Structural Integrity after T-bone Crash

Tut · 02-22-2009, 02:09 PM

I am looking for professional advice that can be referenced. My question is not related to my 2008 M3, but it's about my wife's 2007 MB S550. A minivan ran the redlight and T-boned the S550 on the passenger side, luckily my wife got out unharmed except for muscle strains that will heal with physical therapy. The body shop estimated the repairs around $25,000 with 7 hours to fix the unibody/B-pillar. I am worried about whether this car would be able to sustain another impact after it's been repaired and provide the same protection it did during the 1st accident. I know that this is an M3 forum but I figured one of its members might be able to guide me so I can make a case with our insurance company. I checked several web sites and most of them state that a good body shop can restore the car to its previous condition before the accident. I feel that it could look and drive fine but integrity-wise it's not going to be the same. I would appreciate any advice with proper reference that I can use to strengthen my position. Thanks.

kenwelch · 02-22-2009, 03:31 PM

The vehicle can be restored to full structural integrity. Proper repair requires that the body technician and insurance company work together to actually repair the vehicle to Mercedes Benz and I-CAR standards. The damaged vehicle should be inspected by an I-CAR certified technician with MB repair experience. They will make recommendations to your insurance company and if allowed to correctly repair the damage there should not be anything left to create a weak point during future use or accident. The best way to “make a case” for not repairing the vehicle is with the help of a certified technician that has MB experience. The technician should be able to show you why he can repair the vehicle without concern. A good shop will be able to explain the repair that will be completed.

If the structural integrity cannot be restored the technician and insurance company should agree that the vehicle should be “totaled” as un-repairable.
Locate an I-CAR and ASE certified body shop that specializes in MB body repair. Your dealer should be able to help. Here is a link to the I-CAR locater:

http://www.goldclass.com/html/what_e...choosing.shtml

Their business locator might also be helpful:

https://my.i-car.com/eweb/DynamicPag...oldclasssearch

I-CAR has put together research and training for many years to improve the quality of Unibody repairs. Manufacturers like MB have worked with I-CAR to provide the best repair methods.

I taught I-CAR technician update classes in south Orange County, CA during the 1980’s and I am a certified ASE Master Body and Paint Technician. Do a thorough job of researching the body shop for the repair and you will be much happier in the end. This may require that you spend a little more moving the vehicle to a qualified shop or for the extra time that they may spend with you.

MMMorish · 02-22-2009, 04:09 PM

If you're gonna make a $25000 insurance claim, might as well get your insurance company to write the car off and get yourself something new.

Your car may get fixed right, but it will always have a damaged title to it and will effect resale.

kenwelch · 02-22-2009, 04:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MMMorish

If you're gonna make a $25000 insurance claim, might as well get your insurance company to write the car off and get yourself something new.

Your car may get fixed right, but it will always have a damaged title to it and will effect resale.

Because the insurance company doesn't want to give up $35,000 (approx value - cost of correct repair).

In the US a $25,000 repair does not create a "damaged title".

Tut · 02-22-2009, 06:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kenwelch

Because the insurance company doesn't want to give up $35,000 (approx value - cost of correct repair).

In the US a $25,000 repair does not create a "damaged title".

The body shop is Eveland Bros. and it's I-Class Certified. I believe the repair cost will eventually exceed 25K. They just started working on the car and it's always the case that they find additional items to replace. If the cost exceeds 25K, how should I proceed with my insurance company? My wife wasn't at fault and the other driver's policy is paying all the claims. Car rental is approximately 1000/mo, plus Medical claims which will exceed 10K. Where do you draw the line and declare the car as "total loss'. Before the accident, the retail price for the car was 70K. Thank you for your valuable feedback.

MMMorish · 02-22-2009, 06:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tut

The body shop is Eveland Bros. and it's I-Class Certified. I believe the repair cost will eventually exceed 25K. They just started working on the car and it's always the case that they find additional items to replace. If the cost exceeds 25K, how should I proceed with my insurance company? My wife wasn't at fault and the other driver's policy is paying all the claims. Car rental is approximately 1000/mo, plus Medical claims which will exceed 10K. Where do you draw the line and declare the car as "total loss'. Before the accident, the retail price for the car was 70K. Thank you for your valuable feedback.

I'm not sure how things work in the US, but I would assess the total damage value of the vehicle, the rental and the medical and get your lawyer to draft up a nice $300 letter that says that $XX XXX is what the other driver's insurance owes you.

Then you take that money, pay the medical and rehab expense first (as your wifes health is more important than any car) and then buy your wife a new car.

Kev · 02-22-2009, 06:39 PM

Depends on the insurance company, usually if the damage exceeds approx 70% of the CURRENT value of the car, they'll consider totaling the car.

MMMorish · 02-22-2009, 06:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kev

Depends on the insurance company, usually if the damage exceeds approx 70% of the CURRENT value of the car, they'll consider totaling the car.

Let's see, if the car retailed for 70K in 07', the car is probably worth 45-50K now. So if you make a 40K claim then it looks like they'll write it off.

Kev · 02-22-2009, 06:45 PM

Usually some where around 35K damage will do. The repair adds up really quick especially if there are multiple air bags deployed.

Bateman · 02-22-2009, 07:00 PM

Maybe it's just me, but a car is never the same after an accident like that. There is always rattles, grinding noises, electrical problems.....etc. Driving a repaired car just feels wierd.

ChinoOrtega · 02-22-2009, 07:24 PM

I thought it was T Bone from this forum, man I was worried, thank god your wife is ok

darkalley · 02-22-2009, 09:21 PM

do you own the car or lease? if you own make sure you go after them for diminished value. that car will be tough to sell/trade in.

thread killer · 02-22-2009, 09:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bateman

Maybe it's just me, but a car is never the same after an accident like that. There is always rattles, grinding noises, electrical problems.....etc. Driving a repaired car just feels wierd.

sounds like you have driven some really shitty repaired cars.

Bateman · 02-22-2009, 09:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thread killer

sounds like you have driven some really shitty repaired cars.

Similar accident happened to my father's MB E55 and my brother was involved in another accident with his MB C240.

Tut · 02-22-2009, 10:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MMMorish

Let's see, if the car retailed for 70K in 07', the car is probably worth 45-50K now. So if you make a 40K claim then it looks like they'll write it off.

The car retailed for 92K in 07, and now it retails for 70K. So, we're looking for at 49-50K in repairs/medical/car rental/diminished value (estimated at 15K by MB dealership). I think it'll add up to more than 50K.

Tut · 02-22-2009, 10:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChinoOrtega

I thought it was T Bone from this forum, man I was worried, thank god your wife is ok

Thank you for your concern, I am lucky she was in such a well built car which saved her life.

Malky · 02-23-2009, 08:47 AM

From an engineers prospective I don't see how a car can be the same after an accident. Specially if it involves straightening the frame. Do the body shops weld on stiffeners after they straighten the frame? If they don't the frame will never be as strong as before unless they heat treat the metal.

kenwelch · 02-23-2009, 01:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Malky

From an engineers prospective I don't see how a car can be the same after an accident. Specially if it involves straightening the frame. Do the body shops weld on stiffeners after they straighten the frame? If they don't the frame will never be as strong as before unless they heat treat the metal.

There is not a "frame" on a unibody vehicle. The damaged structural parts are replaced not straightened. Non-structural parts can be straightened.
I-CAR has spent alot of research time along with manufacturers on the proper repair methods......where to replace, how to weld, and rust protection methods during and after the repair.

In a properly repaired vehicle most owners and many auto technicians will not be able to tell the vehicle was repaired. What I am describing is not "shadetree" repair work. The engineers have crash tested repair vehicles to determine the proper methods and factory replacement parts are used.

02-22-2009, 02:09 PM	#1
Tut Private 9 Rep 77 Posts Drives: 2008 M3 Coupe (Sold), 2016 M3 Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Overland Park, KS iTrader: (0)	Structural Integrity after T-bone Crash I am looking for professional advice that can be referenced. My question is not related to my 2008 M3, but it's about my wife's 2007 MB S550. A minivan ran the redlight and T-boned the S550 on the passenger side, luckily my wife got out unharmed except for muscle strains that will heal with physical therapy. The body shop estimated the repairs around $25,000 with 7 hours to fix the unibody/B-pillar. I am worried about whether this car would be able to sustain another impact after it's been repaired and provide the same protection it did during the 1st accident. I know that this is an M3 forum but I figured one of its members might be able to guide me so I can make a case with our insurance company. I checked several web sites and most of them state that a good body shop can restore the car to its previous condition before the accident. I feel that it could look and drive fine but integrity-wise it's not going to be the same. I would appreciate any advice with proper reference that I can use to strengthen my position. Thanks.
	Appreciate 0 Tweet Quote

02-22-2009, 03:31 PM	#2
kenwelch Lieutenant 96 Rep 545 Posts Drives: 2008 E92 M3 M-DCT & 2017 440GC Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Mission Viejo, CA iTrader: (0)	The vehicle can be restored to full structural integrity. Proper repair requires that the body technician and insurance company work together to actually repair the vehicle to Mercedes Benz and I-CAR standards. The damaged vehicle should be inspected by an I-CAR certified technician with MB repair experience. They will make recommendations to your insurance company and if allowed to correctly repair the damage there should not be anything left to create a weak point during future use or accident. The best way to “make a case” for not repairing the vehicle is with the help of a certified technician that has MB experience. The technician should be able to show you why he can repair the vehicle without concern. A good shop will be able to explain the repair that will be completed. If the structural integrity cannot be restored the technician and insurance company should agree that the vehicle should be “totaled” as un-repairable. Locate an I-CAR and ASE certified body shop that specializes in MB body repair. Your dealer should be able to help. Here is a link to the I-CAR locater: http://www.goldclass.com/html/what_e...choosing.shtml Their business locator might also be helpful: https://my.i-car.com/eweb/DynamicPag...oldclasssearch I-CAR has put together research and training for many years to improve the quality of Unibody repairs. Manufacturers like MB have worked with I-CAR to provide the best repair methods. I taught I-CAR technician update classes in south Orange County, CA during the 1980’s and I am a certified ASE Master Body and Paint Technician. Do a thorough job of researching the body shop for the repair and you will be much happier in the end. This may require that you spend a little more moving the vehicle to a qualified shop or for the extra time that they may spend with you.
	Appreciate 0 Quote

02-22-2009, 04:09 PM	#3
MMMorish Just call me J.J. McClure 156 Rep 2,834 Posts Drives: E92 M3 & C4 Corvette Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Toronto iTrader: (5)	If you're gonna make a $25000 insurance claim, might as well get your insurance company to write the car off and get yourself something new. Your car may get fixed right, but it will always have a damaged title to it and will effect resale. __________________ MODS: Meisterschaft GT Racing Exhaust / BMC Air Filter / UUC SSK & DSSR (Modded)/ RPI Scoops / Passport SRX Hardwired / Custom Wrap 3M Clearbra / 20% Tint / 50% Windshield Tint / Key Hole Delete / Matted Out Accessories / VRS Type II Diffuser / Smoked Reflectors / Euphoria 6K LED Interior Lights / Rear Fog Light Mod / 6000K HID's / 6500K LUX H8 Angel Eyes / RDash License Plate LED Kit / LED Xenon Reverse Lights "M3 drivers have no friends"
	Appreciate 0 Quote

02-22-2009, 06:39 PM	#7
Kev Critical Care Anesthesiologist 481 Rep 8,828 Posts Drives: SMB F83 Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Seattle, WA iTrader: (24) Garage List 2009 Porsche 911 Ca ... [9.50]	Depends on the insurance company, usually if the damage exceeds approx 70% of the CURRENT value of the car, they'll consider totaling the car. __________________ kev { divinum est sedate dolorem } "your friendly neighborhood critical care anesthesiologist"
	Appreciate 0 Quote

02-22-2009, 06:45 PM	#9
Kev Critical Care Anesthesiologist 481 Rep 8,828 Posts Drives: SMB F83 Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Seattle, WA iTrader: (24) Garage List 2009 Porsche 911 Ca ... [9.50]	Usually some where around 35K damage will do. The repair adds up really quick especially if there are multiple air bags deployed. __________________ kev { divinum est sedate dolorem } "your friendly neighborhood critical care anesthesiologist"
	Appreciate 0 Quote

02-22-2009, 07:00 PM	#10
Bateman Member 3 Rep 123 Posts Drives: E92 M3 Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Vancouver iTrader: (0)	Maybe it's just me, but a car is never the same after an accident like that. There is always rattles, grinding noises, electrical problems.....etc. Driving a repaired car just feels wierd.
	Appreciate 0 Quote

02-22-2009, 07:24 PM	#11
ChinoOrtega Captain 50 Rep 604 Posts Drives: 991 C2S Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Guatemala iTrader: (0)	I thought it was T Bone from this forum, man I was worried, thank god your wife is ok
	Appreciate 0 Quote

02-22-2009, 09:21 PM	#12
darkalley Captain 85 Rep 655 Posts Drives: Gone- 08 DCT SSII, 2006 SMG Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Current: 2014 BMW 4-Series Convert for the fiance w M Package, F150, 06 S2000, 08 911 c4s iTrader: (0)	do you own the car or lease? if you own make sure you go after them for diminished value. that car will be tough to sell/trade in. __________________ 2008 SSII DCT M3/Peapack/Parsippany NJ
	Appreciate 0 Quote

02-23-2009, 08:47 AM	#17
Malky New Member 0 Rep 20 Posts Drives: 08 SSII M3 DCT E92 Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Lynnwood, WA iTrader: (0)	From an engineers prospective I don't see how a car can be the same after an accident. Specially if it involves straightening the frame. Do the body shops weld on stiffeners after they straighten the frame? If they don't the frame will never be as strong as before unless they heat treat the metal.
	Appreciate 0 Quote