Steering Feel Questions

[Keca10]

During my test drive of the M4 convertible (I plan to get the sedan), I noticed very little steering feel. All of the rest of the car was amazing, including other steering characteristics like turn-in and precision (better than anything I drove so far).

It's like the steering wheel is a perfect listener to my input, but doesn't talk much (my wife would like it from both a car and from me).

I played with the settings... Comfort steering setting gave best feedback and felt the best. That was surprising.

Here are my questions for those that have been living with the car for a while:
1) Have you noticed the lack of steering feel? Did it bother you at first?
2) Over time, did you get used to less feel than other sports cars (911, E90 M3, E46 M3)?
3) Are there any mods to help improve steering feel (hardware or software)?

I am assuming the ZCP+sedan will be slightly better than a convertible. In my experience even tires can make a difference (PSS have been the best). I am picky about this one since for my driving experience steering feedback has a lot of weight for the fun factor. The car more than makes up for it in every other area. Plus, I need a sedan and manual as must haves, so M3 is really the best option even with lack of feedback from the wheel. I might be just worried about nothing.

[solstice]

1) Yes and Yes.
2) No I really miss the steering feel of good HPS.
3) None I know of.

That said the steering is otherwise good as you noticed and it's not really a negative attribute of the car but also not a positive if you know what I mean. And for me steering feel should be a positive in this type of car. In this car it's just there doing it's job, it's not an "attraction" in itself.

[DaBean]

1) A little bit, but not really
2) Yes
3) None that I know of

I actually have grown to like the steering - I actually put it on "comfort" for everyday driving around town - it's easier, the wheel still feels good, and I don't need crazy steering feel when driving downtown San Francisco.

I do like my E46 steering feel when I get back to it, but the more I switch off, the less night/day different I "think" I feel. When I first got the car, I think it was a "shock" that the steering was different, but now that I know what to expect - and like what I have - it's not an issue

[ghost34]

Welcome to the age of saving 1% on a government mpg test, on a car we drive like hooligans and avg no where near the epa test numbers

[The Automotive Enthusiast]

1.) Coming from a hydraulically assisted system, you do feel a difference.
2.) I got use to it, but that doesn't mean I like it.
3.) Not yet. Hopefully, Mike Benvo can work his magic and fix that.

My gripe is that in Sport+ it feels artificially heavy. It doesn't have a lot of communication, but it's decent.

[AM4ZING]

i appreciate the electronic power steering...

It performs amazing so no complaints here.

[Keca10]

I appreciate some parts of it too, but we should always strive to make improvements and M3 could improve in the feel (while staying amazing in precision).

Ideally, a software update can fix it, so that it mutes the road less.

BMW's reasoning for EPS in the M3 was that:
1) it feels as good as E90 M3 hydraulic (it doesn't yet, but it doesn't mean it can't later)
2) saves 0.3l per 100 liters of gas used (0.3% mpg improvement.... give me a break).
3) it's more compatible with future driver assist technologies (i guess you don't need steering in self driving cars)

This strategy, at a high level, seems a little misaligned with old M ways and driver involvement. I think they made a mistake here, but I understand they need to push and innovate to stay relevant in the future. There are a lot of benefits to EPS that I mentioned like precision and beautiful turn in and I bet there are ways to minimize on the negatives.

[RSXDC5]

When I installed GC camber plates, steering numbness went away by an extremely large margin...

[Keca10]

This is where I am going... I wouldn't blame EPS for this 100%.

I bet with slight alignment changes, tires, bushings this can be improved.

[UrbanExtant]

Originally Posted by Keca10

I appreciate some parts of it too, but we should always strive to make improvements and M3 could improve in the feel (while staying amazing in precision).

Ideally, a software update can fix it, so that it mutes the road less.

BMW's reasoning for EPS in the M3 was that:
1) it feels as good as E90 M3 hydraulic (it doesn't yet, but it doesn't mean it can't later)
2) saves 0.3l per 100 liters of gas used (0.3% mpg improvement.... give me a break).
3) it's more compatible with future driver assist technologies (i guess you don't need steering in self driving cars)

This strategy, at a high level, seems a little misaligned with old M ways and driver involvement. I think they made a mistake here, but I understand they need to push and innovate to stay relevant in the future. There are a lot of benefits to EPS that I mentioned like precision and beautiful turn in and I bet there are ways to minimize on the negatives.

Numbers 2 & 3 are valid reasons BMW, and many other manufacturers are going the route of EPS. One of the top reasons being, world governments are putting increasingly burdensome pressure on automakers to increase fuel efficiency. That .3% increase by using EPS adds up when combined with various other savings throughout the vehicle. In addition to whatever increases in fuel efficiency BMW can provide in all their vehicles, they are also pushing hard with the "i" division, so they can counteract the carbon burden of the M division. Government standards for efficiency are averaged across all vehicles offered by a brand. EPS, and other items are one of the prices we pay for keeping a high power I6, and V8 in our M cars.

Being that EPS is controlled by an electric motor, it, also, integrates well into future technologies that are being developed to prevent accidents and deaths. I don't love these nanny systems, but it is the way of the future, or so we're being told.

Do I prefer the hydraulic steering of the previous E chassis BMWs, hell yes! Am I willing to learn to live with the EPS, so I can keep the powerful engines and drivetrains in my current, and future M cars, reluctantly, yes. BMW should poach some of Porsche's engineers. They have done a slightly better job of implementing EPS in a manner that is more similar to their previous hydraulic systems.

[smr123]

Originally Posted by RSXDC5

When I installed GC camber plates, steering numbness went away by an extremely large margin...

What degree of camber are you using??

[nicknaz]

if you don't like it at the test drive, don't expect it to get better over time.

drive one with the mods you are planning to be sure, or take a pass

[Keca10]

Just borrowed a friend's M4 coupe. It seems better than the convertible. Sometimes it's hard to pick up all nuances during a rushed test drive at a dealer.

Still as someone said overall it's not bad or great. It would be nice if it was great. /1stWorld1%erProblems

[Warranty P]

I haven't really gave shit since I'm busy smoking cars on autobahn and at the track. Don't let the test drive consume you, you drove the heavies variant.

[shortseller]

Over a year just crossing 11k miles...am I use to it - no, do I like it - not really, does it keep me from getting into my M every morning and loving the drive - NO!
Pretty much sums it up here!

OP, you too will adapt, no worries.

[Who's on first]

1) Yes
2) Somewhat
3) Buy a Lotus

[Ian1973]

I haven't spent too much time in other cars that are known for their steering feel, but obviously like all of us have owned hydraulic systems before, lastly an E92 335. I may have noticed a little at first, but honestly I don't too much now. But I haven't really taken this car out on weekends and rip up the country side like I have other cars. So maybe that is why it hasn't bothered me that much.

Funny though front end feel may have been reduced, but rear end feel I think has increased given the rigid mount rear end. I feel like I can feel what's going on back there more than the E92 and E46 M3 I have owned.

[Keca10]

Originally Posted by Ian1973

I haven't spent too much time in other cars that are known for their steering feel, but obviously like all of us have owned hydraulic systems before, lastly an E92 335. I may have noticed a little at first, but honestly I don't too much now. But I haven't really taken this car out on weekends and rip up the country side like I have other cars. So maybe that is why it hasn't bothered me that much.

Funny though front end feel may have been reduced, but rear end feel I think has increased given the rigid mount rear end. I feel like I can feel what's going on back there more than the E92 and E46 M3 I have owned.

I 100% agree. The car is so rigid, and suspension is so good - it was clear what the back was doing.

[RSXDC5]

Originally Posted by smr123

What degree of camber are you using??

-3 degrees up front, I would recommend a max of -2 for a great street setup.

I drove for a while at stock camber settings with the plates installed, the increased steering feel was fantastic @ stock alignment settings as well.

[CanAutM3]

Originally Posted by RSXDC5

When I installed GC camber plates, steering numbness went away by an extremely large margin...

This I am happy to hear.

The stock steering wasn't that communicative on my E92, but did it become alive after I installed camber plates. On the E9X chassis, adding camber also increased caster, which has a direct influence on how much force is fed back to the steering wheel.

From what you are reporting, it seems the same holds true for the F8X. I am now even more looking forward on installing my GC camber plates. I received them last week and should be installing in the upcoming weeks.

[Drew@Sonic MS]

Go with the Fall Line Monoball conversion, drastically improved steering feel after.

[mhanism]

Originally Posted by Drew@Sonic MS

Go with the Fall Line Monoball conversion, drastically improved steering feel after.

Is this something that can useful for daily driver/street applications? Or mainly for track or racing use? Thanks!