Top Tier Gasoline Suppliers?

[Three Pedal Steve]

M3 guys are fanatical about their cars! How do we feel about this?
The service manager at the local dealership went to great lengths to warn me about only using top tier gasoline. The problem with ethanol leads to water build-up in the tank.

TOP TIER Gasoline Retailers:

USA
76 Stations
Aloha Petroleum
ARCO
Beacon
BP
Chevron
Cenex
Conoco
Costco Wholesale
CountryMark
Diamond Shamrock
Entec Stations
Express Convenience Centers
Exxon
Hawaii Fueling Network (HFN)
Holiday Stationstores
Kwik Trip / Kwik Star
MFA Oil Co.
Mobil
Ohana Fuels
Phillips 66
QuikTrip
Road Ranger
Shamrock
Shell
Sinclair
Suncor Energy Inc
SuperAmerica
Texaco
Tri-Par Oil Co.
Valero

From- www.Toptiergas.com

[kb9uwu]

around here, we all use Hawaii Fueling Network (HFN)...

[jphughan]

Top Tier and ethanol-free are not the same thing. I only go to Shell or Chevron (or Exxon in a pinch since it's Chevron anyway), but there's nowhere around me that has ethanol-free gas. I feel there are more than enough suppliers on the Top Tier list that there's no excuse for going to some no-name place.

[BzsBimmer]

Yeah as soon as ARCO made the list, I'd agree that there should be NO reason to go to a no-name place!

[cenix]

I've been using Shell even before BMW "teamed" up with them.

[Flying Ace]

Originally Posted by BzsBimmer

Yeah as soon as ARCO made the list, I'd agree that there should be NO reason to go to a no-name place!

once they let ARCO onto the list...who knows what other low life they will let in

[BzsBimmer]

Originally Posted by Flying Ace

once they let ARCO onto the list...who knows what other low life they will let in

Haha. I was thinking that too.

[Three Pedal Steve]

Call me a cynic but these large corporations probably buy their way onto the top tier list. I think the best post here suggests finding a local station with ethanol free gas. Thanks

[rmcard]

Originally Posted by Three Pedal Steve

Call me a cynic but these large corporations probably buy their way onto the top tier list. I think the best post here suggests finding a local station with ethanol free gas. Thanks

Pretty slim pickings in my state...

http://pure-gas.org/index.jsp?stateprov=TX

[Thik]

To paraphrase Freud: Sometimes gasoline is just gasoline.

There are so many cars that run for 300k+ miles without a worry about what kind of gas they put in their cars.

I fill up at an independent gas station. That station does not advertise their gas as Top Tier, but they get their gas from Esso, which is Top Tier. I easily save $5 a tank if I actually filled up at the Esso station I pass by.

[Rajmun340]

Originally Posted by Three Pedal Steve

ethanol free gas. Thanks

+$25,000

[Rajmun340]

Originally Posted by Thik

To paraphrase Freud: Sometimes gasoline is just gasoline.

There are so many cars that run for 300k+ miles without a worry about what kind of gas they put in their cars.

I fill up at an independent gas station. That station does not advertise their gas as Top Tier, but they get their gas from Esso, which is Top Tier. I easily save $5 a tank if I actually filled up at the Esso station I pass by.

The gasoline we put in the tank is the only crucial parameter that bmw cannot control about our car.
Everything else they tested and verified extensively. When the s65 was in its development stage on the bmw bench they used ethanol FREE gas to test long term wear (including starting cycles). That means over 250,000 miles on the test engine. I can guarantee that there was no signs of bearing wear on it when they post-checked internals.

[IB M]

Ethanol free if u can.

[Thik]

Originally Posted by JoeM3SSII

The gasoline we put in the tank is the only crucial parameter that bmw cannot control about our car.
Everything else they tested and verified extensively. When the s65 was in its development stage on the bmw bench they used ethanol FREE gas to test long term wear (including starting cycles). That means over 250,000 miles on the test engine. I can guarantee that there was no signs of bearing wear on it when they post-checked internals.

How do you guarantee that? Were you an engineer there? If true, are you saying the bearing failures are because of ethanol gas?

It's highly implausible for a car manufacturer not to test an engine on gasoline containing up to 10% ethanol especially when the manual permits it and many markets only have ethanol blended gasoline.

they know many consumers will be filling up with gasoline containing ethanol.

[BimmerRookie]

Top tier gas means next to nothing. It's just a pinch of "premier" detergents here and there that make them differentiate (along with ethanol vs non-ethanol). Gasoline all comes from the same place..

IIRC, to be top tier, you just have to have a certain chemical detergent composition as a minimum to be considered (and the list shows that). The rest of it from the major gas companies is simple marketing.

[TVMA Doc]

Originally Posted by Flying Ace

once they let ARCO onto the list...who knows what other low life they will let in

Well, they couldn't let anyone LOWER onto the list.

[TVMA Doc]

Originally Posted by Three Pedal Steve

Call me a cynic but these large corporations probably buy their way onto the top tier list. I think the best post here suggests finding a local station with ethanol free gas. Thanks

Good luck in The People's Socialist Republik of Kalifornistan. They have mandated that alcohol crap, even though evidence is now mounting that it actually does more environmental damage than standard gas.

[dparm]

Man, this shit is still making the rounds? It's mostly marketing, as others have said. There are tons of EPA regs for detergents and additives in gasoline. Just because they exceed those requirements doesn't inherently make them better.

If it gives you peace-of-mind to buy more expensive gas, go for it.

[Three Pedal Steve]

A few years ago my e39 540i six speed built up some water in the gas tank causing serious problems in extreme weather. The dealer said it was a common problem resulting from ethanol / gasoline. The water dissolves in ethanol and then condensates and separates in the gas tank. Jay Leno is right to rant about this.

[burtonsbs5114]

What is ARCO, never heard of it.

I use BP ethanol-free premium. All the Shell stations by me use the ethanol mix.

[Rajmun340]

Originally Posted by IB M

Ethanol free if u can.

Please tell me the location of that pump in NC, might be close enough for me.

[Rajmun340]

Originally Posted by Thik

How do you guarantee that? Were you an engineer there? If true, are you saying the bearing failures are because of ethanol gas?

It's highly implausible for a car manufacturer not to test an engine on gasoline containing up to 10% ethanol especially when the manual permits it and many markets only have ethanol blended gasoline.

they know many consumers will be filling up with gasoline containing ethanol.

Your assumptions do represents a large percentage of end users beliefs on the topic, but unfortunately for me and you it is not what transpires. The naivety of the end users and more importantly the government collusion with the bio fuel special interest groups have allowed a different reality to take hold.

At this point this is a political debate and ongoing strong lobbying from both sides to assert what they want the truth to be. it would not be constructive for me nor you to answer the question directly (this would lead nowhere since there are plenty of false paid sources testing on E10 by lobbyists).

No, instead I will just list a series of historical facts which when put together will enable everyone to draw their own conclusions. Starting by recalling widely known facts across the forum but nonetheless necessary to mention for completeness.

a) The S65 engine developed on Preussen strasse Munich by bmw M division is a 2 cylinders reduction from the 10 cyl s85 engine in the e60 m5 which started production in 2005.

b) Engine design cycle from start to finish begins years before it is produced. The s85 was entirely designed from scratch to finish and had no predecessor. Engine critical testing was finished at least by early to mid 2004.

c) There are no changes in the S65 V8 engine short block from the S85 V10 except the necessary reductions to go from 10 to 8 cylinders. The s65 short block technology is imported from the s85 designed in 2003-2004

d) Europe, especially Germans and German auto manufacturers have strongly opposed ethanol fuels from the beginning (The argument revolving around potential engine damage from E10 was used by the German car and oil industries).

e) it is only in 2009 that European legislation has been put in place to offer E10 and to enforce auto manufacturers to support it. This is many years after the s85 was designed and tested on ethanol free gas. In 2003-2004 Europe there were no signs that E10 would become a future requirement. Corn fuels were not taken seriously (more like a joke) for powering mass produced cars. Car manufacturers are not involved with politics and cannot predict legislation changes.

f) The e10 alternative to gasoline started as a political afterthought from the irak war. The true specialists which are auto manufacturer were not consulted. This is governmental doing. The alleged safety of ethanol blended fuel is something that was lobbied for after the perspective of profits for special interest groups was already clear.

g) Auto manufacturers like bmw were basically left in a "deal with it" situation. They had hundred thousands of cars used by customers still under warranty whose engines had never been developed for E10 use. All meanwhile ethanol special interest groups made and continue to make claims that except for corrosion of metallic parts in the fuel system since replaced by plastics or rust resistant alloys and joints premature wear since replaced by alcohol resistant joints there is no worry about E10. But auto manufacturers who had very much to loose worried about an increase in warranty claims yet remain powerless against governments.

h) The lack of failure on non-performance engines running on e10 or even moderately revving sports car has given a false confidence about e10. Politics are decided on mainstream results not niche cars. The observed reliability of e10 on mainstream cars has alleviated auto manufacturers worries to the point that the balanced tipped for them where they strategically would loose more to battle e10 than to specifically design for it.

i) in 2003, California banned MTBE and replaced MTBE as an octane booster by ethanol. Other states followed over time. In Europe ethanol gas for cars was non-existent and generally thought of as nonsense.

j) The first Honda s2000 engines spun bearing failures started to occur in 2006 three years after E10 introduction in california and occurences peaked in 2007-2008 when engines had been running 3-4 years on E10. (i have logs of 14 such s2000 spun bearing failures).
the e46 m3 s54 engine bearing failures occurrences follow a similar time table.

k) To this day there are only three countries in Europe where one can buy E10: France, Germany and Finland. ( not Sweden, the Netherlands, Belgium, Lithuania, Bulgaria and not the U.K.)

l) No s65 used in the UK has failed from rod bearing failure.

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