E70 to F15 suspension options

[JensM]

Hi Forum

My E70 (2012 MSport 30D - around 295HP) has currently done around 50.000 km and plan to change within 2015.
I got a question to the driving characteristics - have read the E70 in general drives more 'sporty' and in particular people don't like the steering of the F15.

My E70 has the adaptive drive which really transform the driving to the better (by far), I also got the adaptive steering.

I understand there are 3 suspension options for the F15: Standard, Adaptive MSport and the DHP suspension.
When comparing to my E70 with adaptive drive, will the F15 with adaptive Msport drive be comparable? Or do I need the DHP to get a similar driving?

Please advise with facts, not like the DPH is better (because it is the most expensive etc). At the moment I am not looking into $, just purely how to get something similar to my E70 which drives fantastic.

Thanks
JensM

[lovec1990]

E70 with adaptive drive is comparable to F15 with DHP, but DHP has now also DPC witch was as far i know not avaiable for E70 so DHP is better.

so if you need suspension similar to adaptive drive in E70 you should get DHP.

[opasha]

The only way you'll get anything remotely similar to E70's tight suspension is DHP. Nothing else will come close. It's a better suspension in terms of comfort when driven in Comfort Mode; it has very tight cornering with no body roll when drive in all modes, but more so in Sport (that's obvious). If you have the means, I advise DHP 100%. Many members who have it love it - there is not one single thing bad about it.

[JensM]

I am aware of that DHP might be the optimal solution, I do however miss some real world comparison between DHP / Adaptive MSport / Adaptive Drive (E70)

There is tons of threads about DHP, but have not managed to find any about Adaptive Msport.

JensM

[opasha]

Originally Posted by JensM

I am aware of that DHP might be the optimal solution, I do however miss some real world comparison between DHP / Adaptive MSport / Adaptive Drive (E70)

There is tons of threads about DHP, but have not managed to find any about Adaptive Msport.

JensM

I don't know what else to tell you. There are plenty of threads discussing both. You just have to search further. Type in "Adaptive M vs DHP F15 X5" into google and you'll get plenty of threads. Here's the chart that we keep referring to:



Trust me when I say this, DHP is MUCH better and worth it. Adaptive M is a good in between compromise - better than stock for what it's worth. If you have a budget, go with Adaptive M (if you are fine with getting an M Line). Stock is not bad, but it's not great. I don't recommend it, especially if you want a 50i.

[Barbja]

Originally Posted by JensM

I am aware of that DHP might be the optimal solution, I do however miss some real world comparison between DHP / Adaptive MSport / Adaptive Drive (E70)

There is tons of threads about DHP, but have not managed to find any about Adaptive Msport.

I owned an E70 35d and an E71 35i both with adaptive drive. My E71 was head and shoulders above my E70. A lot of that was just the general charactics of the car, but some was due to the DPC that was standard on the E71 and not available on the E70.

DHP consists of the anti-roll and DPC (Dynamic Performance Control aka torque vectoring rear differential). In the E70/E71, adaptive drive was anti-roll and (oh, whatever controls the chassis stiffening or vertical dynamics is called -- I can't remember the name). In the F15, you can get the stiffening from the MAdative suspension available with the MSport package (or in a lesser form with DDC). If you want anti-roll, you must get the DHP. Personally, I would never own an X5/6 without anti-roll. I've driven many F15s/E70s/E71s without anti-roll and I disliked every one of them. It is obvious that the car doesn't have it when just taking a corner or driving a curvy road at a moderate speed (like 30+ mph).

In the F15/F16/E70/E71 with AD/DHP, the anti-roll is active at all times. The DPC in the F15/F16/E71 is also active at all times. What is adjustable is the ride stiffening. You get that with the sport button on the E70/E71. In the F15/F16, you only have the option of stiffening up the car in sport mode. In comfort and Eco-pro you have a bouncy car and, as far as I can tell, there is no way to code around it. In sport mode, you have the option of selecting sporting up the chassis (steering/stiffening), the transmission (changing the shift points) or both. The steering on the F15 will only ever come close to approximating the steering feel of the E70 when you've selected chassis/both in sport mode.

The F15/F16 defaults to comfort mode every time you start the car, which means you get crazy steering (from an E70 owner pov). Personally I hate the cr*p out of that. Since I'm used to that button in my E70/E71 being in sport mode all the time for 4y, I'm just not expecting that to happen. Sometimes I forget to put myself into sport mode when I start the car. I have over steered and hit a curb in my F16 more than once when taking a corner (the same one both times: an entry onto an access road of a highway that I've been using for 20y+). I've never ever had that issue with the other 6 other cars that I've owned in that time period (two Volvos, a 5Series, an E53, an E70, and an E71).

In my F16, I have sport mode set to chassis only. I try my best to remember to drive in that mode all the time. If I want to go 'sporty' with my xmission, I move over to sport with the shifter. That comes as close as possible to the behavior of the E70/E71 with the sport button depressed. The biggest difference that you'll notice will be the steering. It will be lighter, but not nearly as noticeable as the difference in comfort/Eco pro. Personally, I like the steering you get with the chassis setting of sport mode on the F15/F16 better than the steering of the E70/E71. Although I really liked the steering of the E70/E71 at speed, it was pretty heavy in parking lots. When I've had shoulder injuries, it was quite painful. The parking lot steering of the F15/F16 in sport/chassis is just light enough to maneuver around easily.

So, to sum it up, you can approximate the feeling of your E70+AD with the sport button depressed in the F15/F16 with DHP in sport mode/chassis. If you get MAdaptive only, then your car will sway because you will not have anti-roll.

If you're ok with the sway (what?) and if you never or hardly ever depressed the sport button, then everything standard should be ok (except the steering of course).

[opasha]

I figure I would post this. I'm not sure if it allows you to pick or not, but I did code this successfully as I do not have M Adaptive nor DHP suspension. It gives us the option to pick Drivetrain and Chassis selection marks when we put the car into Sport mode. I just realized what a good idea it is to save gas like in Comfort mode and have Sport mode steering after reading Barbja's post.

HU_NBT / MACRO_FDS / change popup_only to popup_and_config. Normally, with stock suspension, you get no options in the Sport or Comfort modes, but enabling this code makes the Sport mode have a pop up check box for both Drivetrain and Chassis. Test it out and report back . I'm gonna test it out when I get my car back (maybe in a month, a year, or a decade, jk ).

Also, for anyone wondering, there is a way to have stiffer/heavier steering in Comfort mode, but it's dangerous. You have to HOLD the DSC button to turn it off completely. This is not at all recommended especially for the inexperienced because your chances of fish tailing and losing control become very high.

[JensM]

Originally Posted by opasha

I don't know what else to tell you. There are plenty of threads discussing both. You just have to search further. Type in "Adaptive M vs DHP F15 X5" into google and you'll get plenty of threads. Here's the chart that we keep referring to:



Trust me when I say this, DHP is MUCH better and worth it. Adaptive M is a good in between compromise - better than stock for what it's worth. If you have a budget, go with Adaptive M (if you are fine with getting an M Line). Stock is not bad, but it's not great. I don't recommend it, especially if you want a 50i.

Opasha,
Thanks for the chart - it explains pretty good where the F15 are with the different options compared to competition and E70. The E70 I assume is however only showing the std suspension, would be interesting to see where it will be with the adaptive drive - anybody aware of where this will be in the chart?

I have not started with any configuration, but will more likely go with the Msport design - I can see you mention MSport SUSPENSION is only possible with this design line - I assume the MSport design can also have the DHP?
I am in Europe, so no 50i - will more likely apt for the 40D

JensM

[opasha]

Originally Posted by JensM

Opasha,
Thanks for the chart - it explains pretty good where the F15 are with the different options compared to competition and E70. The E70 I assume is however only showing the std suspension, would be interesting to see where it will be with the adaptive drive - anybody aware of where this will be in the chart?

I have not started with any configuration, but will more likely go with the Msport design - I can see you mention MSport SUSPENSION is only possible with this design line - I assume the MSport design can also have the DHP?
I am in Europe, so no 50i - will more likely apt for the 40D

JensM

No problem, buddy . Yes, M-Sport can be ordered with DHP as well.

[JensM]

Barbja, this is exactly what I was looking after - thanks for posting

Am aware of the difference between E70 & E71 - the later got the torque vectoring - and this is great. So as I read this, an E71 with Adaptive drive will be more or less equal to the F15 with DHP?

As my E70 got Adaptive drive which includes anti-roll, it looks like only way to get the anti-roll is with DHP?. This is a feature I will not miss - on the E70 it is almost like night and day if with and without - I am driving with the 'sport' button active all the time and prefer the tighter steering coming with this as well.

Looks like DHP is it if only way to get the anti-roll - will hate driving in a 'big ship'

Thanks

Originally Posted by Barbja

I owned an E70 35d and an E71 35i both with adaptive drive. My E71 was head and shoulders above my E70. A lot of that was just the general charactics of the car, but some was due to the DPC that was standard on the E71 and not available on the E70.

DHP consists of the anti-roll and DPC (Dynamic Performance Control aka torque vectoring rear differential). In the E70/E71, adaptive drive was anti-roll and (oh, whatever controls the chassis stiffening or vertical dynamics is called -- I can't remember the name). In the F15, you can get the stiffening from the MAdative suspension available with the MSport package (or in a lesser form with DDC). If you want anti-roll, you must get the DHP. Personally, I would never own an X5/6 without anti-roll. I've driven many F15s/E70s/E71s without anti-roll and I disliked every one of them. It is obvious that the car doesn't have it when just taking a corner or driving a curvy road at a moderate speed (like 30+ mph).

In the F15/F16/E70/E71 with AD/DHP, the anti-roll is active at all times. The DPC in the F15/F16/E71 is also active at all times. What is adjustable is the ride stiffening. You get that with the sport button on the E70/E71. In the F15/F16, you only have the option of stiffening up the car in sport mode. In comfort and Eco-pro you have a bouncy car and, as far as I can tell, there is no way to code around it. In sport mode, you have the option of selecting sporting up the chassis (steering/stiffening), the transmission (changing the shift points) or both. The steering on the F15 will only ever come close to approximating the steering feel of the E70 when you've selected chassis/both in sport mode.

The F15/F16 defaults to comfort mode every time you start the car, which means you get crazy steering (from an E70 owner pov). Personally I hate the cr*p out of that. Since I'm used to that button in my E70/E71 being in sport mode all the time for 4y, I'm just not expecting that to happen. Sometimes I forget to put myself into sport mode when I start the car. I have over steered and hit a curb in my F16 more than once when taking a corner (the same one both times: an entry onto an access road of a highway that I've been using for 20y+). I've never ever had that issue with the other 6 other cars that I've owned in that time period (two Volvos, a 5Series, an E53, an E70, and an E71).

In my F16, I have sport mode set to chassis only. I try my best to remember to drive in that mode all the time. If I want to go 'sporty' with my xmission, I move over to sport with the shifter. That comes as close as possible to the behavior of the E70/E71 with the sport button depressed. The biggest difference that you'll notice will be the steering. It will be lighter, but not nearly as noticeable as the difference in comfort/Eco pro. Personally, I like the steering you get with the chassis setting of sport mode on the F15/F16 better than the steering of the E70/E71. Although I really liked the steering of the E70/E71 at speed, it was pretty heavy in parking lots. When I've had shoulder injuries, it was quite painful. The parking lot steering of the F15/F16 in sport/chassis is just light enough to maneuver around easily.

So, to sum it up, you can approximate the feeling of your E70+AD with the sport button depressed in the F15/F16 with DHP in sport mode/chassis. If you get MAdaptive only, then your car will sway because you will not have anti-roll.

If you're ok with the sway (what?) and if you never or hardly ever depressed the sport button, then everything standard should be ok (except the steering of course).

[JensM]

Originally Posted by opasha

No problem, buddy . Yes, M-Sport can be ordered with DHP as well.

Looks like it will be an M-Sport 40D with DHP :-)

[Barbja]

Originally Posted by opasha

I figure I would post this. I'm not sure if it allows you to pick or not, but I did code this successfully as I do not have M Adaptive nor DHP suspension. It gives us the option to pick Drivetrain and Chassis selection marks when we put the car into Sport mode. I just realized what a good idea it is to save gas like in Comfort mode and have Sport mode steering after reading Barbja's post.

HU_NBT / MACRO_FDS / change popup_only to popup_and_config. Normally, with stock suspension, you get no options in the Sport or Comfort modes, but enabling this code makes the Sport mode have a pop up check box for both Drivetrain and Chassis. Test it out and report back . I'm gonna test it out when I get my car back (maybe in a month, a year, or a decade, jk ).

That sounds really cool. I'm planning on talking with my SA to see if he can research how to either make the default mode different (like last selected or something) or see if there is a way to get chassis options in comfort. It's worth a try. As it stands now, I'm dangerous with the car. I don't think he wants that .

Originally Posted by opasha

Also, for anyone wondering, there is a way to have stiffer/heavier steering in Comfort mode, but it's dangerous. You have to HOLD the DSC button to turn it off completely. This is not at all recommended especially for the inexperienced beqcause your chances of fish tailing and losing control become very high.

I can attest that this isn't a terribly good idea. I usually remember to put the car in sport mode just before I plan to do something stupid. Before I was practiced at changing modes, I turned off DSC by accident several times (since it is so very conveniently located justinfront of the up-mode button). This usually resulted in panic . Something stupid is not something that I'd like to do w/o DSC turned on. I still do hit the button by accident sometimes, but my head doesn't explode when I do it.

[apw2607]

Originally Posted by Barbja

I owned an E70 35d and an E71 35i both with adaptive drive. My E71 was head and shoulders above my E70. A lot of that was just the general charactics of the car, but some was due to the DPC that was standard on the E71 and not available on the E70.

DHP consists of the anti-roll and DPC (Dynamic Performance Control aka torque vectoring rear differential). In the E70/E71, adaptive drive was anti-roll and (oh, whatever controls the chassis stiffening or vertical dynamics is called -- I can't remember the name). In the F15, you can get the stiffening from the MAdative suspension available with the MSport package (or in a lesser form with DDC). If you want anti-roll, you must get the DHP. Personally, I would never own an X5/6 without anti-roll. I've driven many F15s/E70s/E71s without anti-roll and I disliked every one of them. It is obvious that the car doesn't have it when just taking a corner or driving a curvy road at a moderate speed (like 30+ mph).

In the F15/F16/E70/E71 with AD/DHP, the anti-roll is active at all times. The DPC in the F15/F16/E71 is also active at all times. What is adjustable is the ride stiffening. You get that with the sport button on the E70/E71. In the F15/F16, you only have the option of stiffening up the car in sport mode. In comfort and Eco-pro you have a bouncy car and, as far as I can tell, there is no way to code around it. In sport mode, you have the option of selecting sporting up the chassis (steering/stiffening), the transmission (changing the shift points) or both. The steering on the F15 will only ever come close to approximating the steering feel of the E70 when you've selected chassis/both in sport mode.

The F15/F16 defaults to comfort mode every time you start the car, which means you get crazy steering (from an E70 owner pov). Personally I hate the cr*p out of that. Since I'm used to that button in my E70/E71 being in sport mode all the time for 4y, I'm just not expecting that to happen. Sometimes I forget to put myself into sport mode when I start the car. I have over steered and hit a curb in my F16 more than once when taking a corner (the same one both times: an entry onto an access road of a highway that I've been using for 20y+). I've never ever had that issue with the other 6 other cars that I've owned in that time period (two Volvos, a 5Series, an E53, an E70, and an E71).

In my F16, I have sport mode set to chassis only. I try my best to remember to drive in that mode all the time. If I want to go 'sporty' with my xmission, I move over to sport with the shifter. That comes as close as possible to the behavior of the E70/E71 with the sport button depressed. The biggest difference that you'll notice will be the steering. It will be lighter, but not nearly as noticeable as the difference in comfort/Eco pro. Personally, I like the steering you get with the chassis setting of sport mode on the F15/F16 better than the steering of the E70/E71. Although I really liked the steering of the E70/E71 at speed, it was pretty heavy in parking lots. When I've had shoulder injuries, it was quite painful. The parking lot steering of the F15/F16 in sport/chassis is just light enough to maneuver around easily.

So, to sum it up, you can approximate the feeling of your E70+AD with the sport button depressed in the F15/F16 with DHP in sport mode/chassis. If you get MAdaptive only, then your car will sway because you will not have anti-roll.

If you're ok with the sway (what?) and if you never or hardly ever depressed the sport button, then everything standard should be ok (except the steering of course).

Apologies to bring up this old thread but I'm again considering getting a F15 and was trying to figure out what to do with suspension.

However the information above is a bit misleading. The thing you have to understand about adaptive drive in the E70 was that the system was always active. Meaning that even when the sport button wasn't pushed, the system was still compensating for body roll. Its just that with sport pressed, then the anti-roll was arguably more aggressive.