Autocross Tires

[jclaib7]

I attended my first autocross school with the BMW CCA this past weekend at the Devens airport in Mass. What a blast taking this car to it's limits, and beyond a few times.

The car handled well and felt balanced but my tires were clearly holding me back. I have 4 season Yokohama ZPS tires, which I thought were "high performance" but are clearly not meant for autocross.

So, what tires to get for my next autocross event? Ideally i'd like to get a runflat high performance summer tire to put on my 17" rims. And then i'll grab a cheap set of rims and Blizzaks for the winter.

Recommendations for a daily summer driving & occasional autocross tire?

[Olgeezer1]

Check out the "Tire Rack" reviews in the performance category you're interested in. Lots of good choices from all the major manufacturers. Something from max. performance summer tires should suit you. Top honors often seem to go to the Michelin Pilot Super Sport but again, there's lots of choice depending on budget. Might want to look into getting away from runflats. You'll have a lot more choice of better tires for less money. BIG improvement in ride. Easy enough to pick up a small jack & donut spare.

[ShocknAwe]

all seasons won't grip nearly as well as a max summer tire. or you can go extreme category, which would probably be better.

[Kgolf31]

Runflat high performance tires are not possible.

[Esteban]

Originally Posted by Kgolf31

Runflat high performance tires are not possible.

Technically, not true. Tire Rack sells ultra high performance summer run-flat tires, maximum performance summer run-flat tires, as well as high performance summer run-flat tires.

[Kgolf31]

Originally Posted by EvenEsteban

Technically, not true. Tire Rack sells ultra high performance summer run-flat tires, maximum performance summer run-flat tires, as well as high performance summer run-flat tires.

Ok.

So take those and try to run them against a Hankook RS3 or any actual high performance tire. Let me know what the outcome is.

It's like saying you can have high performance all-season tires too

[NVHoo]

Originally Posted by Kgolf31

Ok.

So take those and try to run them against a Hankook RS3 or any actual high performance tire. Let me know what the outcome is.

It's like saying you can have high performance all-season tires too

Although I'd like to see some actual professional tests, the popular consensus is that run-flats tend to be lower performance than regular tires. Car and Driver did a test of 10 ultra high performance regular summer tires a few years ago and the Michelin Super Sports were the clear winner. Consumer Reports ranks them very high too. However, there were tires that had better dry road grip than the PSS if your primary focus is autocross. CR also recently tested the Nokian Z series and they scored almost as well as the PSS. The Nokians were rated better in wet traction but poorer in tread life. (Typically the stickier the tire, the faster the wear.)

Be advised that some untra-high performance Yokohama, Toyo, and the Nokian Z suffer cold compound cracking if exposed to below freezing temps - even if they are not mounted and just sitting in an unheated garage.

[Esteban]

Originally Posted by Kgolf31

Ok.

So take those and try to run them against a Hankook RS3 or any actual high performance tire. Let me know what the outcome is.

It's like saying you can have high performance all-season tires too

They are what they are, but they're still classified as high performance, ultra high performance and maximum performance summer tires. I was merely pointing out that your statement isn't true.

Some of these run-flats are ranked higher than regular high performance summer tires in Tire Rack's passenger tire survey section, which means a lot of people are happy with them.

I run maximum performance summer run-flats and am perfectly satisfied with them. They drive just as I expect them to, and on occasion, I've been known to drive very spiritedly. I dont race or autocross, and never will so I don't claim to be a race car driving expert and will never be comparing them to other tires on the track. For my purposes, they do just what I want. Plus they have the practicality of a run-flat.

Since I've had my 2011 135i I have had two flats, and both times I was able to drive to the local tire shop and get a new tire. The last thing I want is for my car to be towed. That hasn't happened yet and never will, at least due to a flat, and I can thank my tires for that. I'll take a little less performance for that convenience.

[Xyloft]

I've ran a few events on the perreli Eufori@ that came with my car and also the PZeros i have on it now. they work alright, but they are not the best tool for the job. i think they are both discontinued though.

what tire pressure were you running at the event? that can make a huge difference on handling at an AutoX.

I put 12,000 miles on my summer set a year, and maybe 1-2 autoX events a year. I personally couldn't justify buying a third set of dedicated rims for AutoX or sacrificing my trunk by putting a spare in it since it is my only car.

I've always wanted to run this car on a set of Hankook R-S3's.

I hated the blizzaks RFTs I had for winter at first. I have a setup of Dunlop winters on now and I love them.

[Esteban]

Originally Posted by Xyloft

I've ran a few events on the perreli Eufori@ that came with my car and also the PZeros i have on it now. they work alright, but they are not the best tool for the job. i think they are both discontinued though.

I recently bought a set of Pirelli P Zero run-flat tires for my 135i with DOT dates in the 2015s. Not sure if that's the same tire you're talking about and not sure if Pirelli still makes them but that is a pretty recent manufacturing date as far as tires go.

[Kgolf31]

Originally Posted by EvenEsteban

They are what they are, but they're still classified as high performance, ultra high performance and maximum performance summer tires. I was merely pointing out that your statement isn't true.

Some of these run-flats are ranked higher than regular high performance summer tires in Tire Rack's passenger tire survey section, which means a lot of people are happy with them.

I run maximum performance summer run-flats and am perfectly satisfied with them. They drive just as I expect them to, and on occasion, I've been known to drive very spiritedly. I dont race or autocross, and never will so I don't claim to be a race car driving expert and will never be comparing them to other tires on the track. For my purposes, they do just what I want. Plus they have the practicality of a run-flat.

Since I've had my 2011 135i I have had two flats, and both times I was able to drive to the local tire shop and get a new tire. The last thing I want is for my car to be towed. That hasn't happened yet and never will, at least due to a flat, and I can thank my tires for that. I'll take a little less performance for that convenience.

If you read everything off as fact then your marketing's prime customer.


This thread is about autocross. If you want to be competitive, and have the best tires. Best you stick away from run-flats

[Esteban]

Originally Posted by Kgolf31

If you read everything off as fact then your marketing's prime customer.


This thread is about autocross. If you want to be competitive, and have the best tires. Best you stick away from run-flats

Thanks for the advice but I don't care about being competitive, and I think tire manufacturers and Tire Rack know a little more than you about what a "high performance" tire is.

[Kgolf31]

Originally Posted by EvenEsteban

Thanks for the advice but I don't care about being competitive, and I think tire manufacturers and Tire Rack know a little more than you about what a "high performance" tire is.

Ah yes, of course.

Because the reviews are purely based off of customer review, and can be high biased depending on the customer base and type of tire.


Perfect example:

http://www.tirerack.com/tires/survey...ay.jsp?type=EP

Extreme Performance tires shows that the RE-11A is the ZOMG BEST TIRE OUT THERE due to surveys.

However, I dare you to waste your money on that tire.

Pull up any National SCCA autocross and you'll find out no one in their right mind would ever mount that tire for their car. It's absolute garbage.

However, you'll see Hankook RS3v2, Dunlop ZII*, BFG Rival and Rival S, BFG RE-71R all mounted on cars, and winning.


I don't know who you think you are, but you definitely don't know me. Who cares that I've ran Dunlop ZII, Hankook RS3s and soon BFG RE71Rs and can tell you the exact differences between them. I clearly do not know anything at all. It's not like my car is prep'ed purely because I autocross it and have it modified to the extend of the rules or anything.

Because anyone who does that just doesn't know anything about tires.


Well guys, looks like I gotta sell my tires and follow exactly what the surveys say because I'm wrong.



If you're not competitive, then you shouldn't be posting here. OP didn't ask to finish last.

[Esteban]

One more thing I'd like to add, the OP said he'd like to get a "runflat high performance summer tire," so why not steer him in the direction he'd like to go?

[Eyeman]

It would seem that someday a manufacturer will make a runflat that will perform on a track as well as a non-runflat. Then they'd also have to make them as cheap as non-runflats before they would be worthwhile for someone who autocross/tracks their car, since they have to replace their tires much more than the rest of us.

This thread was about autocross tires. The tires KGolf mentions are the choices to go with. I'd probably go with ZIIs if it were me if they come in the sizes you need.

[Kgolf31]

Originally Posted by EvenEsteban

One more thing I'd like to add, the OP said he'd like to get a "runflat high performance summer tire," so why not steer him in the direction he'd like to go?

Because I'm trying to save him money. He is going to be seriously underwhelmed if he gets a run flat that is classified by high performance and it doesn't perform as he expects.

[Esteban]

Originally Posted by Kgolf31

Because I'm trying to save him money. He is going to be seriously underwhelmed if he gets a run flat that is classified by high performance and it doesn't perform as he expects.

Maybe he likes/needs the practicality of a run flat, he must if he's asking for them.

By the way, you're not a moderator and you might be large, but you're definitely not in charge so don't try to tell me where I can post. Comprende amigo?

[jclaib7]

I did some research.

I'd like to get these for summer & autocross: http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires....port%20Package

But these would be more practical, you know, i case I get a flat tire: http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires....omCompare1=yes

I know and agree that i'd lose a bit of performance with the run flat but I need to consider that I may do 2 or 3 autocross events at the most in a summer, so the trade off might make sense.

[MightyMouseTech]

Originally Posted by EvenEsteban

Thanks for the advice but I don't care about being competitive, and I think tire manufacturers and Tire Rack know a little more than you about what a "high performance" tire is.

No offence, but this is terrible advice. The OP is asking about autox tires. If you don't know anything about autox tires, maybe leave it to people who do. Running a RFT tire is terrible advice, I don't care what marketing term Tirerack uses.

[Kgolf31]

Originally Posted by EvenEsteban

Maybe he likes/needs the practicality of a run flat, he must if he's asking for them.

By the way, you're not a moderator and you might be large, but you're definitely not in charge so don't try to tell me where I can post. Comprende amigo?

Ah yes, the big old intimidation factor. Well done.


Anyways, I had to chime in because you're offering terrible advice. Yes, OP said he would "ideally" prefer a RFT tire, but IMO he'd still be very disappointed.


For reference, I've driven close to 15,000 on my Z4M and 30,000 miles on my 128i without runflat tires. Multiple trips excess of 600 + miles there and back with nothing.

RFT tires will make the car feel numb, and kill any handing characteristic of the car. High performance or not the sidewall has no flex in it, which is one of the major components of a tire. But I don't know anything and have never done this before...

[alpho]

RFT and Autocross don't mix..

I use Conti DW for daily/autox, would recommend to anyone looking for a multi purpose tire. A lot of people also rate the PSS highly.

[NVHoo]

Originally Posted by jclaib7

I did some research.

I'd like to get these for summer & autocross: http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires....port%20Package

But these would be more practical, you know, i case I get a flat tire: http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires....omCompare1=yes

I know and agree that i'd lose a bit of performance with the run flat but I need to consider that I may do 2 or 3 autocross events at the most in a summer, so the trade off might make sense.

Can't help you choosing between the 2 tires but take this statement from the Yokos very seriously "...these tires are not intended to be serviced, stored nor driven in near- and below-freezing temperatures, through snow or on ice." That is, the tires can literally crack if exposed to below freezing temps while sitting unmounted in your garage in MA.

For my area and my driving, run-flats are worthless. Living in the west and driving a lot of long trips for fun in rural UT, NV, AZ, NM, I am often 50+ miles from the nearest tire store so a flat in run-flats is still a tow. In fact, this is even true for long portions of the drive between Vegas and LA. Also, your everyday garage does not have the special equipment needed to replace a runflat, and the probability of having an exact replacement runflat anywhere within 100 miles in a rural area is virtually zero. I run regular tires and carry a spare which I just used a week ago when I got a tire pressure warning 75 miles from the nearest tire store in AZ while traveling I-40. IMO runflats are worthless in the west unless you rarely drive out of the city, but Ok for you guys in the NE