impressions and a question

[carraway]

Picked up my M4 yesterday. Black on black, full leather, ceramic brakes, executive package, lighting package. The car is beautiful in person -- inside and out. None of the photos I have seen do it justice.

Drove the car back from Phoenix to Tucson (105 miles) and avoided the highways. The car is very good, but the jury is still out for me on whether it's great. I got the M4 to replace a great car -- an E46 M3 -- and (not surprisingly) there is simply no comparison in terms of torque, cornering, and braking: the M4 is incredible on these metrics. At the same time, my initial impression is that the car lacks soul. Driving it -- on the street anyway -- feels a bit like a video game: it does these incredible things but you're not one with the car, you're just controlling it.

Maybe the car's performance characteristics can only be appreciated on a track, or maybe I just need time to acclimate to all the differences and how they change the driving experience: the size, the low-end torque, the electronic steering. I'm hoping that as I acclimate to the new design and new technology, change will prove to be good -- because the world moves on and you can't sit around pining for the good old days. At the same time, I remember hopping into my E46 for the first time and thinking I was in driving nirvana. I guess you can't always repeat the past.

Which gets me to one question for the 6-speed MT crowd: how much vibration are you getting through the shifter? I can't even keep my hand on the shifter when I'm not shifting because there's so much vibration. It's orders of magnitude higher than my old car. Are people seeing the same thing?

[solstice]

I got taught by my dad not to keep my hand on the shifter between shifts and it stuck so I don't know about that one. The car does feel more synthetic than earlier M3s but I have adapted to most, the steering is still the main obstacle. I really like the car though, so very stout.

[carraway]

Originally Posted by solstice

I got taught by my dad not to keep my hand on the shifter between shifts and it stuck so I don't know about that one. The car does feel more synthetic than earlier M3s but I have adapted to most, the steering is still the main obstacle. I really like the car though, so very stout.

Good advice from your dad; my old (bad) habits die hard.

Yes, the car is stout. I think people can be resistant to change; with a little more time, I'm hoping I will get won over.

[stressdoc]

I agree with your impressions. But the F8x does get more soulful as you acclimate to it. Oh and my shifter does not vibrate much.

[ASAP]

I think people forget to realize the world we lived in when the E46 M3 came out in 2001... Any car that could have even been remotely compared to the E46 was almost universally a joke... coming from any car made the e46 feel like a masterpiece. Here we are 14 years later and an Automotive revolution has essentially taken place where power, handling and all form of extreme are on another level... all manufacturers across the board have stepped up. Those times will never come again simply because the playing field has been so leveled.

[BEMR]

Drive your new car about 3000 miles then come back to your post here, e60 m5 took me about 5000 miles to feel the real fit, each day I learned more and that big v10 beast started to feel very small.

[Fahrvergnügen]

Originally Posted by carraway

Which gets me to one question for the 6-speed MT crowd: how much vibration are you getting through the shifter? I can't even keep my hand on the shifter when I'm not shifting because there's so much vibration. It's orders of magnitude higher than my old car. Are people seeing the same thing?

I have read multiple places that keeping your hand on the shifter while in neutral places unnecessary stress on the transmission. I'm not sure the technicalities of what exactly happens when you keep your hand there but I have trained myself not to hold it just to be on the safe side.

[dkhm3]

Interesting- the m3 I miss the most with the most soul was the E36.

E46 had more body roll to me. Handling was not as telegraphic as the E36. Faster yes, but the E36 chassis was amazing.

I can see how the car seems to be like a video game. I assume you have been feathering it, during break in- I've just started to test the car out past break in and so far it has exceeded my expectations. Hope it does for you too

[dclowd9901]

Originally Posted by carraway

Picked up my M4 yesterday. Black on black, full leather, ceramic brakes, executive package, lighting package. The car is beautiful in person -- inside and out. None of the photos I have seen do it justice.

Drove the car back from Phoenix to Tucson (105 miles) and avoided the highways. The car is very good, but the jury is still out for me on whether it's great. I got the M4 to replace a great car -- an E46 M3 -- and (not surprisingly) there is simply no comparison in terms of torque, cornering, and braking: the M4 is incredible on these metrics. At the same time, my initial impression is that the car lacks soul. Driving it -- on the street anyway -- feels a bit like a video game: it does these incredible things but you're not one with the car, you're just controlling it.

Maybe the car's performance characteristics can only be appreciated on a track, or maybe I just need time to acclimate to all the differences and how they change the driving experience: the size, the low-end torque, the electronic steering. I'm hoping that as I acclimate to the new design and new technology, change will prove to be good -- because the world moves on and you can't sit around pining for the good old days. At the same time, I remember hopping into my E46 for the first time and thinking I was in driving nirvana. I guess you can't always repeat the past.

Which gets me to one question for the 6-speed MT crowd: how much vibration are you getting through the shifter? I can't even keep my hand on the shifter when I'm not shifting because there's so much vibration. It's orders of magnitude higher than my old car. Are people seeing the same thing?

I think I don't really understand what people mean by "soulful." And I have a hard time believing any new car feels like it has soul.

I'm betting that E46 rolling out of the dealership was an impressive car by any measure, but it didn't have soul. How could it? It was an unknown. It hadn't established itself yet as a bookmark in performance automotive history. It takes time for a car to develop soul.

I remember when I was younger, looking at cars like a VW Golf Mk II, the Fox-body 5.0 Mustangs, the AE86 Toyota Corolla and thinking, "We are never going to think these are classics." How could we? They were ugly and very much products of their time. Around those days, the only cars with soul were the old mid-century Buicks, Rolls Royces and Chevys. But now, I'd love to have any of those three cars in my dream garage lineup, and they're indisputably classics with soul.

The soul of a car develops out of the context of its place in an era. Some cars have heritage out of the box, like Porsche, and since they never change the body style, it probably *feels* more soulful, but I just think that's copping out rather than taking a risk and actually creating something. Each M3 feels connected to its era, almost like its a story or a time capsule, and I'm looking forward to hearing what this car says about 2014. My guess is it'll be a story about the death rattle of gasoline-fueled cars and the M3's last intimidating growl before succumbing.

Originally Posted by ChicagoM4

I have read multiple places that keeping your hand on the shifter while in neutral places unnecessary stress on the transmission. I'm not sure the technicalities of what exactly happens when you keep your hand there but I have trained myself not to hold it just to be on the safe side.

The shifter is mechanically linked to your transmission. Any sort of pressure you apply to it is applied directly to the gears of the transmission while it's whirring away. As you can probably imagine, putting unanticipated and unnecessary pressure on a system where precision components are moving at high speeds isn't good for the long term viability of those components.

[fun2drv]

I also replaced my E46 M3 with the new M4. I agree with your comments about the M4 being a different experience, but it is a very good one. The E46 M3 came out back in '01, so there has been a LOT of progress in the automotive industry since then. Expecting to have a "new E46 M3" feeling is not realistic.

I'm at 900 miles on the new car and loving every minute!

[/// M sa]

Man, I love my soulless F80 M3 lol

[Damasconian]

Give it more time. This car definitely has lost the visceral sensation of speed you got with older models but that's due to its top end limits. This car can do so much more than your last BMW, and because of that, it feels more isolated.

I almost went with black - great choice. Just needed some color in my life after 3 black cars in a row. Enjoy it!

[GrussGott]

Know what you mean about the soul - my E93 DEFINITELY has a personality. It's so apparent that just about everyone who rides in it comments "this car feels like it's unhappy at this speed" or "this car feels like it loves these roads" ... there's an alive feeling. (Adding to this is the creaky feel, she's crabby in the morning, etc etc )

Comparatively the F8x feels inert. However once I put a few thousand Ks on it, you start to get a feel for her colder nature ... I think it's because the stuff that would've shown personality in other cars is just so easy for the F8x that it doesn't register.

When you start pushing the car the personality starts coming out ... you'll see

[dave885]

Originally Posted by GrussGott

When you start pushing the car the personality starts coming out ... you'll see

+1

I think that with each successive iteration, the band where "personality" comes out has gone up. I have the E36, E46 and F82 versions and they're very different cars. The M4 almost needs triple digits to come to life, so by it's very nature is probably better suited for the track, and is harder to bring to life on the street. Some of the twisties my E36 loves to romp through puts the M4 to sleep. It's the nature of the beast (so to speak).

[Accel Junky]

No bad vibrations from mine. I also was taught not to rest my hand on the shifter.

I think the car has soul relative to many cars these days but I can see how it would feel in comparison to your last car.

[Insureit1]

Do the exhaust mod and keep the revs up. I have the DCT and put everything into Sport + and manually shift. When done my M3 has plenty of soul. It sounds and drives great. When I want to cruise on the highway like a Honda Accord just put in full auto mode in "Efficiency" and away I go. Best of both worlds.

[Racer20]

Flaws are what gives cars their soul and personality. The way the vibrations and noise from the powertrain or intake transmit to the cabin, the little vibrations and tugs at the steering wheel that tell you what the front tires are doing. 10 years ago, these "flaws" were simply the trade-off that came with getting a high performance, responsive car.

Nowadays, engineers don't necessarily have to make those same trade-offs to get the engine and chassis response. So all the aural and tactile sensations that we're used to aren't there anymore. Part of this is because the base 335i is so good in terms of body structure, NVH, and isolation.

The other factor is that the performance envelope of cars today is *so* high that there's no way to really explore the limits on public roads. There's truth to the old saying that it's more fun to drive a slow car fast than a fast car slow. The E46 M3 was a phenomenal car (So was my Z4 M Coupe). It was raw and visceral, very responsive, just the right size, and very well balanced. But as someone above has mentioned, the auto industry has evolved, and there will likely never be a car that fills that particular niche again.

[Falafel Combo]

Keep in mind that the E46 is the size of a current two series and the F80 is more akin to the previous 5 series in terms of size. I hated my f30 when I first got. It is larger, feels more disconnected than my e90 and yes even feels more artificial. Still don't love it. But it has grown to suit my needs, so I have come to accept that.


I believe a large part of the artificiality you describe comes from the "artificial" torque from the turbos. Not sure if this is your first turbo experience, as it does take some getting used to.

[Hoopumpers]

Some cars absolutely have soul - that hard to describe connected feeling. It's what makes a car really special. I think OPs post is well written and I appreciate objective threads like this without the childish BMW fanboy syndrome we sometimes find on bimmerpost.

It took me some time and a couple of critical mods to fall in love with my M4. For me, putting aftermarket suspension on the car just transformed the whole experience. Steering is still a bit synthetic but has more feel and the car turns in much sharper with a far more confident set. Highly recommended.

Nearly all cars today are teeming with technology and safety (aka weight). Keeps the majority of us much safer and improves the average driver's ability. For the few purists who enjoy a challenge, this diminishes the experience for some. I'm on your side OP, but am still enjoying the M4 quite a lot.

Nothing puts a smile on my face like a spirited drive in the hydraulic steering, naturally aspirated, magnificent MT, lightweight masterpiece taking up another space in my garage. Of course, it's also a pretty lousy commuter, has 2 seats and no roof. Keeping a more raw car around is a great luxury if you have the space to do so.

The M4 as a DD is a great ride...you'll dig it

[ES_TRADER]

Just picked up my 6mt. Noticed a slight vibration from shifter but only when resting hand on it in neutral at a stop light. On din gear and going I don't really notice it or it becomes less

[Hymiet]

Remember when you watched an HD TV for the first time and everything looked like a soap opera? Have you noticed that your eyes have adjusted and you don't notice it any more?

My guess is this will be a similar experience. It's a technology adjustment.