Should I get an M3?

[legowarrior]

I've owned several 3 series over the years and enjoyed driving all of them, but never an M. I'm seriously considering getting an F80, but I'm wondering if it's overkill. I basically bike to work during weekdays and drive mostly on the weekends to get around town. I don't track.

For folks who use the F80 for normal street driving, does anyone feel that the car's full potential is simply being wasted and you don't get as much enjoyment out of it? I'm wondering if I'll be better off just getting an F30 instead for day-to-day driving pleasure, taking cost of ownership out of the equation. Thoughts, advice?

[onlybmw]

Getting an M is NEVER overkill if you ask me and if you're into real performace. It's a COMPLETELY different car than the 3 series. If you LOVE sports cars and driving (like I do), then it's worth it. If you're looking for something to get you from point A to B in a only fashionable and stylish way, the 3 series will do. Hope that helps.

[vampire81]

what keeps me away from getting an F80/82 is my 135i.

[fun2drv]

When you say 3 series, which model are you talking about? If you are happy with the small engine, then the M3 will be overkill. If you have experienced the 335i and still want some more, then you should at least go and test drive one. The M3 is a totally different beast!!!

[erind]

Yes this car is overkill for most of the time in public roads. You will never be able to explore its full potential but still it will put a smile on your face everyday.

On topic:
If you can, go for it

[SDSmurf]

i see it like this; an M3 can always mimic a 320 but a 320 cannot always mimic an M3.

[Falafel Combo]

Originally Posted by legowarrior

I've owned several 3 series over the years and enjoyed driving all of them, but never an M. I'm seriously considering getting an F80, but I'm wondering if it's overkill. I basically bike to work during weekdays and drive mostly on the weekends to get around town. I don't track.

For folks who use the F80 for normal street driving, does anyone feel that the car's full potential is simply being wasted and you don't get as much enjoyment out of it? I'm wondering if I'll be better off just getting an F30 instead for day-to-day driving pleasure, taking cost of ownership out of the equation. Thoughts, advice?

Yes. By definition, using a car designed and equipped for track use, primarily on public roads, would be overkill.


Not to mention frustrating. You can barely enjoy the M3 within the limits of responsibility, the "law" and poor design of most public roads. Ok, maybe you can pretend that you're racing someone when you downshift to merge with traffic or launching from a traffic light, but that lasts what? 5 seconds?


Your uses dictate a 3 series. A 328i actually. Even a 335i is too much car for the uses you describe here.


I went from a 335i, to an M3, and now back to a 335i. Personally, I thought the M3 (e92) was grossly over-engineered for public road use. Not to mention a seriously over hyped car. The f80 has FAR more promise, and is IMO, a huge improvement over the e92.


Alas, I do not entirely miss my e92 M3. The main reason I am getting an f80 M3 is because I was planning on upgrading to the f30 335i LCI, and figured it would cost roughly the same to modify the 335i as it would to just upgrade to an M3. By the time you pay for upgrading the brakes, exhaust, wheels, rear differential, adding the MPPK (M Performance Power Kit), and a few cosmetic mods on a 335i, you've essentially paid way more than you would have an M3. Before you know it, the M car becomes an easy decision. It's a bargain actually. And it's just freakin badass! That's reason enough! But I am under no illusions that the M3 would better suit my needs than my 335i. I love the 335i!


And I personally find it amusing that some folks here, who without fail, claim that the M3 "is a completely different car" than a 335i. I'm sorry guys. It's just not. It's better, absolutely! But saying that it is a "completely different car" is really setting yourself up for disappointment. Big time. The M3 is a factory modified 335i. Bigger brakes, stiffer chassis, M modified powertrain with 100+ hp/tq, upgraded track-ready suspension bits and some artificial noise. You can go into the nitty gritty details and point out how there are a lot of M specific parts parts, and there are many. But it does not make it a totally different car. It's not like a bunch of bozos designed the 3 series. The BMW 335i is already an exceptionally capable, precisely engineered and track-tested and designed car ... which is why M uses it as a base for their M3.


Personally, I love the fact that BMW did all the leg work modifying and perfecting a 3 series for me. That way I can keep it stock, under warranty and just enjoy it without worrying which mod broke what. The M badge recognition is a bonus. PLUS it looks at least 10x better than my 335i. But that's mostly it, if I'm being entirely honest.


That is my opinion, and buyers perspective on why i'm getting an M car VS sticking with a 335i. Obviously many others will disagree. Which is OK. You need to be honest with yourself, and buy the car that best suits YOUR particular needs. Getting a more expensive car, mostly because your budget allows it does not guarantee that you will be any more happy driving it. Bottom line is you should have comfort in knowing that you really can't go wrong either way!

[OneRib]

Originally Posted by legowarrior

I've owned several 3 series over the years and enjoyed driving all of them, but never an M. I'm seriously considering getting an F80, but I'm wondering if it's overkill. I basically bike to work during weekdays and drive mostly on the weekends to get around town. I don't track.

For folks who use the F80 for normal street driving, does anyone feel that the car's full potential is simply being wasted and you don't get as much enjoyment out of it? I'm wondering if I'll be better off just getting an F30 instead for day-to-day driving pleasure, taking cost of ownership out of the equation. Thoughts, advice?

I had a similar situation as you. I don't track my cars and had a 2007 335 sedan. I just use my car for a daily driver. When it came time to replace it, I eventually picked up a 2013 M3. I was not sure how much different it would feel to me.

I knew there would be more power, but once I had the car its more than that. The suspension, braking, handling were all noticeably improved. Even a driving amateur would notice the difference. Also the interior leather was an upgrade; throw in the more aggressive look, sounds, and free maintenance and its a even more appealing package. Now I can't wait to order an M3 this coming Summer.

As far as using it close to the full potential, you will use it on public roads in very small doses. Passing on the highway, passing on a dotted yellow line, emergency braking, emergency maneuvers to get around danger, and the occasional WOT freeway entrance. Any US spec 3 series is overkill for the road, because they all have more power than you can use safely use on public roads.

So yes the M3 is overkill for the road, but if you can enjoy the differences the car offers on public roads, it doesn't matter if you use its "full" potential.
It's an overrated concept that only really only matters if you are easily frustrated you can't drive a car as hard as possible on public roads.

Also ask this question over on the regular F80 forums. We aren't the most objective crowd.

[Lister]

Originally Posted by Falafel Combo

Yes. By definition, using a car designed and equipped for track use, primarily on public roads, would be overkill.


Not to mention frustrating. You can barely enjoy the M3 within the limits of responsibility, the "law" and poor design of most public roads. Ok, maybe you can pretend that you're racing someone when you downshift to merge with traffic or launching from a traffic light, but that lasts what? 5 seconds?


Your uses dictate a 3 series. A 328i actually. Even a 335i is too much car for the uses you describe here.


I went from a 335i, to an M3, and now back to a 335i. Personally, I thought the M3 (e92) was grossly over-engineered for public road use. Not to mention a seriously over hyped car. The f80 has FAR more promise, and is IMO, a huge improvement over the e92.


Alas, I do not entirely miss my e92 M3. The main reason I am getting an f80 M3 is because I was planning on upgrading to the f30 335i LCI, and figured it would cost roughly the same to modify the 335i as it would to just upgrade to an M3. By the time you pay for upgrading the brakes, exhaust, wheels, rear differential, adding the MPPK (M Performance Power Kit), and a few cosmetic mods on a 335i, you've essentially paid way more than you would have an M3. Before you know it, the M car becomes an easy decision. It's a bargain actually. And it's just freakin badass! That's reason enough! But I am under no illusions that the M3 would better suit my needs than my 335i. I love the 335i!


And I personally find it amusing that some folks here, who without fail, claim that the M3 "is a completely different car" than a 335i. I'm sorry guys. It's just not. It's better, absolutely! But saying that it is a "completely different car" is really setting yourself up for disappointment. Big time. The M3 is a factory modified 335i. Bigger brakes, stiffer chassis, M modified powertrain with 100+ hp/tq, upgraded track-ready suspension bits and some artificial noise. You can go into the nitty gritty details and point out how there are a lot of M specific parts parts, and there are many. But it does not make it a totally different car. It's not like a bunch of bozos designed the 3 series. The BMW 335i is already an exceptionally capable, precisely engineered and track-tested and designed car ... which is why M uses it as a base for their M3.


Personally, I love the fact that BMW did all the leg work modifying and perfecting a 3 series for me. That way I can keep it stock, under warranty and just enjoy it without worrying which mod broke what. The M badge recognition is a bonus. PLUS it looks at least 10x better than my 335i. But that's mostly it, if I'm being entirely honest.


That is my opinion, and buyers perspective on why i'm getting an M car VS sticking with a 335i. Obviously many others will disagree. Which is OK. You need to be honest with yourself, and buy the car that best suits YOUR particular needs. Getting a more expensive car, mostly because your budget allows it does not guarantee that you will be any more happy driving it. Bottom line is you should have comfort in knowing that you really can't go wrong either way!

This is great commentary.

I have a E92 335i and an f80 M3. I love my f80 and still get to drive the e92 335i as its now my wife's daily driver. What strikes me most driving the 335i is it seems to be engineered for everyday driving and its tolerances are much closer to daily constraints. So it feels closer to the edge when you drive it - which is quite appealing. I think that's part of the attraction of the M235i.

To be honest, I think if you can't track or won't track your M3, then you basically get it if you can afford it, but not for the useable performance on the streets - as it shares the same constraint envelope as a 335i on the public road.

My opinions only, and I suspect some will heavily disagree. I do love both cars and they are quite different to experience.

[mkoesel]

Originally Posted by SDSmurf

i see it like this; an M3 can always mimic a 320i but a 320i cannot always mimic an M3.

This is it exactly.

Go test drive a 320i, 328i, 335i, M3, and decide what suits you. I would even go drive a Camry or Accord for perspective, so you can see what - if anything - a $35k luxury sedan does for you that a $35k non-luxury sedan doesn't (answer may surprise you).

Originally Posted by cbenedic

This is great commentary.

In particular, there's a very important message in his post: even those who have their rationalization of a 335i over an M3 meticulously rehearsed and down perfectly still covet and eventually seek out the M3. It shows you just how impossibly good a value the M3 is - it's very hard to ignore.

[NorCal f80]

An M is not overkill. A Buggati probably is tho.

[ASAP]

Even if you distegard all of the other M improvements such as the chassis, tranny and rear end... the engine alone is worth it. 420 whp stock compared to 270 whp in an n55... it's not even a comparison. Then consider that a good 335i costs 55k and a very decent m3 costs 65k... its a no brainer really. Then think about which one will keep resale value better.

[Stage1]

If you can afford it AND drive it responsibly then definitely go for it. I had an e92 and I have been without it for about a year. I anxiously wait delivery of my f82 (4drs is too much for me)

[Cortexiphan]

Originally Posted by Falafel Combo

And I personally find it amusing that some folks here, who without fail, claim that the M3 "is a completely different car" than a 335i. I'm sorry guys. It's just not. It's better, absolutely! But saying that it is a "completely different car" is really setting yourself up for disappointment. Big time. The M3 is a factory modified 335i. Bigger brakes, stiffer chassis, M modified powertrain with 100+ hp/tq, upgraded track-ready suspension bits and some artificial noise. You can go into the nitty gritty details and point out how there are a lot of M specific parts parts, and there are many. But it does not make it a totally different car. It's not like a bunch of bozos designed the 3 series. The BMW 335i is already an exceptionally capable, precisely engineered and track-tested and designed car ... which is why M uses it as a base for their M3.

IMHO, even though it's not a completely different car, it's a completely different experience, and it feels completely different. I have en E92, and I got 3 series loaners from time to time. Coming back to my car from a 3 series (E90 or F30) has always made me feel like M3 was a completely different car. I know that it looks like 3 series, and it shares a bunch of internal components with it, but there is just enough difference to make you feel like it's completely different.
And I think with F8X, these differences are even more obvious.
In my view, in terms of experience, there is a wider gap between M3 and 3 series than between 3 series and 1 series or X3.

[minn19]

Falafel Combo I get what you are saying, but I think you are selling the differences a little short. It is not as good comparison for me since I came from a very softly suspended 335 xDrive like you have now, but I think they are a completely different experience.

I'm sure it would be different had I came from an E90 M3 or a 328/335 RWD car with an MPerformance suspension installed. But, from my experience they drive completely differently. The only similarities to me is the interior look and functionality and of course the exterior resemblance.

[Carl L]

Originally Posted by minn19

Falafel Combo I get what you are saying, but I think you are selling the differences a little short. It is not as good comparison for me since I came from a very softly suspended 335 xDrive like you have now, but I think they are a completely different experience.

I'm sure it would be different I came from an E90 M3 or a 328/335 RWD car with an MPerformance suspension installed. But, from my experience they drive completely differently. The only similarities to me is the interior look and functionality and of course the exterior resemblance.

I'm not responding to Falafel Combo as everytime I see one of his posts it's inaccurate nonsense (dare I mention the T word...). Because they share the same switchgear they are the same car, eh? What I will say is the F8x series are massively different to their F3x counterparts. It's not "just" the changes noted, the entire chassis (from subframe to track width) is unique and anyone with an ounce of driving ability can feel the difference. He's making it sound like the difference between an M3 and a 335i M Sport is similar to the difference between a 335i and a 335i M Sport when in actuality the changes are drastically more from F3x to F8x.

Think Carrera S to GT3 RS (though obviously the P cars are higher up the performance totem pole) when thinking of how heavily modified/unique the F8x is to the base chassis.

Cortexiphan- you nailed it with your last sentence.

[minn19]

Originally Posted by Carl L

I'm not responding to Falafel Combo as everytime I see one of his posts it's inaccurate nonsense (dare I mention the T word...). Because they share the same switchgear they are the same car, eh? What I will say is the F8x series are massively different to their F3x counterparts. It's not "just" the changes noted, the entire chassis (from subframe to track width) is unique and anyone with an ounce of driving ability can feel the difference. He's making it sound like the difference between an M3 and a 335i M Sport is similar to the difference between a 335i and a 335i M Sport when in actuality the changes are drastically more from F3x to F8x.

Think Carrera S to GT3 RS (though obviously the P cars are higher up the performance totem pole) when thinking of how heavily modified/unique the F8x is to the base chassis.

Cortexiphan- you nailed it with your last sentence.

I agree with you. It is my attempt to get a civilized conversation going about this and hopefully not have it devolve the way it usually does.

If no other reason than to at least give OP a decent answer to his/her question.

[mikeyr0x]

I drive hard and the car begs for me to push it more and more. The power is not overkill for daily driving its just right. Its an enthusiast automobile. If you think its overkill maybe its best for you to check out the f30 335 to see if it fits you better?

[cc3]

1M maybe the answer see attached.

http://mobile.pistonheads.com/news/d...?storyId=31360

[brianeck]

Originally Posted by legowarrior

I've owned several 3 series over the years and enjoyed driving all of them, but never an M. I'm seriously considering getting an F80, but I'm wondering if it's overkill. I basically bike to work during weekdays and drive mostly on the weekends to get around town. I don't track.

For folks who use the F80 for normal street driving, does anyone feel that the car's full potential is simply being wasted and you don't get as much enjoyment out of it? I'm wondering if I'll be better off just getting an F30 instead for day-to-day driving pleasure, taking cost of ownership out of the equation. Thoughts, advice?

I think the car is an absolute blast to drive even just on my daily 12 minute commute. Its fast when you want it, and if you shift nice and short around the 2k rpm range it is quiet, smooth, and very comfortable. I have a 6mt and I find the rev matching feature to be something that I originally hated, but have now grown to love during normal boring (non spirited) driving. The active suspension is really great for the crappy roads here where I live too (more below).

My last two cars were a 650i gran coupe xdrive and a 2011 335ix coupe, both of which had some light mods (exhaust/tune). The 335 was floaty until I got the Dinan stage 2 suspension kit, which made for a world of difference. The 650 was surprisingly planted for a big ass sedan, however to my dismay it was actually WAY less comfortable then the 335 over uneven surfaces/bumps etc. I chalk it up to the 20 inch stock wheels and low profile runflat combo, I wouldn't recommend such a wheel/tire setup to anyone.

Much to my surprise, I have found the m3 in comfort mode to be considerably more comfortable then the 650 was in the same mode. This is also achieved while still feeling incredibly well planted. . . So much more panted that comfort in the f80 feels more comfortable and at least as stiff as my stage 2 Dinan in the 335.

Speed wise, the F80 is definitely the most fun to drive and it is much less predictable then the other two because they were both AWD. They were both REALLY really fast from a dig, and also really easy to launch, but the f80 is still capable of a better launch then both of those cars when everything goes right, and it is certainly a lot more fun to try then just to mash the gas and go

The 335 and the F80 were both manual. I find the transmissions have a very similar feel, and the same "notchiness" that I loved in my 335 is also prevalent in the f80. Under hard acceleration the f80 drivetrain is way more forgiving because some of the "engine bog" is transferred to rear tire chirp when changing gears.

My best overall response after providing these insights is to drive an F80. Since you're going to use it as a daily driver I would strongly suggest the Adaptive Suspension, as this makes a HUGE impact on uneven bumpy roads. Since you don't seem to have to commute far, if you like to drive a manual don't even give the DCT a second glance because the manual transmission is incredible, and when paired with the rev matching it literally takes the work out of driving around town/cruising when you just want to sit back and relax. IMO that is the best of both worlds.

In summary, the F80 is as comfortable as my 335 was, way more planted, and extremely fun to drive even at slower speeds.

I hope that helps

[Doctor///M]

Very good advice in this thread

Do an HPDE and you'll have an excuse to get one :-D

[nicknaz]

Originally Posted by legowarrior

I've owned several 3 series over the years and enjoyed driving all of them, but never an M. I'm seriously considering getting an F80, but I'm wondering if it's overkill. I basically bike to work during weekdays and drive mostly on the weekends to get around town. I don't track.

For folks who use the F80 for normal street driving, does anyone feel that the car's full potential is simply being wasted and you don't get as much enjoyment out of it? I'm wondering if I'll be better off just getting an F30 instead for day-to-day driving pleasure, taking cost of ownership out of the equation. Thoughts, advice?

Hey OP, my wife has an F30 335 and I just ordered an F80 M3 to replace my Z435

I personally think it's totally worth it to get the M3 (and I would have gotten an M3 a LONG time ago instead of non M 3ers and other cars, if $ permitted at that time).

I thought about adding RB turbos and other mods to the 335 or Z435 instead of getting the F80 but I really value some things about the F80 that are $$$ to replicate like widebody to fit very wide tires, solid mounting of rear suspension, electronic LSD, huge brakes, huge cooling system capacity not to mention the "out of the box" reliability of a completely stock car instead of a heavily modified car...

It is such an individual question on what you think is "fast", how you like to drive, what else you want to spend $ on, etc etc etc.

Good luck, hard to go wrong with F30 or F80 (regardless of what the internets might say...)