What I don't like about the F15 (coming from E70 LCI)

[mynameisplayer]

I almost feel I've made a compromise choice of black interior ordering my F15, as I have Oyster with Black Metalic at the moment on the E70. I chose not to do the same again as 1. same color, not exactly new car feeling. and 2. the F15 has a white lower dash, white seatbelts, and white seat backs - none of which are in the E70. While I am having a whinge, I don't exactly love the radio/hvac surround and dashboard strip in gloss black. It looks "cheap" to me. Is there a stick on kit to fix that?

[P1]

Have you driven the F15 after owning an E70? My wife disagrees, but the E70 LCI drives a lot better than the F15.

[UnhappySwede]

The F15 is like three different cars depending on what suspension upgrades you have. In my opinion, the DDC makes the car and steering way too soft an unexact, removing most of the driving experience.

Without DDC, I had huge problems with vibrations and shaking until some 16 000 miles when it softened up. Its still rather unpleasant on bad surfaces and high speeds.

[1230vani]

Originally Posted by mynameisplayer

I almost feel I've made a compromise choice of black interior ordering my F15, as I have Oyster with Black Metalic at the moment on the E70. I chose not to do the same again as 1. same color, not exactly new car feeling. and 2. the F15 has a white lower dash, white seatbelts, and white seat backs - none of which are in the E70. While I am having a whinge, I don't exactly love the radio/hvac surround and dashboard strip in gloss black. It looks "cheap" to me. Is there a stick on kit to fix that?

Although, your post does have a bit of a negative vibe I actually fully agree with you. Ordered Oyster now (with black carpets) and actually I do not like that the lower dash is white (along with the seat belts. Am actually thinking about changing the lower dash upon delivery but am afraid of the rattles that may come after the change? White seat backs are also a problem of course, especially with the kids. The high gloss strip does look cheap-ish, because it is just shiny plastic. There is a way to fix it though, one can order alcantara carbon trim and the shiny plastic goes away and alcantara is there instead.

To add to your list, I preferred the old design comfort seats, they did take more space, but they were just perfect.

[Alan l.]

Originally Posted by P1et

Have you driven the F15 after owning an E70? My wife disagrees, but the E70 LCI drives a lot better than the F15.

Actually i disagree. I had a LCI E70 loaner for a week and I did not like the way it drove compared to my F10 535 that was in for service at the time.

Power - the 35i in the E70 felt lethargic. I believe most of this is due to the different tuning for the ECU and mostly due to the different transmission. My MPPK F15 35i feels like a rocket compared to the E70 35i. I've read others making the switch from the E70 to the F15 say the same thing about this too.

Steering - Unnecessarily stiff. There really is no reason why it needs to be this way imo. I am use to tight steering from my E46 and E90 days but after going to the F chassis cars it just makes more sense to have it this way now. I can't imagine most women being able to parallel park with one hand while looking in the back at the glass in the E70.....at least not my wife lol

Suspension - nothing to rave about. Granted I had a base model LCI E70 and comparing it to my Adaptive M suspension F15 isn't exactly fair. I just don't see how the E70 is so much better.

Alan

[P1]

Originally Posted by Alan l.

Actually i disagree. I had a LCI E70 loaner for a week and I did not like the way it drove compared to my F10 535 that was in for service at the time.

Power - the 35i in the E70 felt lethargic. I believe most of this is due to the different tuning for the ECU and mostly due to the different transmission. My MPPK F15 35i feels like a rocket compared to the E70 35i. I've read others making the switch from the E70 to the F15 say the same thing about this too.

Steering - Unnecessarily stiff. There really is no reason why it needs to be this way imo. I am use to tight steering from my E46 and E90 days but after going to the F chassis cars it just makes more sense to have it this way now. I can't imagine most women being able to parallel park with one hand while looking in the back at the glass in the E70.....at least not my wife lol

Suspension - nothing to rave about. Granted I had a base model LCI E70 and comparing it to my Adaptive M suspension F15 isn't exactly fair. I just don't see how the E70 is so much better.

Alan

I describe myself as a "cruiser". I don't floor my cars, I don't use the paddle shifter. I don't go carving up the local mountains. But sure, the F15 is faster than the E70. But I'm specifically speaking on how it drives though.

Brakes - maybe I need to to get used to it, but I felt that the brakes on my E70 were better than the F15.

Steering - this is by and far my BIGGEST gripe on the F15. I dislike it. The E70 was stiff, and I prefer that. My wife never complained about it, but then again, she never has to parallel park it either. The steering wheel was thicker also. The F15 steering wheels feel very thin. I feel like a bee could land on it, and I would make a 180 turn. Entirely too loose. Makes the driving experience much less enjoyable.

The F15 just feels very "light". I think that's the best way to describe it. The E70 felt fat and heavy. Even just driving in a straight line, it felt like it was wide and stable.

I'll probably get used it to it over time, but after a few days in the F15, I miss how the E70 drives.

[Alan l.]

Originally Posted by P1et

The F15 just feels very "light". I think that's the best way to describe it. The E70 felt fat and heavy. Even just driving in a straight line, it felt like it was wide and stable.

I'll probably get used it to it over time, but after a few days in the F15, I miss how the E70 drives.

That is the best way to describe the two cars.

How the F15 is spec'ed has a lot to do with how it feels. I would imagine a Adaptive M suspension car with 20" tires will feel vastly different from a 18" standard suspension F15.

Alan

[cmyx6go]

I feel the same about the E71 vs F16. I had a '10 E71 50i and a '13 E71 M. The E71s were solid and tight. I ordered a '16 F16 loaded. It just didn't feel the same. The ride, suspension are softer even cushy or floaty. The steering was very light and loose. I lasted 4 months and went to the F86. Although it's closer to what I expected, I still miss my E71.

And I couldn't agree more on the seat redesign.

[Kzang]

Originally Posted by cmyx6go

I feel the same about the E71 vs F16. I had a '10 E71 50i and a '13 E71 M. The E71s were solid and tight. I ordered a '16 F16 loaded. It just didn't feel the same. The ride, suspension are softer even cushy or floaty. The steering was very light and loose. I lasted 4 months and went to the F86. Although it's closer to what I expected, I still miss my E71.

And I couldn't agree more on the seat redesign.

F16 loaded with the suspension upgrades as well?
Or standard?

[P1]

Originally Posted by Kzang

F16 loaded with the suspension upgrades as well?
Or standard?

I'm speaking specifically about F15s with either standard or Adaptive M Suspension. That is what my comments above are based on.

[cmyx6go]

Originally Posted by Kzang

F16 loaded with the suspension upgrades as well?
Or standard?

Adaptive M suspension and Dynamic Handling Package on 50i M sport.

[vangoose]

Originally Posted by Alan l.

That is the best way to describe the two cars.

How the F15 is spec'ed has a lot to do with how it feels. I would imagine a Adaptive M suspension car with 20" tires will feel vastly different from a 18" standard suspension F15.

Alan

I have 20" in my F16 with DHP, still doesn't feel as good as my old E70 with sport. It's acceptable though.

I tested drive Jaguar F Pace yesterday, although it's also electrical steering, it feels miles ahead of F15/16, and it's a but smaller, a few hundred ponds lighter with mire power, overall, the jag handles so much better. The interior is not as nice.

[Kzang]

Originally Posted by cmyx6go

Adaptive M suspension and Dynamic Handling Package on 50i M sport.

I'm surprised to hear that you thought the X6M was closer to what you expected with the E71 since my understanding although, I could be wrong the X6 with the combination of 2VF and ZDH is equivalent to an X6M suspension.

[Kzang]

My experience with the F15 & 2VF coming from an E70 with standard suspension has been nothing but great...

Unfortunately, I was not in a position to add in the AD ( Adaptive Drive ) with the E70 build so I drove that X5 with standard suspension for 3 years... IMO the E70 although more planted than the F15 was heavier and felt bulkier... The F15 is more nimble and athletic than the the E70.

E70 steering in highway speed was good and solid, however the steering during parking lot speeds was unnecessarily heavy... I was afraid of the F15 steering being too light but after a few months of driving I got used to it and so far IMO the steering is very precise and accurate both slow parking lot speeds and faster highway speeds.

[cmyx6go]

Originally Posted by Kzang

I'm surprised to hear that you thought the X6M was closer to what you expected with the E71 since my understanding although, I could be wrong the X6 with the combination of 2VF and ZDH is equivalent to an X6M suspension.

Based on my experience with the E71, I thought the same. I went from the '13 M to the '16 50i because my '10 50i and my '13 M were the same except for the difference in power. Due to the way things were packaged with the M, I preferred the options on the 50i so I loaded it up the way I wanted it. I was very disappointed. After 4 months I traded the 50i for the M. I still think the previous generation handling and ride was better than the current, even in the M. I personally think the only improvement is the 8 speed transmission.

[UnhappySwede]

The F15 can be firm and nice, my steering is heavy and firm. Tried adaptive M suspension and the whole car was floaty. Felt reborn when I got my stock suspension back again.

Thats the problem, not the F15 itself. Go and try one with steel springs at the dealer

[Alan l.]

That doesn't make much sense. You are the first person that thinks the standard F15 feels firmer/better than the adaptive M suspension. If that's the case most wouldn't complain about the F15's handling because I'm willing to bet that 8 out 10 of the F15's sold don't have Adaptive M suspension.

[UnhappySwede]

not really, we had another thread about this with people agreeing that their stock suspension steering is firm and exact. mine feels really heavy, the car is in neither way soft.

when I drove the M suspension however, it felt like driving on ice at any time. Zero feedback from the road. Cushy and floaty is excatly what it was.

[Kzang]

Originally Posted by UnhappySwede

The F15 can be firm and nice, my steering is heavy and firm. Tried adaptive M suspension and the whole car was floaty. Felt reborn when I got my stock suspension back again.

Thats the problem, not the F15 itself. Go and try one with steel springs at the dealer

You either did not try the 2VF equipped car or the option to adjust the chassis was not selected.

Here is your comment about the suspension on the BMW F15 X5 Suspension Options Chart and Comparison to Competitors thread http://f15.bimmerpost.com/forums/sho...=913797&page=4 Post# 84.

Originally Posted by UnhappySwede

Stay away from the stock suspension! Or stay away from this car completely.

I test drove the X5, and I dont know what kind of chassi I tried but it was ok on the highways along the dealer. At least it felt decent after trying the XC90 which was a compelete disaster and a struggle to keep on a straight line on all roads.

Anyway, so I proceeded and ordered a X5. The car of my dreams, the colors, trims etc turned out perfect - but that was about it.

This vehicle turned out to be a complete disaster. It vobbles, vibrates, bangs and jumps on pretty much any surface. The road must pretty much be perfect for the car to actually just roll down it, and sometimes you enter a strip that calms it down, but thats always temporary until I start feeling beaten again.

I started researching what was wrong with this car and yeup, there are plenty of complains on the standard suspension. You guys have been way too mild on the critics however, describing it as "less than impressive" and "harsh on bad roads". It's worse than that, it's a complete disaster that shouldn't be on a car in this segment.

I do however love everything else about it so for a while I figured ordering a new one with DHP or so. But since I rarely sell my cars but rather give them away to some family member, I don't want to end up repairing it for huge amouts in a few years.

So then people tell me that a car this size has to be über-harsh or actually have adaptive springs combined with air suspension in order to drive normally. Oh really? I just drove a twice as big Mercedes Sprinter for a full 1800 miles and came up nothing but sleepy on the other side, while a shorter sunday countryside trip in my X5 makes me feel banged up and sick. The Sprinter has a traditional suspension set up for heavy loads, and yet handle smoother, softer and more stable than today's luxury SUVs.

I try to stay mature and sensible about this but I would so feel so much better if I lit this whole car on fire. After just a few months with the car, I can't take it any more and I'm trying to sell it. It's a thing of beauty but it's undriveable.

And oh, I run on 18 inch non-runflats. Overinflating them actually does reduce some vobbling but instead increases the banging where any other car just floats throught.

I'm not sure what message you are trying to send...

[UnhappySwede]

If you are so unsure of my message, you could aswell read what I wrote in this same thread

"Without DDC, I had huge problems with vibrations and shaking until some 16 000 miles when it softened up. Its still rather unpleasant on bad surfaces and high speeds."

And this is a completely different thing than soft steering and floaty ride. On this forum, you've got people both complaining about getting nauseus due to all the shaking, and people who Think the car is too soft. I Think we could draw the conclusion that neither chassi configuration is quite spot on, but in my opinion, the steel springs are better than the DDC without DHP.

And yes I drove the adjustable M-sport chassies. Even in sport mode, the steering wasn't as firm as in Comfort mode on my regular car. On the other hand, when I put my car in sport mode, the stering is EXTREMELY Heavy and firm. So you've got both the chassie and the servotronic affecting the steering feel of this car.

[Alan l.]

You must have a Unicorn F15 X5 because most experience the opposite of what you are feeling.

[///Marko]

Originally Posted by cmyx6go

Based on my experience with the E71, I thought the same. I went from the '13 M to the '16 50i because my '10 50i and my '13 M were the same except for the difference in power. Due to the way things were packaged with the M, I preferred the options on the 50i so I loaded it up the way I wanted it. I was very disappointed. After 4 months I traded the 50i for the M. I still think the previous generation handling and ride was better than the current, even in the M. I personally think the only improvement is the 8 speed transmission.

That 8 speed transmission became available from E70 lci in Europe. Hard to believe the old E70 lci is better to drive than a new F15 but it´s possible when the options are chosen right.

My friend have a X5 40d lci with active steering, adaptive suspension and 20" wheels. It´s great car to drive. When I was driving dealer demo M50d F15 M-sport two years ago, I disliked it. I thought it was all about the huge size of the car.