It seems we are not alone in our cars when we are by ourselves

[42pilot]

Yikes...

This is a link to an article on electronics in our cars.

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/685fe610-9...#axzz3OtrBvmE9

[Xeno]

I cannot read the article. Is there another link?

[hyde]

Originally Posted by Xeno

I cannot read the article. Is there another link?

In case article turns into paid:

BMW sounds alarm over tech companies seeking connected car data

Technology companies and advertisers are putting pressure on carmakers to pass on data collected by connected cars, BMW has warned, highlighting the concerns the automotive industry faces as it treads a fine line between performance and privacy.

Ian Robertson, the German manufacturer’s board member for sales and marketing, said that every car rolling off its production lines had a wireless network that could yield information about location, speed, acceleration and even the occupants of the car.

“There’s plenty of people out there saying: ‘give us all the data you’ve got and we can tell you what we can do with it’,” he told the Financial Times on the sidelines of the Detroit motor show, adding that this included “Silicon Valley” companies, as well as advertising groups. “And we’re saying: ‘No thank you’.”

About two-thirds of today’s new cars have sensors and communications systems that send and receive data, offering potential for carmakers to find out more about how drivers use their vehicles. But the systems could also provide insurers and advertisers with personal information about customers.

BMW said it had a firewall in place to protect crucial data about the internal running of the car. But any transmission of data raises concerns about who might access that information — and what they might do with it.

Adam Jonas, analyst at Morgan Stanley, said it was a “major issue” for carmakers, which “ unanimously want to create a barrier on this information”. He said: “They don’t want to be the first one to let [their] guard down on information privacy or to become the first company to have a car hacked with bad consequences and image.”

Ford was forced into an embarrassing retraction at last year’s Consumer Electronics Show in Las Vegas after Jim Farley, then head of marketing at the US carmaker, said: “We know everyone who breaks the law. We know exactly when you do it because we have a GPS sensor in your car.” He added: “By the way, we don’t supply that data to anyone.”

Mr Farley later clarified that the company did not track anyone without their permission.

The scale of the data collected by modern vehicles goes beyond how fast or far cars have driven. In an illustration of the potential data that could be surrendered by carmakers, Mr Robertson said that BMW cars knew whether a child was on board, based on weight sensors in the seats linked to the airbag system.

“Several companies have said: ‘We’d like to know that data because then we will know whether it’s an adult or a child sitting in the car’,” said Mr Robertson.

He said that advertisers also wanted to know how long the engine has been running so that they could tell “from the navigation system, they’re about to pass a McDonald’s, the car’s been running for three hours and the child’s probably hungry”.

[opasha]

The end is near...lol.

[hyde]

Originally Posted by opasha

The end is near...lol.

Kidding aside if this information can be subpenaed, there could be a lot of problems (or advantages) in divorce cases if wife can prove husband made a stop between work and home.. It's not like we are carrying advanced computers in our pockets disguised as phones, sharing every single information with various companies, or willingly share our location & pictures online with strangers.. Because that would be creepy. So bottom line is, it's too late to worry about these things in our cars.. Sadly, we are way pass that stage.

[opasha]

Originally Posted by hyde

Kidding aside if this information can be subpenaed, there could be a lot of problems (or advantages) in divorce cases if wife can prove husband made a stop between work and home.. It's not like we are carrying advanced computers in our pockets disguised as phones, sharing every single information with various companies, or willingly share our location & pictures online with strangers.. Because that would be creepy. So bottom line is, it's too late to worry about these things in our cars.. Sadly, we are way pass that stage.

Haha, I'm pretty sure that would be a minute problem compared to what they can do with that information. We live in a free country. This is completely against what it stands on.

[hyde]

Originally Posted by opasha

Haha, I'm pretty sure that would be a minute problem compared to what they can do with that information. We live in a free country. This is completely against what it stands on.

I am sure it's in one of those tens of pages we sign when we take delivery. It's like EULA's, who reads them...

As for the information, I bet they have psychologists reviewing the collected data and making subtle changes to random stuff so they can make us buy more stuff and pay more. It's like those website and tracking cookies that review your search history and determine that you are highly likely to purchase something and that something suddenly shows up at higher cost everywhere. Sort of like making men's search results markup the prices on belts and ties, and women's mark up on shoes and bags. They know we won't buy handbags so prices are not inflated in our search results. I think this was a big thing 5-6 years ago, finally users caught up with the tactics.. Who knows what else is going on that we will only be aware of 5 years later.

[gatordent]

If and maybe when BMW decides to give/sell this info, I will be clipping some wires :|

[Doanster]

Despite all the chivalrous statements about privacy for the people, make no mistake that they are already using the data internally.
Possibilities of simple things like actual/real-world MPG pivoted/pareto'd against Auto Start-Stop activation to more intrusive things like seeing who all has coded their cars and to what extent (a la the possible demise of this ability going fwd). Got in an accident that wasn't your fault? "We show that you coded 'DVD in motion' and were watching Fast'n'Furious 15 at the time of impact."

Like Hyde said, it's prob all in the EULA we signed. I can tell you when I pressed the SOS button as part of the Welcome to BMW Assist tasks, the CSR pinpointed my location within seconds, down to a few feet of accuracy.

[opasha]

Originally Posted by Doanster

Despite all the chivalrous statements about privacy for the people, make no mistake that they are already using the data internally.
Possibilities of simple things like actual/real-world MPG pivoted/pareto'd against Auto Start-Stop activation to more intrusive things like seeing who all has coded their cars and to what extent (a la the possible demise of this ability going fwd). Got in an accident that wasn't your fault? "We show that you coded 'DVD in motion' and were watching Fast'n'Furious 15 at the time of impact."

Like Hyde said, it's prob all in the EULA we signed. I can tell you when I pressed the SOS button as part of the Welcome to BMW Assist tasks, the CSR pinpointed my location within seconds, down to a few feet of accuracy.

Yep, it pinpointed my exact Longitude and Latitude of where I was located when I first called them to test the SOS button.

[42pilot]

But also think about the application to warranty and insurance purposes.

Your average speed is 48 mph - the national average is 36. Your new premium is 50% higher.

Your warranty is void due to 33 WOT (wide open throttle) operations last week. Or you exceeded the lateral G limit clearly stated in the owner's manual.

Coupled with a GPS - your speed through school zones is consistently over the speed limit. Your insurance is cancelled. But, school was closed for spring break?!?!

[MattBianco]

42pilot .... Our defense:

- at the time of the accident I was trying to figure out how to move around iDrive menus
- there was an X on my navi and no explanation. I was wondering what's there and got stuck in flood
- the car behind me did not notice my turn signal because it was red, not amber as DOT recommends
- I tried to move out of the way, but was delayed as ecopro had shut off the engine
- I was distracted by the repeated PDC fail alarm that comes on every few minutes
- the amber triangle in my blind spot detector was too faint with the sun behind me
- as I looked down to find the steering heater button...crash
- I was mislead by anti dazzle decoded to mean it can be coded, as such I didn't have good visibility during the night drive
- I panicked after my soft close door popped open
- I tried to warn with the horn, but the horn has a 1 second daly.

[Baunton]

FYI: http://telematicswire.net/bmw-declin...YMpUwqU5X%2E99

I'm sure, with all the terrorist activities on-going in the world that if its not already happening our respective governments will soon make it mandatory for manufactures to provide such information to their security forces in the same way as fixed and mobile networks do so now. Happy Days!

[Baunton]

Originally Posted by MattBianco

42pilot .... Our defense:

- at the time of the accident I was trying to figure out how to move around iDrive menus
- there was an X on my navi and no explanation. I was wondering what's there and got stuck in flood
- the car behind me did not notice my turn signal because it was red, not amber as DOT recommends
- I tried to move out of the way, but was delayed as ecopro had shut off the engine
- I was distracted by the repeated PDC fail alarm that comes on every few minutes
- the amber triangle in my blind spot detector was too faint with the sun behind me
- as I looked down to find the steering heater button...crash
- I was mislead by anti dazzle decoded to mean it can be coded, as such I didn't have good visibility during the night drive
- I panicked after my soft close door popped open
- I tried to warn with the horn, but the horn has a 1 second daly.

With respect you missed off;

- My wife was on the phone and was distracted whilst searching for her lip stick

[Babs]

The insurance companies will really like to get access to information like to increase premiums and pay out less. The security side of this is interesting as well. Governments already can have access to data from fixed and mobile networks. I agree with Baunton. Only a matter of time before auto companies are 'forced' to give up this data for the sake of national security.

[hyde]

Originally Posted by MattBianco

42pilot .... Our defense:

- at the time of the accident I was trying to figure out how to move around iDrive menus
- there was an X on my navi and no explanation. I was wondering what's there and got stuck in flood
- the car behind me did not notice my turn signal because it was red, not amber as DOT recommends
- I tried to move out of the way, but was delayed as ecopro had shut off the engine
- I was distracted by the repeated PDC fail alarm that comes on every few minutes
- the amber triangle in my blind spot detector was too faint with the sun behind me
- as I looked down to find the steering heater button...crash
- I was mislead by anti dazzle decoded to mean it can be coded, as such I didn't have good visibility during the night drive
- I panicked after my soft close door popped open
- I tried to warn with the horn, but the horn has a 1 second daly.

To their defense, your idrive screen was too dusty to see anything anyway.

But with every single item in the list it made me chuckle. Especially horn, where just yesterday someone was attempting to jaywalk, by the time I see them getting off the curb and they hear my horn, they had already taken few steps. Seriously, I hate this horn.

[MKDFW]

We are all being tracked, nearly 100% of the time. In addition, as an example of "dynamic" pricing, Amazon, Airline Websites, and Retailers all adjust pricing based on browsing history, and location. Before you use Waze or Google Maps for navigation, take 20 minutes to read the licensing agreement. You will realize that there is no privacy. Why would automobile manufacturers, and their partners be any different?

[MattBianco]

Originally Posted by hyde

To their defense, your idrive screen was too dusty to see anything anyway.

hahaha.....Rebuttal .... the iDrive is statically charged and gets covered in so much dust you cannot see the information you need.

[hyde]

Originally Posted by MattBianco

hahaha.....Rebuttal .... the iDrive is statically charged and gets covered in so much dust you cannot see the information you need.

Hmm.. That's like my windshield is holding water, why should I have to use the wiper.

But yeah I hate that pretty much everywhere in new BMW interior is a dust magnet, I don't know why it get so much dust in there, It might be the "lint free microfiber" I am using, not so lint free. I might end up using the swiffer myself.

Back to topic, I am curious if there has ever been a case where they freed or prosecuted someone by using their vehicle data. This would make a great "Good Wife" episode, since they love this sort of up to date cool stuff. Niko, why not pitch the idea? Or maybe I should, since they film couple of episodes on my street every season.

[MattBianco]

hyde I recall an insurance company used a vehicle "black box" to fight another insurance company in courty several years ago. I don't recall the details, but for some reason Utah comes to mind.

Me? I don't pitch any ideas. I could not sell water in the Sahara for free.

[bluelodge400]

Law Enforcement also has access to this information.

Originally Posted by opasha

Yep, it pinpointed my exact Longitude and Latitude of where I was located when I first called them to test the SOS button.