Need advice - seller lied to me

[O2ShootTheJ]

Okay fellas. So about a month ago I bought my 08 E92 w/ 83k miles and VF 650. A couple members on here told me to run away and that the seller seemed dishonest, but I pushed forward. So here is me saying, go ahead, say "I told you so". You were right.

Seller told me the rods had been addressed and heads were ported and motor completely rebuilt before the supercharger was installed at 71k miles. He also told me that the car had the Remus full Ti exhaust, coilovers on all 4 corners and that the car was shipped to VF engineering and built there. So after weeks of trying to get build sheets/receipts/mod list of any kind from him so I know exactly what is on the car, I found the guy who owned the car before him and had the SC installed. Basically what I've learned from him via our conversation is that he purchased the SC from VF and had it installed at a local shop. Didn't touch the motor at all (So no upgraded rod bearings in my boosted car ) and the exhaust and springs were already on the car when he bought it (so i'm sure its the standard remus and some lowering springs)

My question is what the heck do I even do in this situation. I do have an e-mail from him where he tells me that "the rods have been addressed. The motor was rebuilt professionally and heads ported prior to the supercharger addition."

Do I have any legal options here? Do I just try to sell the car and cut my losses now or do I just bend over and try to get some upgraded rod bearings in there? I've really never been done like this before so obviously angry/depressed/clueless on how to proceed.

On top of that the TA went on me less than 24 hours into ownership so I had that on top of it all.

[dparm]

I am not a lawyer, so my advice is that you contact a lawyer. Get all of your paperwork together before you meet with them.

[yidgyi]

I would probably sell the car or replace bearings/TA. Not a lawyer so can't chime in on what you can do with legal options. To be quite honest, I personally would lean more on selling the car and buy the new M2. Lately, I've been wondering what my local dealer would offer me for my e92 M3. Not sure why but the new M2 seems so appealing to me. Maybe because my factory warranty runs out in a couple months and I keep stressing out about RB.

[AdonM3]

I am definitely not a lawyer but I think used car sales from private party are as is. It would be your responsibility to get a Pre-purchase inspection before you purchase the car. You could have taken it to a reputable mechanic to have him check the suspension and see that it was just springs and not coilovers. That would be your first sign to run from the deal. Another way to tell is by seeing receipts. A person who would do engine work and have a supercharger installed would most likely keep receipts for all the work. But consulting a with a lawyer would be your best bet. Good luck.

[O2ShootTheJ]

Yea this whole situation just kind of sucks. Should I confront the seller about it? I haven't said anything to him yet about the fact that the work wasn't done.

I bought a new TA yesterday so I already have that on the way. I think I'm going to get a blackstone labs oil analysis kit sent me way and send in a sample and see what it says. Assuming that's probably a decent idea to get an idea of what kind of wear there is

[pshep138]

Originally Posted by serg87

I am definitely not a lawyer but I think used car sales from private party are as is. It would be your responsibility to get a Pre-purchase inspection before you purchase the car. You could have taken it to a reputable mechanic to have him check the suspension and see that it was just springs and not coilovers. That would be your first sign to run from the deal. Another way to tell is by seeing receipts. A person who would do engine work and have a supercharger installed would most likely keep receipts for all the work. But consulting a with a lawyer would be your best bet. Good luck.

The bolded section is what I was going to say. I had this happen (although, not quite to this extent) on my E46 M3. Consulted with a couple of lawyer friends, and they said I was out of luck. I just nutted up, and fixed what I could on the car.

[rmcard]

but I can't speak to the laws in your state or the exceptions that may apply to the sale of used cars among private parties.

While it may be true that sales are "as-is" as it relates to warranty claims, I doubt very much that pure fraud is ever going to be tolerated (again, not a car sales legal expert). If you can show that he induced you to buy the car by making false representations about it... well, maybe there is something there.

Second question then is... even if you can prove that, does he have any money or could you void the sale?

[O2ShootTheJ]

Thanks pshep, I kind of figured that would be the case, or lawyer fees would cost me more than I'd ever get out of him and just end up being a lot of frustration/waste of time.

Definitely learned my lesson on this one. Don't get excited and rush into the deal. Definitely sucks

[briancl]

I would talk it out with the original seller. No need to accuse him and point the finger, but ask if he is willing to cover the rod bearing replacement or at least split the cost.

[New2Roundel]

Originally Posted by serg87

It would be your responsibility to get a Pre-purchase inspection before you purchase the car.

A PPI isn't going to open up your engine up to look at the status of the internals. A PPI is there to look for signs of fairly obvious problems (at least for those with a lift and familiarity with the model) of poor care and accident repairs.

[oolas3]

Originally Posted by O2ShootTheJ

Thanks pshep, I kind of figured that would be the case, or lawyer fees would cost me more than I'd ever get out of him and just end up being a lot of frustration/waste of time.

Definitely learned my lesson on this one. Don't get excited and rush into the deal. Definitely sucks

I think you have a decent shot with the email. A written contract can be as informal as the writing on the back of a napkin. Now the rest of the stuff outside the email, you probably don't have a good chance on. I would replace the rod bearings and file a small claims lawsuit. Hiring a lawyer probably doesn't make economic sense but you can represent yourself in small claims.

[rmcard]

Originally Posted by New2Roundel

A PPI isn't going to open up your engine up to look at the status of the internals. A PPI is there to look for signs of fairly obvious problems (at least for those with a lift and familiarity with the model) of poor care and accident repairs.

Correct. What he didn't do was his due diligence... (i.e., got records of what was done or if unavailable, you weigh the risk). Understandable.

That said, he was smart enough to know what to ask and the seller has a legal obligation to respond truthfully... that he may have lied... well, that could be fraud if he lied knowingly in order to get you to buy the car.

Maybe try small claims.

[jphughan]

Ok, so first question: If you learned the owner before the seller had had the work done, it seems like the seller could argue that he was just passing on to you what HE'D been told by that previous owner. He may not have bothered to verify that seller's claims the way you just did, so true or not, he could possibly claim that he didn't knowingly defraud you. But I'm not a lawyer either, so I don't know if that could happen, and even if it could, I don't know how it would change things.

But in the bigger picture, I understand that it sucks to have agreed on a sale price that you thought included a bunch of mods that turn out not to be there, but if the only thing you really care about is the rod bearings, then it doesn't make sense at all to me to sell the car over that. It'll cost you a fair amount in labor, but you're still going to hang onto a great car. The E9x M3 is a gem even stock, after all, plus it's not like you're going to quickly find someone else selling the exact car you thought you were buying with this one. And if you go this route, WPC treated bearings seem to be the favored option. Vendors like EAS sell them.

I agree with others that the first logical step is to confront the seller with your findings and see what happens. Splitting the cost or better yet refunding the cost to get the parts (and installation) for what the seller told you was already there seems completely reasonable to me. If the seller won't cooperate even in the face of legal action, I suppose you don't have much to lose talking to a lawyer if you can get a free consult to see whether the circumstances and value of the missing components make it worthwhile to engage said lawyer, but my guess is that it won't be, in which case I would take this as a life lesson, move on, and let time and the thrills of your new SC'd M3 heal your wounds, which honestly shouldn't take too long. Good luck OP!

[O2ShootTheJ]

Originally Posted by briancl

I would talk it out with the original seller. No need to accuse him and point the finger, but ask if he is willing to cover the rod bearing replacement or at least split the cost.

I seriously doubt he will offer to do anything for me, but I will ask.

Originally Posted by m3m3mr

I think you have a decent shot with the email. A written contract can be as informal as the writing on the back of a napkin. Now the rest of the stuff outside the email, you probably don't have a good chance on. I would replace the rod bearings and file a small claims lawsuit. Hiring a lawyer probably doesn't make economic sense but you can represent yourself in small claims.

Yea, the other stuff I'm not so concerned about. My main concern is the rod bearings. I wouldn't have purchased a 83k mile S65 pushing 8psi had I know it was on the stock bearings. I was under the inpression the whole engine had been rebuilt 12k miles ago and was fresh. He says in his email that the engine was professionaly rebuilt before the SC went on. Then I have a text from him stating the SC was installed at 71k miles

Originally Posted by rmcard

Correct. What he didn't do was his due diligence... (i.e., got records of what was done or if unavailable, you weigh the risk). Understandable.

That said, he was smart enough to know what to ask and the seller has a legal obligation to respond truthfully... that he may have lied... well, that could be fraud if he lied knowingly in order to get you to buy the car.

Maybe try small claims.

Yea. I tried my best to have him get me all the receipts before I paid for the car but he finagled and said his friend was on his honeymoon (which is true, the same guy I spoke with and found out what the car actually had done to it.) and he said he would get it to me when his buddy got back. 4 weeks later never got anything from him. At that point he seemed like a decent guy so I went ahead with the transaction. Definitely a mistake on my part.

[X5-User]

Ohh man...I remember your other thread when a lot of members advised you against buying that car. It was clear that the seller is not honest but still you went to pursue the car.

If you already bought the car then hard luck. Private party sales are AS IS and you can't do anything about it. Your only option is go try to get back to him to try take it back or ask for partial refund but again he is not obligated to give anything after the sale.

[O2ShootTheJ]

Originally Posted by Bimmer-M3

Ohh man...I remember your other thread when a lot of members advised you against buying that car. It was clear that the seller is not honest but still you went to pursue the car.

If you already bought the car then hard luck. Private party sales are AS IS and you can't do anything about it. Your only option is go try to get back to him to try take it back or ask for partial refund but again he is not obligated to give anything after the sale.

yep :/ my stubborn self had to learn the hard way

[6ixSpd]

There is nothing you can do. You dropped the ball on so many levels in this transaction, and now you're left to deal with the consequences.

[O2ShootTheJ]

Originally Posted by the6M3

There is nothing you can do. You dropped the ball on so many levels in this transaction, and now you're left to deal with the consequences.

I'm embarrassed and ashamed to say you're right, but you're 100% right. I really blew it numerous times on this one.

Definitely won't forget this one and will learn from it for the future. Feel pretty crappy about the whole deal, and embarrassed how everyone told me to run from the guy and went for it anyways. But I still love the car so I probably just eat the $2500 for upgraded RB when the funds are available and keep rolling.

I contacted him to see if he will cover the cost of having the RB replaced with upgraded ones since that is what I was told I was getting, but not going to hold my breath.

[Longboarder]

Rescission is the legal remedy for a contract where you were "duped" of where there was an egregious misrepresentation.

[monterey]

How much was the car? Ask for some money back.

[schoy]

Just because the car is sold "as-is" (which I am assuming is the case here) only means that the OP may not have a breach of contract claim against the seller. However, if the OP relies on representations made by the seller, the OP may still have a claim in tort for intentional misrepresentation (or fraud) or negligent misrepresentation.

Small claims court seems like the appropriate venue for this dispute. Get an affidavit from the prior owner as to the fact that he didn't replace the rod bearings or otheriwse touch the motor so you can introduce into evidence.

[KishMish]

At this point you can try talking into him to split the cost, but the fact that he knowingly lied to you i doubt he would split costs.