M4 vs. FBO 335i

[Black Gold]

Originally Posted by ASAP

way worse

then the 6mt m3 driver cant drive, because every professional test so far has had an almost identical trap speed and 0-100 time between the DCT and manual.

if anything the DCT is faster by a nose

there is a thread with this data compiled in the main forum

[Longboarder]

Thx for sharing I was looking forward to this since the stock dyno's were posted. I figured this would be a dead even race from the numbers but WOW, this wasn't close at all

[fusionchicken]

Originally Posted by KennyPowers

then the 6mt m3 driver cant drive, because every professional test so far has had an almost identical trap speed and 0-100 time between the DCT and manual.

if anything the DCT is faster by a nose

there is a thread with this data compiled in the main forum

+1

Also a 6mt owner on the track reported staying with / slightly pulling DCT F8x M cars on the straight section, granted the options/weight of the cars were unknown, either way a 6MT shouldn't be significantly slower if the driver can drive worth crap

And thanks for posting the video, not surprising at all. The same has always been true - the M3/4 has a factory warranty, stays relatively close (within 2 car lengths) with an FBO 335 on E85, can most likely run laps around said 335i when bends are involved, and not have to worry about things breaking (as much as the 335 anyways lawl)

I'm also guessing that a dig run would have put the M4 right next to the 335i till 120mph+ given it's much more efficiently set up for launching, not to mention it's sporting a decent launch control system IIRC

[ASAP]

Originally Posted by KennyPowers

then the 6mt m3 driver cant drive, because every professional test so far has had an almost identical trap speed and 0-100 time between the DCT and manual.

if anything the DCT is faster by a nose

there is a thread with this data compiled in the main forum

Ok, clearly u havent seen enough drag races of identical cars with different transmissions. You would need a champion shifter to keep up. The stick and auto 335s were always far apart.

[ASAP]

Simply put the M3 is making probably around 30 whp less and that is why it gets spanked. The odd part is that if the comparable numbers r true, it seems as if the DCT / higher redline / broader power curve arent doing anything for it.

[Black Gold]

Originally Posted by ASAP

Ok, clearly u havent seen enough drag races of identical cars with different transmissions. You would need a champion shifter to keep up. The stick and auto 335s were always far apart.

im not sure how any of that is relevant

the m4 6mt and dct were tested by the same agency, auto sport. they had identical 0-160 km/hr times at 8.8 seconds. therefore, there is not much if any, performance difference between the two in the hands of a capable driver. specifically, from a roll where launching is out of the equation.

what the n54 did is 100% irrelevant.

link

http://f80.bimmerpost.com/forums/sho....php?t=1009851

[ASAP]

Originally Posted by KennyPowers

im not sure how any of that is relevant

the m4 6mt and dct were tested by the same agency, auto sport. they had identical 0-160 km/hr times at 8.8 seconds. therefore, there is not much if any, performance difference between the two in the hands of a capable driver. specifically, from a roll where launching is out of the equation.

what the n54 did is 100% irrelevant.

link

http://f80.bimmerpost.com/forums/sho....php?t=1009851

Ok well I hope ur a pro driver then for consistencies sake. In the real world, I saw this maybe once, maybe twice. I would like swamp and bradleyland to jump in here and tell us about dyno curves, power curves and their reasoning as to why peak power is not an important factor. lol

[Black Gold]

Originally Posted by ASAP

Ok well I hope ur a pro driver then for consistencies sake. In the real world, I saw this maybe once, maybe twice. I would like swamp and bradleyland to jump in here and tell us about dyno curves, power curves and their reasoning as to why peak power is not an important factor. lol

jeez man, seems like you completely missed the point.

first of all, how did peak / average power come up? that wasn't mentioned in any post of mine at all so...?

second of all, I don't think its that hard to hit two clean shifts (all you would need on a 40-120ish roll).

and finally, I said that the performance between the two transmissions is close, and any result that ISNT close is the result of a poor 6mt driver. still not sure how what I said isn't correct. I have documented those results in a prior post.

finally, the nearly identical results of 6mt vs DCT are specific to THIS car. not the e9x, not the 335, not any other car. I am not familiar with those results, and have not looked into them. they could be faster / slower, I have no idea. The context we are speaking about in this thread is f8x dct vs manual, nothing else.

[ASAP]

Originally Posted by KennyPowers

jeez man, seems like you completely missed the point.

first of all, how did peak / average power come up? that wasn't mentioned in any post of mine at all so...?

second of all, I don't think its that hard to hit two clean shifts (all you would need on a 40-120ish roll).

and finally, I said that the performance between the two transmissions is close, and any result that ISNT close is the result of a poor 6mt driver. still not sure how what I said isn't correct. I have documented those results in a prior post.

finally, the nearly identical results of 6mt vs DCT are specific to THIS car. not the e9x, not the 335, not any other car. I am not familiar with those results, and have not looked into them. they could be faster / slower, I have no idea. The context we are speaking about in this thread is f8x dct vs manual, nothing else.

I agree but you say poor driver... I say a great driver would be needed to match the dct not just anybody. I don't disagree with you... it's all about consistency. The other comments were a play on another thread and have nothing to do w you.

What I am trying to setup is a pump 93 RB 335i vs a stock M4 run. That to me sounds the fairest... albeit still questionable depending on the boost it chooses to run.

[fusionchicken]

DCT will always be more consistent, period

But 6mt with less drivetrain loss and less curb weight (not as much of a difference maker) evens the playing field IMO. This is evident by 6MT cars having identical acceleration figures despite losing more time (and boost, I believe) between shifts. Notice this isn't saying that 6MT cars will be as consistent, i.e. out of 10 runs the DCT will produce a much more consistent acceleration time, and on the street during an impromptu run consistency can greatly change the outcome

[Karmic Man]

There is no information at all about the M4's Mitsu turbo, flow rate..etc

Until we have that it's all guess work on its full potential.

We don't even know what's the fuel pump flow rate on the M4 yet.

[Karmic Man]

In my 10 years+ experience in playing with turbo cars, on a turbocharged engine, how hard it goes in the top end is primarily depending on the size of the turbo (in a rough term)...

[dx1541]

Originally Posted by ASAP

Ok, clearly u havent seen enough drag races of identical cars with different transmissions. You would need a champion shifter to keep up. The stick and auto 335s were always far apart.

Agreed, a similar 335i with DCT would pull even more given the lightning speed of the shifts n( for people who can't drive a manual properly! LOL! ) ... people gotta understand the days of sticks being the best is long gone with the introduction of dual clutch transmissions today...

[BQTuning]

That M4 did exceptionally well for stock trim. What helped it was the DCT. Now lets see the M4 DCT vs a 335is DCT ?

I have driven the M3/M4 platform , which has the same DCT in the M5/M6, is on the same level with the N54/S65 DCT.

@TurboSid and I maybe runing as soon as things break in on his side. He has an M4 now

[brianeck]

Originally Posted by dx1541

Agreed, a similar 335i with DCT would pull even more given the lightning speed of the shifts n( for people who can't drive a manual properly! LOL! ) ... people gotta understand the days of sticks being the best is long gone with the introduction of dual clutch transmissions today...

*Manual is still the best way to drive. DCT is the best way of being driven.

[M5Rlz]

Originally Posted by BuraQ

That M4 did exceptionally well for stock trim. What helped it was the DCT. Now lets see the M4 DCT vs a 335is DCT ?

I have driven the M3/M4 platform , which has the same DCT in the M5/M6, is on the same level with the N54/S65 DCT.

@TurboSid and I maybe runing as soon as things break in on his side. He has an M4 now

I heard it was not the same DCT... And that there were some difference in internals granted I can't find anything official from BMW but they were priced rather differently (I think 1200 vs. 2k+ option)

[ASAP]

Originally Posted by BuraQ

That M4 did exceptionally well for stock trim. What helped it was the DCT. Now lets see the M4 DCT vs a 335is DCT ?

I have driven the M3/M4 platform , which has the same DCT in the M5/M6, is on the same level with the N54/S65 DCT.

@TurboSid and I maybe runing as soon as things break in on his side. He has an M4 now

Just as an FYI... i don't know any n54 DCT's that trap higher or have a top end advantage over the autos. The n54 dct's are geared superbly down low but I don't expect anything different to happen. ET's yes... top end not really.

[consolidated]

Dammit, I should trade in my F80 M3 for a FBO 335i.

[e92livin]

Not impressed at all with the M4. I have seen FBO 335s w/ meth vs a DCT E9x M3 with Dinan software which doesn't add much and the race looked very similar to this one.

[gthal]

Originally Posted by e92livin

Not impressed at all with the M4. I have seen FBO 335s w/ meth vs a DCT E9x M3 with Dinan software which doesn't add much and the race looked very similar to this one.

Because we ALL know that YouTube videos are the definitive guide

Drive the M4 and then an e9x M3 and I can pretty much assure you they are in completely different leagues when it comes to speed... notwithstanding this YouTube evidence. 12s and trapping 120mph is no laughing matter. But hey, draw any conclusions you like

[ASAP]

Originally Posted by gthal

Because we ALL know that YouTube videos are the definitive guide

Drive the M4 and then an e9x M3 and I can pretty much assure you they are in completely different leagues when it comes to speed... notwithstanding this YouTube evidence. 12s and trapping 120mph is no laughing matter. But hey, draw any conclusions you like

lol that 335 isnt running right

[consolidated]

Originally Posted by gthal

Because we ALL know that YouTube videos are the definitive guide

Drive the M4 and then an e9x M3 and I can pretty much assure you they are in completely different leagues when it comes to speed... notwithstanding this YouTube evidence. 12s and trapping 120mph is no laughing matter. But hey, draw any conclusions you like

^^ True, and hard to accept. Coming from a E90 M3 with ESS and full Akra the F80 is head and shoulders above the older car. Just is.