Flat torque tune options

[ntg44]

Hey all,

I’m starting to do research on tunes, and am most interested in a flat torque tune. Specifically, I want stock up to 5500 rpm, and would like to see if more can be extracted beyond that to redline since the stock tune loses some steam afterwards. I’m not looking for huge gains, just a high rpm bump.

Other reasons I’d want to be basically stock up to 5500 are that I rarely go to redline, so stock calibration would suit me 99% of the time, and the other is that the car is just so darn fast as is, I don’t really want more mid range torque since I have enough trouble with grip already.

The open flash tablet tune seems like it’s basically what I’m looking for at this point, but it also seems to be the only option. Does anyone else offer an OTS type tune with a similar torque curve, or is my only other option to get a custom tune? Sorry if this has been brought up before, tried searching and couldn’t find much besides open flash. Just wanted to ask before spending my money.

Thanks in advance

[trackymbf82]

Originally Posted by ntgarage44

Hey all,

I’m starting to do research on tunes, and am most interested in a flat torque tune. Specifically, I want stock up to 5500 rpm, and would like to see if more can be extracted beyond that to redline since the stock tune loses some steam afterwards. I’m not looking for huge gains, just a high rpm bump.

Other reasons I’d want to be basically stock up to 5500 are that I rarely go to redline, so stock calibration would suit me 99% of the time, and the other is that the car is just so darn fast as is, I don’t really want more mid range torque since I have enough trouble with grip already.

The open flash tablet tune seems like it’s basically what I’m looking for at this point, but it also seems to be the only option. Does anyone else offer an OTS type tune with a similar torque curve, or is my only other option to get a custom tune? Sorry if this has been brought up before, tried searching and couldn’t find much besides open flash. Just wanted to ask before spending my money.

Thanks in advance

Save your money and short shift

[ntg44]

Originally Posted by trackymbf82

Save your money and short shift

Certainly an option, if everyone’s answer is as useful as yours. Thanks for the insight.

[PayamFSU]

Lol what a dick (previous response).

There is also jb4 map 5. I have run both, the Open flash one is smoother and faster. But both had more pull to redline than stock.

[ntg44]

Originally Posted by PayamFSU

Lol what a dick (previous response).

There is also jb4 map 5. I have run both, the Open flash one is smoother and faster. But both had more pull to redline than stock.

It’s all good. It’s a decent argument. But to some, stock map with high end tweaks could be just what they’re looking for. I think the stock tune is good, but that doesn’t mean it couldn’t be improved a bit.

People spend thousands on cf and exhaust mods that make no power and car sounds no better, didn’t think this was that wild of an idea.

Anyways, I appreciate an actual answer and feedback.

[mike@x-ph.com]

We had the Open Flash tune on the shop's M4, the flat torque map is an interesting one.

Compared to the full TQ open flash map, the flat torque was sometimes faster (full torque has too many traction problems, but thats what +80 whp in the midrange gets you )

The power delivery with FT is pretty nice

Im trying the Active Autowerke flash now and im very surprised with how the car keeps making power all the way to redline.

Im hoping to have it on the dyno soon to compare it to stock

[trackymbf82]

Originally Posted by ntgarage44

It’s all good. It’s a decent argument. But to some, stock map with high end tweaks could be just what they’re looking for. I think the stock tune is good, but that doesn’t mean it couldn’t be improved a bit.

People spend thousands on cf and exhaust mods that make no power and car sounds no better, didn’t think this was that wild of an idea.

Anyways, I appreciate an actual answer and feedback.

If the car is good 99% of the time as you said, I would at least consider keeping it that way. You'll spend a lot of money and time to get that to 99.5%.

[ntg44]

Originally Posted by trackymbf82

If the car is good 99% of the time as you said, I would at least consider keeping it that way. You'll spend a lot of money and time to get that to 99.5%.

Yeah, you definitely have a point. Never disputed that

At the very least, hopefully more flat torque tunes become known and compiled in this thread. I had a hard time finding much through searching, so this could be a great future reference depending on how many responses it gets.

[domino_z]

The flat torque openflash map is by far the best tune I've tried on my zcp

Not only for the way it doesn't overpower the chassis/traction, but also in how much closer to stock it is in terms of driveability

If you wanted to try something other than openflash flat torque, I think any tuner offering a cs style map would essentially be the same thing

[PayamFSU]

I think CS tune is more of a hybrid between flat torque and a stage 1 tune looking at previous dynos posted here

[domino_z]

Originally Posted by PayamFSU

I think CS tune is more of a hybrid between flat torque and a stage 1 tune looking at previous dynos posted here

The other way around

The cs map is a lower torque and peak hp map than the openflash flat torque - in fact peak hp is same bw both their flat and full map

I've driven a cs and it's nowhere near as quick

Compared to a stage 1 with that big torque hit though, they have a similar feel with a linear torque delivery that doesn't overwhelm the rear end

[maximumpsi]

definitely doable

[David@ActiveAutowerke]

We can make that map for you, and have done so in the past for customers that primarily use their cars as track cars.

[ntg44]

Originally Posted by David@ActiveAutowerke

We can make that map for you, and have done so in the past for customers that primarily use their cars as track cars.

Thank you, further evidence supporting that this isn't such a crazy idea. PM incoming

[PayamFSU]

Originally Posted by domino_z

The other way around

The cs map is a lower torque and peak hp map than the openflash flat torque - in fact peak hp is same bw both their flat and full map

I've driven a cs and it's nowhere near as quick

Compared to a stage 1 with that big torque hit though, they have a similar feel with a linear torque delivery that doesn't overwhelm the rear end

I meant the distribution of power not necessarily absolute values.

[Mike@N54Tuning.com]

You can use the JB4's map6 boost customization to easily set a ramping boost curve to try it out. Works with the stock flash or any aftermarket flash, including the free JB4 BEF flash maps.

Mike

[jmciver]

So I thought I read in a thread here on the forums that one of the main reasons the stock torque curves drop off so abruptly above the mid-range (and this is for all stock tunes: Base, ZCP, CS & GTS) has to do with the design capability and reliability of the stock turbos. In other words, the stock turbos were not designed to constantly spin at the higher rpms needed to maintain the flat torque curve at high engine rpms you are looking for. If you wanted that type of turbo performance, aftermarket turbos were your only reliable and long term option.

I don't have any technical data to support that though. And quite frankly, I hope it is not true as I would also be interested in a flat torque curve as well - two actually. One that makes the CS curve flat up top and leaves the low end alone (I am running the stock CS tune now as my "winter tune") and then a BM3 Stage 1 tune that does the same thing, flattens the torque curve up top, but leaves the low end where it is - and I don't want to buy new turbos...

I can use foot control to manage the torque at the low end to minimize wheel spin, but it would be nice to have more torque up high...

[ntg44]

Originally Posted by jmciver

So I thought I read in a thread here on the forums that one of the main reasons the stock torque curves drop off so abruptly above the mid-range (and this is for all stock tunes: Base, ZCP, CS & GTS) has to do with the design capability and reliability of the stock turbos. In other words, the stock turbos were not designed to constantly spin at the higher rpms needed to maintain the flat torque curve at high engine rpms you are looking for. If you wanted that type of turbo performance, aftermarket turbos were your only reliable and long term option.

I don't have any technical data to support that though. And quite frankly, I hope it is not true as I would also be interested in a flat torque curve as well - two actually. One that makes the CS curve flat up top and leaves the low end alone (I am running the stock CS tune now as my "winter tune") and then a BM3 Stage 1 tune that does the same thing, flattens the torque curve up top, but leaves the low end where it is - and I don't want to buy new turbos...

I can use foot control to manage the torque at the low end to minimize wheel spin, but it would be nice to have more torque up high...

Send a PM to David at AA in this thread, he sent me a badass dyno graph. Currently in discussion for this exact thing, but with base tune. It will actually liven up 6500-7500 rpm and give the tune a high revving N/A feel.

That’s the bonus of not bumping the low end. The peaks aren’t going to be as high, but I think I’m going to love how this turns out. This is more of an “OEM+” tune more than anything. Much more about driving experience than all out acceleration.

[jmciver]

Originally Posted by ntgarage44

Send a PM to David at AA in this thread, he sent me a badass dyno graph. Currently in discussion for this exact thing, but with base tune. It will actually liven up 6500-7500 rpm and give the tune a high revving N/A feel.

That’s the bonus of not bumping the low end. The peaks aren’t going to be as high, but I think I’m going to love how this turns out. This is more of an “OEM+” tune more than anything. Much more about driving experience than all out acceleration.

Ha, ha... I don't need that temptation right now . I know what you mean about the "high revving N/A feel" though. My tuned supercharged E46 M3 track car, which has a flat torque curve that is very similar in shape to a N/A curve due to the characteristics of a centrifugal type blower, feels like it has more power than my F80 at higher rpms....

[qskid28]

Originally Posted by ntgarage44

Hey all,

I'm starting to do research on tunes, and am most interested in a flat torque tune. Specifically, I want stock up to 5500 rpm, and would like to see if more can be extracted beyond that to redline since the stock tune loses some steam afterwards. I'm not looking for huge gains, just a high rpm bump.

Other reasons I'd want to be basically stock up to 5500 are that I rarely go to redline, so stock calibration would suit me 99% of the time, and the other is that the car is just so darn fast as is, I don't really want more mid range torque since I have enough trouble with grip already.

The open flash tablet tune seems like it's basically what I'm looking for at this point, but it also seems to be the only option. Does anyone else offer an OTS type tune with a similar torque curve, or is my only other option to get a custom tune? Sorry if this has been brought up before, tried searching and couldn't find much besides open flash. Just wanted to ask before spending my money.

Thanks in advance

I'm running OFT's v2.0 tune. I was a local tester and just wrapped up some testing at Thunderhill Raceway this past week with Shiv. Was a ton of fun being around because he also had his M2C and another local tester's M5 out there.

I actually am one of those individuals that never intended to mod his car in anyway whatsoever. Love the way this car came out of the box. When I was offered to be a tester I had requested getting the car flashed back to stock after development. I never looked back. Hah. Definitely, have fallen in love with my ZCP more afterwards. The star of the show is the linear power curve - the power bump takes a backseat to this awesome characteristic of the tune. On the track I didn't have to make much adjustments other than get accustomed to significantly faster turn-exits and pulling some fun speeds on the straights.

The M3 is my daily driver and "weekend warrior. " Drive-ability with the tune hasn't really been impacted much. Only big impact is that you won't find yourself needing to go much beyond 50% throttle in most situations. The tune only demands an additional 2-3 PSI but on pump gas I'm pulling 495whp and 511wtq. I believe tablet can store 6 tune files at a time - pretty fun switching in between the files you can have custom made to suit whatever driving mood your in.

[OpenFlash]

Originally Posted by ntgarage44

Hey all,

I’m starting to do research on tunes, and am most interested in a flat torque tune. Specifically, I want stock up to 5500 rpm, and would like to see if more can be extracted beyond that to redline since the stock tune loses some steam afterwards. I’m not looking for huge gains, just a high rpm bump.

Other reasons I’d want to be basically stock up to 5500 are that I rarely go to redline, so stock calibration would suit me 99% of the time, and the other is that the car is just so darn fast as is, I don’t really want more mid range torque since I have enough trouble with grip already.

The open flash tablet tune seems like it’s basically what I’m looking for at this point, but it also seems to be the only option. Does anyone else offer an OTS type tune with a similar torque curve, or is my only other option to get a custom tune? Sorry if this has been brought up before, tried searching and couldn’t find much besides open flash. Just wanted to ask before spending my money.

Thanks in advance

All our M car tunes are developed and tested at the track. Keeping torque reasonably flat (avoiding that silly torque mountain in the midrange) is only one part of the reason our tunes drive the way they do. In additional to shaping a torque curve that is suitable for actual high-performance driving (as opposed to a dyno queen), we also spend a lot of time making sure that engine is responsive to changes in throttle (in both direction). Historically, turbo engines aren't the most linear torque generating devices with respect to throttle. Especially when confronted with abrupt throttle closure or negative changes to throttle position. That is when one often runs into surge, the notorious S55 fart and other unfortunate anomalies. We spend considerably more effort in working these out than we do just making a nicely shaped torque curve on the dyno. And that involves actual driving on road courses. It's a tough job but someone's got to do it

But in the end, I think it is what differentiates our tune offerings from those of others.

Pics from our M2C, M3C and M5 testing this past weekend at Thunderhill:






And of course, our reference vehicle for driving dynamics:

[PayamFSU]

Yup used v2.2 of flat tq map at the track last weekend was great shaved 1.5 sec off my time on a 1.5 mile track