[Goneinsixtyseconds]

Originally Posted by Herr August Schmidhuber

Indeed. My brother lives in Scotland and reports that circa 20% of Scots are normal intelligent people, the rest are thick.

Like Manchester then, but with less thick people.......

[Marksw76]

Originally Posted by JD6

The issue is Theresa May won't pursue that option as it would bring her government down. I agree that this should be bigger than party politics, but whatever motivates people like her to go into politics also seems to motivate them to cling to power at any price.

The price in this instance being £1bn if I recall correctly.

Seriously, do these people not have any decent advisers? Surely someone should have reminded her last year (maybe her husband, if nobody else) that a) she had no clear plan for Brexit (or any other policies for that matter) and b) appears to have zero people skills, therefore going to the polls at that particular time was not the brightest idea?

This extended shit show with the DUP is 100% her own making.

[Harryg]

Originally Posted by Goneinsixtyseconds

We make all these in depth conversations too complicated. The competency levels of our politicians is almost irrelevant. The EU cannot give us a good deal, or everyone else will start voting out and leave as well.

They won't let that happen. Even Maggie would have been put back in her box.

It doesn't matter what pressure is put on by big European manufacturers (which isn't really happening anyway) the EU will not commit suicide for our benefit.

And lying politicians shouldn't be blamed, you didn't need hindsight, it was bloody obvious right from when the idea of leaving was first discussed. Out has to mean out, not out, but with a great deal to help us stay in a bit.

Look what the EU done to Greece practically bankrupt the country then said they want more reforms for more money, they stood no chance but we do stand a chance and their threats will not work as much as it did with Greece.

May is now carping on about staying in longer to get things sorted they have had 2 years to do this I can see her going to the gallows shortly people have no confidence and her party are a bunch of back stabbers labour are a joke albeit not a very good one then the Ireland issue shes got no chance, if we are going to leave put some one in who has the backbone to give ultimatums and not backpeddle when the going gets tough.

[Goneinsixtyseconds]

Originally Posted by Harryg

Look what the EU done to Greece practically bankrupt the country then said they want more reforms for more money, they stood no chance but we do stand a chance and their threats will not work as much as it did with Greece.

May is now carping on about staying in longer to get things sorted they have had 2 years to do this I can see her going to the gallows shortly people have no confidence and her party are a bunch of back stabbers labour are a joke albeit not a very good one then the Ireland issue shes got no chance, if we are going to leave put some one in who has the backbone to give ultimatums and not backpeddle when the going gets tough.

I still don't get it. What ultimatums? What do you think will convince them to give us a good deal, but then risks the whole European Union as other countries line up to leave? And where are these amazing strong politicians that are waiting in the wings to save us? I suspect if they existed, they'd already be doing it. If they've not been strong enough to get to the top of the pile in the Conservative party, what hope have they got with this!

Even a strong politician telling them can't have their money won't be enough to get them to capitulate, it'd be suicide.

Plus, forgive me if I'm being thick, but if we agree to pay them billions and billions, then remain in a customs union, which will come with a high degree of regulation and bureaucracy, what are the amazing benefits of us leaving again?

[Dyl]

Originally Posted by Harryg

Look what the EU done to Greece practically bankrupt the country then said they want more reforms for more money

How did the E.U. cause the financial crisis in Greece Harryg?

[Goneinsixtyseconds]

Originally Posted by Herr August Schmidhuber

Interesting that you think counties will line up to leave. Your views are identical to mine. The eu is a shitty club that countries want to leave.

Not necessarily, but quite a lot think it needs major reform. If they could still retain some of the beneficial parts when leaving, I'm sure a few more would.

Which is why we'll never get a good deal.

Everyone on here must have some experience of negotiating, whether in work, outside or even with your children (hardest to convince). It's very easy to see we are in a piss poor position and it doesn't matter one bit who our leader is or who our negotiator is, we aren't going to strong arm anyone into some fantastic deal.

[Goneinsixtyseconds]

Needless to say I'm not confident of the outcome and the next few months of negotiations.

I've just booked a house in France for next August. I need to pay 25% now and 75% in June. I'm not taking any more chances with the exchange rate, I'm paying it all now!

[Craig-SM]

Originally Posted by Dyl

How did the E.U. cause the financial crisis in Greece Harryg?

The EU didn’t cause Greece’s financial problems, they already had them before they joined the union. The EU weren’t bothered so long as they could get expand further they could turn a blind eye to it and allow it to fester further until the financial crisis. Then along with all the other Mediterranean basket cases they had to be brought in line.
Now the talk is of a two tier EU, a union within a union for those that can fall in line and adapt quickly and those that can’t.

[Dyl]

Originally Posted by Herr August Schmidhuber

The eu, or rather the Germans, imposed crippling austerity on the Greeks. It didn't cause the financial crisis.

Oh I thought the E.U. bailed them out of the mess of self creation on the condition that they sorted their act out.

But now it has been explained correctly I can understand how the people helping them are the bad guys.

[Craig-SM]

All the EU did was protect its currency and let Greece suffer. Despite all the crap talk of them now recovered they’re years away from it. One of our neighbours daughter married a Greek restaurant owner. They come over regular and go on a shopping spree for food to ship back to Greece as it’s cheaper to but here even with the shipping fees.
Interesting when you read about Greece’s situation without the EU spin on it
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...=.30c822988fbe

[Goneinsixtyseconds]

Originally Posted by Herr August Schmidhuber

So it's a shitty club, that needs reforming, and given half a chance many countries would leave. I fully concur.

I never disagreed, even in previous discussions last year.

The main reason I voted remain was because I didn't think we'd have the skills or negotiating position to do a very good job of getting out.

Now we seem to be negotiating the best way to stay in, whilst still saying we're leaving. It's all beyond me now, I turn off the news if it's discussed, no one has a fucking clue what they're trying to achieve.

[Wills2]

Originally Posted by Brigand

Why not just let Ireland become one country again?

Because the ROI can't afford it (look how much they get under Barnett) and how easily May gave them another billion to keep the DUP on side and that's before you get into the obvious issues.

[Harryg]

Originally Posted by Dyl

How did the E.U. cause the financial crisis in Greece Harryg?

As has been stated they didn't cause the crisis but they exuberated through crippling debt. they practically bankrupt the country as Greece could not pay the demands expected of them and went into bigger debt to keep the country solvent they were going to have a referendum but that didn't materialise and if they didn't stick by the austerity terms the country would have been bankrupt

[Wills2]

Originally Posted by ossi1

No one is suggesting the political make up of those countries has anything to do with NI / ROI... its simply an example of how trade / commerce is being controlled between these countries and the EU.

I have plenty of experience of NI and the troubles in a previous life btw so am aware of the issues.

That aside there will have to be something, somewhere and its not within the bounds of possibility that both sides (the UK and the ROI) will happily agree to it without the posturing of the EU.

Even the NI affairs committee accept there will have to be controls in relation to goods, they are however extremely sensitive over checks on the movement of people as we all are.

Its an interesting concept but to simply say 'there will be no border' might be pushing it slightly.

But you cannot divorce the political situation from trade and commerce over there, that's the point you don't seem to understand, hence my reply.

Whatever the solution is it will not include the word "border" hence there will be no "border" as to create one will be impossible (as previously mentioned) and lead to a lot trouble.

[Wills2]

Originally Posted by Herr August Schmidhuber

Of course there is already a border between NI and RofI.

A border for VAT.
A border for currency.
A border for duty.

There are different tariffs and of course a different currency just like when they had the punt but they happily excepted sterling in the ROI when I was working there so that's never been an issue. They manage all of that today without a physical border BTW.

Honestly it's not that difficult to understand, as the NI politician said we manage that today just fine so there is no need for a border in the traditional sense.

The word border holds the whole process back they need to drop that word and perhaps a solution can be found.

[Goneinsixtyseconds]

Originally Posted by Herr August Schmidhuber

It's all perfectly clear to me.

But then I'm mad

You know what our politicians are trying to achieve!? Please share.

[Goneinsixtyseconds]

Originally Posted by Herr August Schmidhuber

You'd need to be mad to understand

I meant with the politicians, not me.

[JD6]

Originally Posted by Goneinsixtyseconds

You know what our politicians are trying to achieve!? Please share.

I assume (or at least hope) that the last few weeks have been an exercise in expectation management. Portray such a bleak outcome which suits absolutely no one, that when the actual deal appears on the table at the eleventh hour, it is welcomed with open arms, despite being a steaming heap of crap...

[Goneinsixtyseconds]

Originally Posted by JD6

I assume (or at least hope) that the last few weeks have been an exercise in expectation management. Portray such a bleak outcome which suits absolutely no one, that when the actual deal appears on the table at the eleventh hour, it is welcomed with open arms, despite being a steaming heap of crap...

If only.....

I seriously doubt that there's a a level of competency hiding behind the incompetence that is out front.

[Harryg]

Originally Posted by JD6

I assume (or at least hope) that the last few weeks have been an exercise in expectation management. Portray such a bleak outcome which suits absolutely no one, that when the actual deal appears on the table at the eleventh hour, it is welcomed with open arms, despite being a steaming heap of crap...

The whole negotiation has been crap the ROI only adding to the issues it is all about the UK going in with the begging bowl only to be demoralised time after time with the EU demands. Ok its not easy but a clear path has not been shown by either side which is ridiculous by people in these positions demanding this then more demands on that.


Not once that I know have the EU come up with a package and say this is what you are going to get then negotiate from there they wait until the UK comes up with something then automatically reject it. Why cant they come up with a package then negotiate from there.

Like the poster says they throw all the doom and gloom forward then at the last minute its solved and looks good to them then the majority can repent at leisure but the government put it over as a good deal Totally shambolic but that's government.

[Dyl]

Originally Posted by Harryg

TNot once that I know have the EU come up with a package and say this is what you are going to get then negotiate from there they wait until the UK comes up with something then automatically reject it. Why cant they come up with a package then negotiate from there.

Like that time I quite the gym and then I demanded they to come up with a solution to me being allowed in for free.

[TodmordenLad]

Originally Posted by Goneinsixtyseconds

I never disagreed, even in previous discussions last year.

The main reason I voted remain was because I didn't think we'd have the skills or negotiating position to do a very good job of getting out.

Now we seem to be negotiating the best way to stay in, whilst still saying we're leaving. It's all beyond me now, I turn off the news if it's discussed, no one has a fucking clue what they're trying to achieve.

The Prime Minister of Luxembourg summed up the idiocy of Brexit best for me: "They were in with a load of opt-outs. Now they are out, and want a load of opt-ins."