Chris Harris: Why are people beating up on the BMW M3?

[NiceGuyEddie]

     Featured on BIMMERPOST.com

Insightful and balanced perspective on the evolution of the M3 and various critiques of all iterations:

Chris Harris: Why are people beating up on the BMW M3?

>> https://grrc.goodwood.com/road/drive...ing-new-bmw-m3

[Accel Junky]

I like his perspective. Good read.

[gthal]

I like Chris. I respect his opinion and, to be honest, my own views are pretty close to his.

[secretariat]

This is my first M car, but I've driven them. The e39 M5 was my favorite. Every new generation M gets kicked around for one reason or another. Too heavy or turbocharging or too big or whatever the f**k. I love this M3 and that is all that matters. I don't give a shit what C&D, AUTOMOBILE MAG or any other publication has to say about my M3. This car is a keeper and I'm enjoying every mile of it. I learn something new everyday with this machine.

So rock on Chris, and f**k everything else.

[Damasconian]

Thank you for posting this. What I find most interesting is the majority of bad press is coming from the UK, why is that? Anti-US bias I understand but they've never hated on the Germans.

I personally think that Chris Harris and Steve Sutcliff are the best in the business. Steve doesn't love the F8X, but doesn't hate it either. Chris obviously likes it, especially the M3.

I've been following Chris' move from /Drive to his own Youtube channel and that carried on into this Goodwood job and his latest stop at Jalopnik. Ill read/watch whatever he puts out.

[shortseller]

Maybe I’m just wrong? Wouldn’t be the first time. But if I was spending my own money on a fast car for 2015, it would be an M3 saloon. Maybe a red one

Me too!

[ASAP]

I think Jag is trying to move into this market very aggresively and all the brits know that this is a key competitor. Same thing happens in 'merica...

[rmedeir1]

The Br it's just want the M2. Personally I like the M2 but way too compact for me. My M4 is tied for first in what I have owned. I am holding my breath to see what the new clutch is like in the c63s amg that the Br it's are raving over and saying it could be an m3 killer. If it is purely a better all around performer than my m4 and cosmetically looks better in person I might switch. But looking at the the saloon it might be too refined and I am very very happy with my MPE where I don't have v8 envy.

[JoeFromPA]

I don't get the impression that "people are beating up" on the m3 personally. A few publications haven't been enamored with it. More have than haven't. There are viable gripes, but if you don't have a blast driving this car I don't know what you are looking for...

[shortseller]

Bet the new M2 will have tweaked steering feel, and along with its size will fit the bill for a lot of track enthusiasts and reviewers alike.

Let's face it, the M3 and up...are driver road focused first, DDs, and track second.

Love what the M3 does for me, I feel BMW hit my demographic right on the head!

[Carl L]

Very interesting read, thanks for posting. Funny that even Brit magazine Evo, who only placed it 9th in their top 10, gave it 4.5 stars.

http://www.evo.co.uk/carreviews/evoc...and_specs.html

[Sir Loin]

Thanks for posting this. Great read. A very sensible, reasonable perspective. Truly "fair and balanced."

[Powaup]

Originally Posted by secretariat

This is my first M car, but I've driven them. The e39 M5 was my favorite. Every new generation M gets kicked around for one reason or another. Too heavy or turbocharging or too big or whatever the f**k. I love this M3 and that is all that matters. I don't give a shit what C&D, AUTOMOBILE MAG or any other publication has to say about my M3. This car is a keeper and I'm enjoying every mile of it. I learn something new everyday with this machine.

So rock on Chris, and f**k everything else.

+1000

[Accel Junky]

Originally Posted by secretariat

This is my first M car, but I've driven them. The e39 M5 was my favorite. Every new generation M gets kicked around for one reason or another. Too heavy or turbocharging or too big or whatever the f**k. I love this M3 and that is all that matters. I don't give a shit what C&D, AUTOMOBILE MAG or any other publication has to say about my M3. This car is a keeper and I'm enjoying every mile of it. I learn something new everyday with this machine.

So rock on Chris, and f**k everything else.

I just owned an E39 M5 before this. I've owned 35 vehicles so far and I told all of my friends after taking it to the tail of the dragon that it was the best handling car I have owned. Driving my F80 M3 on the Nurburgring reminded me a lot of the M5. I had the same sensation of wonder.

[Hedoniste]

My F80 is my favorite M for now.

[solstice]

I never really yelled with Chris's opinions and I find myself disagreeing ever more at the same rate I'm tiring of his never ending drifting videos.

The E9X is an overall great car and the steering is not lifeless and neither is that of the E46 or E36. In the F8X yes, lifeless.

That said, I agree that much of the criticism of the F8X is unfunded, it's a sharp car. Engine, Chassi, Brakes and overall feel is one sharpness despite of the so-so steering and the engine is really impressive and stout. Good car.

[V1.47fan]

Is this the same Chris Harris who disparaged the Miata with his unfounded criticism ?

Maybe not in the UK but the Miata is probably the most successful car in grassroot racing in its class in North America, I'm not talking about drag racing, I'm talking about Road Racing, Autocross.

The same Chris Harris who had to walk back most of his comments on the Miata?

[V1.47fan]

He thinks the Miata is a terrible roadster, it weights around 2,500lb, 50/50 weight distribution, neutral handling, RWD, amazing momentum car, it has a traditional power steering with amazing feedback.

How many car manufacturers still make roadsters that weigh less than 2,500lb( that's a 1,000lb less than the current Z4)?

So the same hack who trashed the Miata doesnt understand why some are beating up on the M3.

[FogCityM3]

Harris is basically saying that with this gen, a consensus hasn't been reached on the verdict of the new car and he is clearly in the camp of two thumbs up and the guy knows his stuff and his opinions/observations are highly valued. It's not just that a consensus hasn't been reached in the UK auto press, it's also C&D and to a lesser extent, R&T and at least two race drivers, whereas in prior gens, the M3 was beyond reproach and consensus had clearly emerged to the tune of 80%-90% positive reviews from all sources and winning nearly every comparo even against much faster cars (e.g., 911 C2s, 911 TT, GTR, Stingray in head to heads).

Ferrari recently stated that the peak of creating cars to simply "go faster" is close to being reached and that differentiation of nice to have vs. want to have will be more on intangibles such as driver feel, sensory experience, and as the M division puts it, the "seat of the pants" feeling that you get when you drive an M car. BMW just poached a top engineer from Ferrari (and an exec from Audi) rather than promoting from within, maybe there is some validation to that thesis and Chris Harris is correctly observing that there is a change in perception occurring that is not resulting in (nearly) unanimous verdicts?

[Boss330]

Originally Posted by FogCityM3

Harris is basically saying that with this gen, a consensus hasn't been reached on the verdict of the new car and he is clearly in the camp of two thumbs up and the guy knows his stuff and his opinions/observations are highly valued. It's not just that a consensus hasn't been reached in the UK auto press, it's also C&D and to a lesser extent, R&T and at least two race drivers, whereas in prior gens, the M3 was beyond reproach and consensus had clearly emerged to the tune of 80%-90% positive reviews from all sources and winning nearly every comparo even against much faster cars (e.g., 911 C2s, 911 TT, GTR, Stingray in head to heads).

Ferrari recently stated that the peak of creating cars to simply "go faster" is close to being reached and that differentiation of nice to have vs. want to have will be more on intangibles such as driver feel, sensory experience, and as the M division puts it, the "seat of the pants" feeling that you get when you drive an M car. BMW just poached a top engineer from Ferrari (and an exec from Audi) rather than promoting from within, maybe there is some validation to that thesis and Chris Harris is correctly observing that there is a change in perception occurring that is not resulting in (nearly) unanimous verdicts?

That's not entirely how I read the article.

Harris says that whats happening with the F8x has happened with EVERY generation after the E30...

EVO said the E46 M3 was a better M3 than the E9x M3 in their first comparison test of the two. And Harris even says that he defended the E9x, but see now that he perhaps was wrong there...

AFAIK, Harris says that this has always taken place for the M3 but is based on subjective and not objective test criterias. So this is not a first for the F8x.

[ES_TRADER]

Who gives a shit. Just buy it and drive the piss out of it or buy something else and drive the piss out of that. Then dump it when you're bored, rinse and repeat

[tisme]

Originally Posted by shortseller

Maybe I’m just wrong? Wouldn’t be the first time. But if I was spending my own money on a fast car for 2015, it would be an M3 saloon. Maybe a red one

Me too!

That's exactly what I did, and no regrets.