Visiting Tech says NO to early oil change.

[Swift135]

I spoke with a visiting Master Technical adviser form BMW Germany today and he says DO NOT change the run in oil before 20K km. He says it a special run in oil that is formulated for the N54 engine and it should consume between 1 to 1.5 lt of the stuff during the 20K "run in" period. He also said if the oil had to be drained for whatever reason the "run in" oil should be put back in? If you change to the recommended oil as in the manual before the 20K km mark that the engine may always consume more oil that normal due to improper bedding-in. He also said that BMW engine dept. have done years of testing to get the run in oils and procedures correct so why would you jeopardize your engine by doing something else.
I don't want to start a flame war but this is a run down of what the guy said:iono:.

[takahashi]

Did WAY said that your oil temp is over 110 without trying? I mean you can boil your oil to nothing within a few metres of driving and they said not to touch it for 20000km.

Logic? Where?

[Swift135]

Boiling point of water is about 100 deg, boiling point of synthetic engine oil is over 300 deg. I take a bath in water about 36deg so 1/3 boiling point of oil might be just right for your engine internals to be bathed in.?? The valve to the oil cooling radiator doesn't even open till the temp reaches 120 deg.

[WAY]

I have already changed my oil after the first track day and at 1400km. THere is no way I will keep the same oil for 20000km!

[takahashi]

Originally Posted by Swift135

Boiling point of water is about 100 deg, boiling point of synthetic engine oil is over 300 deg. I take a bath in water about 36deg so 1/3 boiling point of oil might be just right for your engine internals to be bathed in.?? The valve to the oil cooling radiator doesn't even open till the temp reaches 120 deg.

......................... :eyebulge:

I don't know your background. But from my extensive reading of highly informative mod magazine from Japan for 5 years, the consistent message from all the magazines is that the oil changes its nature (which may mean its usefulness in engine protection) at 120 degree. People who track regularly in Japan were advise to change oil when the oil temperature go over 120 degree for a period of time. The highest point of my Defi gauage is 150 degree... not 310.

I doubt anything will be different in Europe.

If your oil cooler does not open below 120... I think there is something wrong. A thermostat mod is required.

[AussieRacer]

On a hot day in my race car if the oil temp gets about 120 degrees I'm putting my engine in danger as the oil (5W-30) isn't doing it's best at that temp to protect things. Ideal temp is between 80-110 degrees. Now if you're using 0W-40 or something even heavier higher temps around 150 degrees (like takahashi said) are where you should start panicking.

In fact in the N54 section the PDFs about the engine state that the ECU starts limiting the engine output when oil temp hits 150 degrees. It pretty much shuts everything done once it hits 163 degrees...

I'll definitely be changing my oil around the 3000km mark.

[imported_Dodgy]

Don't mean to be rude, by why are you guys claiming to know better than a tech advisor from BMW?

Granted if you are regularly tracking, that may be different. In that case, however, the engine will fail earlier for obvious reasons, oil change or not.

For the rest of us plods, I think I'll listen to the tech man.

It's a bit like patients coming in and telling me how to do an operation, because they read it on the net.

Listen to the experts who make the engines, not armchair (desk chair) experts!

[Swift135]

I agree, there is no reason that BMW would be condoning something that would be to the detriment of their engines. Come on, they have been known for years for making the worlds best engines, thats a fact. By the way this guy burred up when I questioned how could a fresh oil change not be of benefit; he was adamant that the engine would seat in better with the factory oil fill being used until the car signals that its time for a change. From that point on change the oil as often as you want. He suggested that the initial oil had something in it to help the parts wear in, and that the rubbing/wearing in, with this oil, set up the engine for a long functional life. The subsequent oil changes are all about maintaining that "tightness" and keep wear to a minimum. He stressed that it would take about 20 000km to get the engine to its most efficient point and this was done with the "special" factory run in oil. He convinced me. But I didn't ask what the regime would be if you planned on racing the car on a track for 1 hour every 2 weeks.??

[EspressoBoy]

Everyone knows OIL is probably the most important service area of the car. I was so tempted to change my oil soon. I have 2k KM now. After reading this, I want to hear it from BMW master tech myself. I do not doubt that you were told this, because it is what the CA told me too. But... I want the data behind it. I want to know what is in the first oil. I think it is fair that in such an important area, alost everyone should agree. Obviously there are 2 types of drivers here; track/race and non-track/race and somewhere inbetween. So 2 ways of looking at the car. You would think that BMW somewhere on the net would have every detail as to why or why not change. After all, what if you are the unlucky guy with metal debris in your first oil? Hmmm such an easy thing is such a hard thing to get everyone to agree on.

BTW Dr., if I have a Dr. who is going to operate on me or a family member, he/she should be able to answer all my questions fist. If I have some conflicting data, I would hope he/she would be able to tell me why his answer is different. That is what I am looking for too. BTW I think Dr's are super people; helping people live better/longer! How cool is that! I want to help my new addition to the family live long too.

EspressoBoy

[taiheung]

Originally Posted by Swift135

I spoke with a visiting Master Technical adviser form BMW Germany today and he says DO NOT change the run in oil before 20K km. He says it a special run in oil that is formulated for the N54 engine and it should consume between 1 to 1.5 lt of the stuff during the 20K "run in" period. He also said if the oil had to be drained for whatever reason the "run in" oil should be put back in? If you change to the recommended oil as in the manual before the 20K km mark that the engine may always consume more oil that normal due to improper bedding-in. He also said that BMW engine dept. have done years of testing to get the run in oils and procedures correct so why would you jeopardize your engine by doing something else.
I don't want to start a flame war but this is a run down of what the guy said:iono:.

20,000kms!?!! This isn't a typo right??
So wait, what on earth will they do at the first service then?

[takahashi]

Originally Posted by espressoboy

BTW Dr., if I have a Dr. who is going to operate on me or a family member, he/she should be able to answer all my questions fist. If I have some conflicting data, I would hope he/she would be able to tell me why his answer is different. That is what I am looking for too. BTW I think Dr's are super people; helping people live better/longer! How cool is that! I want to help my new addition to the family live long too.
EspressoBoy

God bless you. When your clients are doctors... you will be wanting to yell your head off sometimes...

The worst when some doctors thinks they know it all. There is so much to learn and how can one be expert in every field, even all facets of your work day in day out. I am serious, a breast surgeon can ask me what the heck is metaplastic breast tumour is and I will somehow a laugh about.

Have I told you something yet? ... me ().

BTW, I think after gathering the above information, one may be good to ask what the "run in" engine oil is and use that for the duration is desired. I am a big fan of using any oil, as long as being changed frequently.

[AussieRacer]

Catch is with that sort of recommendation, is that oil does age. If you don't do 20,000km in two years, oil that old and abused (assuming its low kays are due to mainly short trips) is not good for any engine. The only bedding in that effects oil consumption is the piston rings, and it it takes 20,000km to achieve that then he is talking :bs:

Look if you drive within the norms, there is no doubt leaving the oil in that long is of no major issue. But if you plan to stretch the car's legs every now and then, the car will simply rev harder and last longer with cleaner oil. No question about that! If she burns through a little more oil according to that guy, so what. I am going to be changing the oil anyway. And since there is about a zero chance of me owning this car when she hits 100,000kms I don't care, as at least I know I've extracted the best from her.

And regarding the operation comparison, I'd kind of hope that unlike BMW which is just trying to make money like any good corporate citizen is, surgeons/doctors are trying to make people's life's better whilst doing their well paid jobs.

[takahashi]

ewwwww... you are getting personal now. Haha. I am a doctor and I never feel superior.

I am going to research what is the run in oil and force WAY to change it back. I doubt BM put in the prescribed oil for his 1.

[amk2912]

Assuming you use your BMW for normal driving the service interval is 1 year or 25,000km.

The BMW tech is obviously advising for normal everyday use and can't/won't comment where a BMW is used outside of normal use.

[AussieRacer]

takahashi, sorry wasn't trying to be personally. More trying to point out that BMW is a company and can't behave or think like a human. After-all its sole purpose is to make money. Surgeons/doctors are humans and have things like morals.

Eg. I work for a bank in marketing. I think I can be honest and say to do my job well I need to focus on and say what my employer needs me to focus on and say. Whilst I have my official bank hat on I'll grin with a smile about how we are feeling the global credit crunch and need to keep lifting rates. And I can say this whilst knowing that only two years ago when interest rates were low, but the speculation was that they were going to be high, the bank was making money than ever, as the wholesale market was pricing at a higher rate for deposits but we were still paying out bugger all.

I know this opens up a different can of worms :smile: , but don't believe everything you hear from companies/BMW when the science, physics, and common logic says otherwise.

[WAY]

Hang on Taka...you are a doctor? I thought you said you are my Head Crewman??????? Have you been deceiving me?????

AussieRacer, don't be fooled that doctors are there to help us. 4 people I know very well are doctors (pathologist - Taka, cosmetic plastic surgeon, orthopedic surgeons and another surgeon). All I hear them saying everyday is that they need to earn more money to buy nicer cars! Isn't that right Taka hahaha.

I agree completely with Taka and AussieRacer, but at the same time there is obviously truth in the special run in engine oils. Reality is that no car company would honestly tell you that they prefer you to not change oil than change oil more often, provided you use the right oil at the right time! Obviously the Bimmer Tech is saying you need to use a "run in" oil. Go on Taka, find it for me and I will change it back in case you do buy my car in the future!

[sethchan]

Well, the mechanic in my dealership said that if it was his car, he would do it at 5,000 km. And when the dealership did do it, the mechanic reported that the oil was starting to change color, so he thought it turned out to be a good move to do it.

I don't know. I assume that whatever oil they put back in there for a 350 dollar oil change is good for the engine.

[Replay]

As an owner of a 135k mile 6 cylinder petrol and a 100k mile 4 cylinder diesel i can vouch for BMW. If the computer says you don't need to change the oil then you don't... My diesel 1 Series made it to (20k miles) 32,000km before it needed its first service. When driven hard from new the service interval shortened to 14,000 but as i eased off and drove more sedately the service interval extended to nearly 20k miles. If BMW are prepared to give a 3 year unlimited mileage warranty on these cars then you should be able to trust their recommendation to spend less on servicing.

If you want to service your car more often why not buy another brand?:biggrin:

[EspressoBoy]

Actually takahashi, my customers are Dr`s., That's how I can afford to buy a 1.
Even so...
I know they are ppl too.
A lil' Oxymora... doctors that smoke! To me that would be like a master tech changing the oil with used cooking oil.

Anyway, all the fun... back to the facts

I too want to know what is in the first oil. I know in other posts, another 1addict had pix to show metal in his first oil. I am fairly sure most of us do not have that. Anyway, I know we all don`t have faulty PDC either (I did). Also many were saying when BMW did not pay for oil, they were having people change it more often along with other fuids. So...

I think it is fair to say, we all want to know the facts. That is why when BMW say do not change the oil too soon, say why and how they came to that conclusion. Then at the very least those of us diehards who want to baby our cars will put in the right "baby-oil" (first change oil, not the stuff we use on our babies)

Anyway can't wait to find out, cause I am one of the few at this point who plan to keep the car for longer than the warranty. But.... time will tell...

EspressoBoy

[Qube]

Hmmmm I have 3000km on the vert and was going to change it next week. I think I'm still going to do so.

[Rotorhead]

Originally Posted by Swift135

I spoke with a visiting Master Technical adviser form BMW Germany today and he says DO NOT change the run in oil before 20K km. He says it a special run in oil that is formulated for the N54 engine and it should consume between 1 to 1.5 lt of the stuff during the 20K "run in" period. He also said if the oil had to be drained for whatever reason the "run in" oil should be put back in? If you change to the recommended oil as in the manual before the 20K km mark that the engine may always consume more oil that normal due to improper bedding-in. He also said that BMW engine dept. have done years of testing to get the run in oils and procedures correct so why would you jeopardize your engine by doing something else.
I don't want to start a flame war but this is a run down of what the guy said:iono:.

:bs:

[Guran]

Interesting to see how this topic raises temperatures:

http://www.1addicts.com/forums/showt...t=10568&page=2

Pleased to hear the feedback from the BMW techo. I'll be going with 20,000km oil changes (or whatever the service indicator says), after I get my 135i Coupe later this year.