Blizzak WS80 vs LM32

[kraeburn]

I have always run whatever the newest performance variant Blizzak offers for winter tires whether it be the LM-60 most recently or the LM-25's in the past. The reason being is that I have always had an AWD car (VW R32>Evo>S4) so I could sacrifice ultimate snow traction for dry performance.

Now that I have a high-hp RWD car I feel as though I may need to step up to something less compromised but give up the dry performance. For added context, I live in RI but drive up to VT every weekend to ski and also since I am a business owner I sometimes need to be able to get into work in poor weather. Granted, my parents live a mile away and have a RS7 and Cayenne Turbo (both with snow tires) that I can borrow in a pinch. For what its worth, I do live on a hill and our ski house is up a steep, curved driveway.

Should I just bite the bullet and get WS80's or similar and grind my teeth when its dry out and it is wobbling all over? I am a good driver in the snow so I can handle the car fine, I am worried about the half dozen days a year when we actually need them. Hopefully some of you have had experiences with these types of cars in a similar use case.

[Matt_B]

I had WS80s on my Audi last winter. Fantastic snow and ice tire but drives like complete mush on dry roads. That was in an A4 - I would have hated it in a dynamic car like the M3. Also worth considering that they don't come in a great size for the M3 - 245/50R18 and 245/40R18 are probably the closest and each will throw off your speedo about 3.5%.

Still, I understand your concerns. How much snow are you expecting on those half a dozen days?

[kraeburn]

Originally Posted by Matt_B

I had WS80s on my Audi last winter. Fantastic snow and ice tire but drives like complete mush on dry roads. That was in an A4 - I would have hated it in a dynamic car like the M3. Also worth considering that they don't come in a great size for the M3 - 245/50R18 and 245/40R18 are probably the closest and each will throw off your speedo about 3.5%.

Still, I understand your concerns. How much snow are you expecting on those half a dozen days?

Thats what I am concerned about. I am not looking to set records at this years BMWCCA ice racing, I just want peace of mind--without being annoyed at the car's performance being completely neutered by the tires.

I don't expect it to be like last year which was bananas. Most of the time the roads around here are dry but when I do run into snow it is usually 2-4" on the road itself but mostly hardpack and ice. In my experience with the LM-60 it would show its weakness in loose stuff--it felt like the treadblocks would fill up and it would feel very loose. Not a big deal in the S4 because I could just monster through stuff. They also were not fantastic on ice and polished snow. All this was expected and mirrors what the test data said. Despite these concerns until you threw it into a corner it felt pretty rock solid. When driving cars with the WS series tires you could feel tread squirm on the highway just changing lanes.

Perhaps I am answering my own question but I am afraid the LM-25's will be too compromised to tackle anything resembling a snowstorm. I also realize that in my past cars I would go out in every type of weather imaginable, with the M3 I will simply avoid it. For example, when we would get a monster snow storm I would just drive straight through it to VT, many times plowing my own way down the highway. I won't be doing that anymore, I'll be safer for it despite my own arrogance about my winter driving abilities.

[Mr Pete]

I didn't know they had ws series tires for the M. I personally would get the ws over lm, as I want the best winter tire. I ran ws60 or 80 (can't remember) on my gti, and I loved those tires. But when temperature got above 40-45, they felt like crap. But deep snow, ice, that tire was amazing. Always felt safe and in control of my vehicle,

[RKAM3]

You're not going to have your cake and eat it too. Best way to look at it is how much time on snow and ice vs blacktop. If it's less than 25:75, for example, get the LM's and enjoy some of the car's dynamics on dry roads. Yes, it will be annoying when you're trying to get up a hill and maybe you'll have to clear the snow first.

I'm struggling with the same dilemma. Ultimately my issue is being able to stop/turn quickly because there are just too many people on the roads, they don't do a great job of treating the roads during and up to 48 hours after a storm, and frankly, people don't maintain their cars. Since the state stopped doing mechanical inspections several years back, you notice more cars on the roads with burned out bulbs, bald tires, screeching brakes (not the kind of cars that would ever have track pads on them), etc. these factors make a commute in the snow treacherous, I'll give up the dry performance for the snow and ice grip.

[Racer20]

I have WS80's on my ZHP and Michelin X-Ice's on my 228i. Both have great snow traction, but the Michelin is far better in the dry. Both are a lot better on snow and ice than any performance snow I've had.

[teefive]

Originally Posted by Racer20

I have WS80's on my ZHP and Michelin X-Ice's on my 228i. Both have great snow traction, but the Michelin is far better in the dry. Both are a lot better on snow and ice than any performance snow I've had.

Xi2 or Xi3?

[kraeburn]

Originally Posted by RKAM3

You're not going to have your cake and eat it too. Best way to look at it is how much time on snow and ice vs blacktop. If it's less than 25:75, for example, get the LM's and enjoy some of the car's dynamics on dry roads. Yes, it will be annoying when you're trying to get up a hill and maybe you'll have to clear the snow first.

I'm struggling with the same dilemma. Ultimately my issue is being able to stop/turn quickly because there are just too many people on the roads, they don't do a great job of treating the roads during and up to 48 hours after a storm, and frankly, people don't maintain their cars. Since the state stopped doing mechanical inspections several years back, you notice more cars on the roads with burned out bulbs, bald tires, screeching brakes (not the kind of cars that would ever have track pads on them), etc. these factors make a commute in the snow treacherous, I'll give up the dry performance for the snow and ice grip.

Yeah, I realize that and it is a tricky decision. To clarify my question, I am interested in what is really required for a RWD car. For my previous AWD vehicles it was an easy decision--just get a performance snow.

Since the WS-80's only come in 18" sizes for this car I was thinking of going with a 19" Hakka R2 and perhaps the lower sidewall height will mitigate the "squirminess" of the tread. Has anyone done this?

[Racer20]

Originally Posted by teefive

Xi2 or Xi3?

I bought them last January, pretty sure xi3.

[Racer20]

Originally Posted by kraeburn

Yeah, I realize that and it is a tricky decision. To clarify my question, I am interested in what is really required for a RWD car. For my previous AWD vehicles it was an easy decision--just get a performance snow.

Since the WS-80's only come in 18" sizes for this car I was thinking of going with a 19" Hakka R2 and perhaps the lower sidewall height will mitigate the "squirminess" of the tread. Has anyone done this?

See my post a few above. My X-ice's in 17" have better steering response than my 18" WS80's. 19" won't negate the squirm much more.

[kraeburn]

Originally Posted by Racer20

See my post a few above. My X-ice's in 17" have better steering response than my 18" WS80's. 19" won't negate the squirm much more.

Thanks. About to move ahead with my order, what I plan to do is get 255/35/19 Nokian Hakka R2's on VMR V721 wheels. My thinking being that they are a known quantity performance-wise and the 19" size is purely for aesthetics. I want peace of mind and these should provide that. With regards to dry performance, I am giving up something there but all snows are a compromise in that regard, this is just more so.

Also, I have always trumpeted to my (all-season tire using) friends that tires make a much bigger difference than AWD. They all think I'm going to have big issues with this car in the snow and these should ensure I prove them wrong this winter.

[RKAM3]

19" won't negate the squirm. The issue is the tread blocks flexing under load and that is pretty consistent no matter what size tire you're getting.

The R2's are pretty good. Should not be as squirmy as a Blizzak WS, but definitely more so than an LM! I have a low profile set on the Audi where I previously ran 2 sets of wintersport 3D's. I certainly feel the loss of dry grip, but it's acceptable given the extra snow/ice traction I got. These were my first choice for the M as well, however, they were not offered in the group buy package, so I opted for the Xi3 which should be comparable in terms of snow/dry performance tradeoffs.

I think you'll be very happy. But the only way to show your friends up is to let them drive it in the white stuff so they can see how much more control you have. Are you willing?

[kraeburn]

Originally Posted by RKAM3

19" won't negate the squirm. The issue is the tread blocks flexing under load and that is pretty consistent no matter what size tire you're getting.

The R2's are pretty good. Should not be as squirmy as a Blizzak WS, but definitely more so than an LM! I have a low profile set on the Audi where I previously ran 2 sets of wintersport 3D's. I certainly feel the loss of dry grip, but it's acceptable given the extra snow/ice traction I got. These were my first choice for the M as well, however, they were not offered in the group buy package, so I opted for the Xi3 which should be comparable in terms of snow/dry performance tradeoffs.

I think you'll be very happy. But the only way to show your friends up is to let them drive it in the white stuff so they can see how much more control you have. Are you willing?

0% chance I let any of my friends drive this car in the white stuff. I think a day at the O'Neil Rally school would be a minimum prerequisite.

[RKAM3]

Perfect, I've been there twice in my Audi's! .