationship and let me walk away from the lease. I WILL buy another BMW if that happens (since I know I'm not taking a risk by buying a high performance car from them).

[guarnibl]

Originally Posted by MrHarris

Get an 09! Just relax, if you can get it lemoned that would be great and have them pay for your months lease payment since it would be in the shop the majority of the time.

No -- if I choose the lemon route, that's a LOSE LOSE given the fact that they have the opportunity to simply let me walk away, fix the car properly once they know what's wrong with it (I don't want to wait, and I don't want to risk another M3 breaking on me again -- not until an official recall notice has come out and fixes these issues), and re-sell it.

If I lemon it -- that goes on the record, must be disclosed, de-values the car a TON, BMW loses all of the money from the lease, completely ruins the relationship between BMW and the customer. Absolutely lose lose.

[guarnibl]

Originally Posted by CMOS

Right. BMW is a global company that exists to make money for its shareholders, like all other companies.
You've been wronged. BMW needs to pay you, not the other way around.

That's what I thought you meant.

I entirely agree, and I really don't want an '09 - BMW doesn't even know what the problems are! They keep replacing stuff that's "faulty" that doesn't fix the problem. It's happened to tons of people on the board alone. I don't want another BMW M3 unless there are official recall notices stating that the issue is resolved, and even then... it's just left a sour taste in my mouth. If BMW is willing to salvage my relationship -- they'll let me walk away with no penalty on the car and I'll GLADLY (GLADLY!) come back and buy one in 9-12 months.

I will go the lemon route if I have to -- but I don't think BMW would let it get to that point. They would lose a lot of money, and ruin the relationship. I've bought a BMW 330, and now the M3. It's obvious I'll be back to buy more cars if they salvage the relationship and let me walk away without any penalty. I was already considering getting an M6 in the year when I get married to go on top of the M3.

Also, should I contact the dealer on this issue, or BMW NA?

[CMOS]

Originally Posted by guarnibl

Also, should I contact the dealer on this issue, or BMW NA?

Both. I't my personal opinion that you should contact BMW NA first. Maybe, you will get lucky they will take over for you with VOB and work it out. So it might be an extra day or two for BMW NA to look into the issues, contact VOB, etc.

Even if BMW NA doesn't take over, I just think that you will be in a little better bargaining position if you can tell VOB that BMW NA has been advised of the situation and is monitoring it. Certainly, it's not that you are being hostile to threatening them with BMW NA or anything like that.

In any case, your lease payments are to BMW NA, not VOB. VOB has already "sold" the car, they are done. In fact, they are making all kinds of money off of you now because they can bill the warranty work back to BMW NA. You are their best customer.

BMW NA wants those lease payments to keep coming, so they might take a slightly different view of things.

[guarnibl]

Originally Posted by CMOS

Both. I't my personal opinion that you should contact BMW NA first. Maybe, you will get lucky they will take over for you with VOB and work it out. So it might be an extra day or two for BMW NA to look into the issues, contact VOB, etc.

Even if BMW NA doesn't take over, I just think that you will be in a little better bargaining position if you can tell VOB that BMW NA has been advised of the situation and is monitoring it. Certainly, it's not that you are being hostile to threatening them with BMW NA or anything like that.

In any case, your lease payments are to BMW NA, not VOB. VOB has already "sold" the car, they are done. In fact, they are making all kinds of money off of you now because they can bill the warranty work back to BMW NA. You are their best customer.

BMW NA wants those lease payments to keep coming, so they might take a slightly different view of things.

If I terminate the lease, the car goes back to BMW, yes? I assume it does not go back to VOB?

BMW NA is already monitoring the issues with VOB. I'm actually back and forth on VOB -- they're really nice, friendly, and try to accommodate, but they don't get stuff done right, and it certainly confirms what I was warned about initially. But I mean, they're a big dealer, it's certainly harder to manage and organize that many people, so I give them credit when they do try and make things right for me. They're always professional and courteous, and the SA is really familiar with me now, and just in general a cool guy and easy to deal with.

I'll probably just call BMW NA tomorrow and tell them what I want to do and see what they say. I do absolutely expect them to allow me to walk away from the lease without anywhere even close to the penalty charges. But again, I really do not want to take a new M3. I would entertain the offer, but ultimately -- I still will not feel comfortable doing it at this point. I need time away from the M3 until I see how the next 9-12 months go. At that point, if things are better, I'll come back and buy it. I don't think that type of request is that unreasonable, do you? I suppose there's no guarantee I'd actually come back and buy one, but I've bought 2 BMW's now and I'm sure that'll show I'm a loyal customer... and I don't think they want to lose that permanently.

[ZoinksM3]

Yeah, before you dump your lease, at least escalate to BMWNA. If you are that unhappy, I would hope you've already escalated within your dealership.

Anyhoo, you will have to talk to somebody to get your lease termination fees waived anyway. I hope they will set you up. From what I've heard/seen, they will, more often than not.

But two weeks, really? Isn't that generally the time required to get parts from Germany (10 days)?

[ygfamily21]

Originally Posted by guarnibl

If I terminate the lease, the car goes back to BMW, yes? I assume it does not go back to VOB?

BMW NA is already monitoring the issues with VOB. I'm actually back and forth on VOB -- they're really nice, friendly, and try to accommodate, but they don't get stuff done right, and it certainly confirms what I was warned about initially. But I mean, they're a big dealer, it's certainly harder to manage and organize that many people, so I give them credit when they do try and make things right for me. They're always professional and courteous, and the SA is really familiar with me now, and just in general a cool guy and easy to deal with.

I'll probably just call BMW NA tomorrow and tell them what I want to do and see what they say. I do absolutely expect them to allow me to walk away from the lease without anywhere even close to the penalty charges. But again, I really do not want to take a new M3. I would entertain the offer, but ultimately -- I still will not feel comfortable doing it at this point. I need time away from the M3 until I see how the next 9-12 months go. At that point, if things are better, I'll come back and buy it. I don't think that type of request is that unreasonable, do you? I suppose there's no guarantee I'd actually come back and buy one, but I've bought 2 BMW's now and I'm sure that'll show I'm a loyal customer... and I don't think they want to lose that permanently.

I totally feel your pain. If I was in your position I would do the same thing. It is your money and if you dont feel happy then you shouldnt spend that much of money for the car you dont trust...

[J08M3]

My father had a 545 leased, it kept having problems. They could never figure out what was wrong with it. BMW replaced the car with a 550 a year later and kept the original lease. All they did was change the VIN numbers on the lease, but car was a year brand new and a year newer for no cost to him.

[guarnibl]

Originally Posted by ZoinksM3

Yeah, before you dump your lease, at least escalate to BMWNA. If you are that unhappy, I would hope you've already escalated within your dealership.

Anyhoo, you will have to talk to somebody to get your lease termination fees waived anyway. I hope they will set you up. From what I've heard/seen, they will, more often than not.

But two weeks, really? Isn't that generally the time required to get parts from Germany (10 days)?

No -- it shouldnt have been in there that long, and they didn't fix the problem. They said they replaced the faulty part that was causing it, and all of the problems came back last night, but this time much much worse. They also created a new problem that causes a very loud vibration / rattling coming from the engine bay. I almost got into a car accident last night because of the problem coming back. The entire car basically locked up. I had to use the e-brake. Then the car wouldn't turn back on for a few minutes. I had to call BMW SOS.

[Kev]

Originally Posted by guarnibl

No -- it shouldnt have been in there that long, and they didn't fix the problem. They said they replaced the faulty part that was causing it, and all of the problems came back last night, but this time much much worse. They also created a new problem that causes a very loud vibration / rattling coming from the engine bay. I almost got into a car accident last night because of the problem coming back. The entire car basically locked up. I had to use the e-brake. Then the car wouldn't turn back on for a few minutes. I had to call BMW SOS.

That is a safety issue. You really should contact BMW NA and have them send a field rep /engineer down to your dealer to inspect the car. Calmly explain that you almost got into an accident because of the car's problem and demand they take care of your lease payment and give you a BMW loaner while your M is in the shop. Give them one more chance to fix the problem but remind them that this is a SAFETY ISSUE and you could be seriously injured because of their faulty car. You should have enough leverage to get a replacement.

As far as your comments of your expectation from an M class, I'm sorry to break this to you, it's really no different from a regular BMW. In fact, the M models could be worse than regular series. Take a look at the M5/6's with SMG problems, M3's with M-DCT stall / lag issues, E46 M3s that had engine replacements. It's a car. It can be fixed and when they run out of options, they have to man up and replace it for you.