UPDATE: S65 with a custom hole in block

[Scrippy]

Please don't shoot.........can someone define "detonation"?

[WhatsADSM]

Wow!

Manual or automatic?

[whats77inaname]

Originally Posted by Scrippy

Please don't shoot.........can someone define "detonation"?

http://www.enginelogics.com/engine-detonation/

[///M Power-Belgium]

OP feel really sorry about your luck .
But I'm sure before the rod was making a black hole ...rattle noises were ignored or not heard !
And like almost all blown S65's the bearings were the basic problem of this blown S65 !
And personal I think it was "not" the smartest move to run the engine after the failure to move it into the shop !

But think this case is in experienced hands ? Would love to know more...
About the video...Is it possible to post the video ?
Thanks in advance...

Edit :
Can you please add here in the "Blown motors, Bearing failure S65 Registry." => http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=786615

[aussiem3]

This is very interesting. Bearing failures. I think the culprit here is the oil pump and the pressure.

My experience to date has been, I've been running TWS 10w-60 for the last seven years ownership since new, and every morning when I start up, the car was extremely rough, and even revving was hard doesn't matter how many rpm it was, until the oil warmed up with the rest of the components.

But since swapping to M1 0w-40, I have not experience this at all, and despite the rev limited set to 4k rpm for cold start, the engine revs freely, and have no issues (?) what I had with when using 10w-60.

So I think, the oil pump was struggling with the cold thickness of the oil, and then squeezing that thickness through the hair-width edge was a struggle. Hence, more mettle-to-mettle contact and the roughness I was feeling. M1 0w-40 has I believe eliminated that. Time will tell when it come to BS analysis. I am planning to do 6k km on this M1, and another 6k km again just so that the engine is free of all the old TWS 10w-60.

I think we need to factor is the oil pump to and the effectiveness of it with the thicker oil. Wasn't the oil pump redesigned from the S85 to be more efficient or something like that?

[SteveInfante]

Very good points. I patiently await your results with the 0-40.

[///M Power-Belgium]

Originally Posted by Stevedotmil

Very good points. I patiently await your results with the 0-40.

It's a good oil , but saw several that blew also with M1 0W40 .
It's not really about the oil/spec...It's all about the design flaw of our bearings .
Better is.... no matter what oil is used ...is oil change at max 5K .
Personal I keep it with Castrol/Edge .

[regular guy]

Originally Posted by Ging

update

Rod big end blue again. I usually attribute that to clearance, which leads to bearing wear, which leads to bearing failure, which leads to excessive heat, which leads to boom!

Was the rod or cap welded to the crank? I'm still trying to see if I can use that crank, and the picture of the journal has me a bit worried because of what looks like the scratches on it, and the blue rod big end that went along with it.

[Ging]

no the rod moved freely on the crank after I unjammed it from the rod next to it. the force of what happened stretched the rod bolts and the rod cap fracture split joint was clearly visible witch it shouldn't be. the crank journal looks great no marks on it (bad phone photos). most of the wear and little bit of blue from running it after the hole was made. i know not the best idea but DCT car and limited man power to get it up the hill to the shop and what not.

Originally Posted by regular guy

Rod big end blue again. I usually attribute that to clearance, which leads to bearing wear, which leads to bearing failure, which leads to excessive heat, which leads to boom!

Was the rod or cap welded to the crank? I'm still trying to see if I can use that crank, and the picture of the journal has me a bit worried because of what looks like the scratches on it, and the blue rod big end that went along with it.

[Ging]

Arrow rods

Originally Posted by schnell325

Poor car

Very glad she's in very capable hands.

[kawasaki00]

Originally Posted by Scrippy

Please don't shoot.........can someone define "detonation"?

Technical answer, when more than 10-15% of firing cycles result in peak cylinder pressure before the crankshaft reaches 4 degrees ATDC in any given timed period.

[regular guy]

Originally Posted by Ging

no the rod moved freely on the crank after I unjammed it from the rod next to it. the force of what happened stretched the rod bolts and the rod cap fracture split joint was clearly visible witch it shouldn't be. the crank journal looks great no marks on it (bad phone photos). most of the wear and little bit of blue from running it after the hole was made. i know not the best idea but DCT car and limited man power to get it up the hill to the shop and what not.

OK, once you get the whole thing out, give it a good look. PM me if you think it's usable and tell me what you think it's worth. Ironically, I just sold my personal OE crank...now I need one for a spare motor I just picked up.

[schnell325]

Originally Posted by Ging

Arrow rods

Not Carillo?!

[aussiem3]

Originally Posted by ///M Power-Belgium

It's a good oil , but saw several that blew also with M1 0W40 .
It's not really about the oil/spec...It's all about the design flaw of our bearings .
Better is.... no matter what oil is used ...is oil change at max 5K .
Personal I keep it with Castrol/Edge .

With all due respect Phil, I think we need to factor in the whole system in the RB failure. It cannot be looked at in isolation. I know what you're saying and I agreed with you in a prior post.

But the more I think of it, and how the engine has behave, and the state of affairs now with M1 0w-40, I feel there is more to this RB failure than just the clearance.

When you drive the car when it's cold, it's like day and night between the M1 and TWS. I think we do a lot of driving until the engine reaches the optimum temperature, and for me personally, M1 makes sense because I do low of city running and low rpm. Yes, On the weekend I drive the car very aggressively, but that's only 1-2% of the driving. My fuel consumption has dropped by more than a litre for 100/L.

As I said, until I get the BS result when I do he next oil change, I am happy. As we agreed in the past, doesn't matter what oil we use, if the RB destined for failure, we cannot stop it.

To be honest, I am happy and very comfortable with my choice to go with M1.

Phil, as you know, this is not a personal thing against your theory, but another thing that I feel should be factored in.

[///M Power-Belgium]

Originally Posted by aussiem3

With all due respect Phil, I think we need to factor in the whole system in the RB failure. It cannot be looked at in isolation. I know what you're saying and I agreed with you in a prior post.

But the more I think of it, and how the engine has behave, and the state of affairs now with M1 0w-40, I feel there is more to this RB failure than just the clearance.

When you drive the car when it's cold, it's like day and night between the M1 and TWS. I think we do a lot of driving until the engine reaches the optimum temperature, and for me personally, M1 makes sense because I do low of city running and low rpm. Yes, On the weekend I drive the car very aggressively, but that's only 1-2% of the driving. My fuel consumption has dropped by more than a litre for 100/L.

As I said, until I get the BS result when I do he next oil change, I am happy. As we agreed in the past, doesn't matter what oil we use, if the RB destined for failure, we cannot stop it.

To be honest, I am happy and very comfortable with my choice to go with M1.

Phil, as you know, this is not a personal thing against your theory, but another thing that I feel should be factored in.

I know my friend .
It's night and day difference between M1 and TWS because the M1 is a thinner oil and affects that the S65 revs more freely and so consumes less and is warmed up quicker .

If the M1 is better ...why we see still blown S65's with M1 ? Thought I saw a couple of Malek's S65's that blew with M1 (stock S65's)
And they looked really bad , but personal I'm more concernd about the lubrication film of the oil when bearing clearance /tolerance is nok by design flaw .
And when talking about the lubrication film I'm feeling better with TWS , because I felt the difference between both oils between my fingers .
And the TWS felt a lot more sticky .

What I noticed too is that the M1 is showing higher metal ppm wear in BS oil reports what makes me think that M1 is not the perfect oil for high rev + 8K rpm engines .
But if you feel good with M1 you really should keep running it with M1.
But who knows my friend ?

It's more like I said before my friend ...The problem is "NOT" the oil/brand/spec !
The problem is ... " Needless to repeat " But the cause is... "Made In Germany"

[aussiem3]

Originally Posted by ///M Power-Belgium

I know my friend .
It's night and day difference between M1 and TWS because the M1 is a thinner oil and affects that the S65 revs more freely and so consumes less and is warmed up quicker .

If the M1 is better ...why we see still blown S65's with M1 ? Thought I saw a couple of Malek's S65's that blew with M1 (stock S65's)
And they looked really bad , but personal I'm more concernd about the lubrication film of the oil when bearing clearance /tolerance is nok by design flaw .
And when talking about the lubrication film I'm feeling better with TWS , because I felt the difference between both oils between my fingers .
And the TWS felt a lot more sticky .

What I noticed too is that the M1 is showing higher metal ppm wear in BS oil reports what makes me think that M1 is not the perfect oil for high rev + 8K rpm engines .
But if you feel good with M1 you really should keep running it with M1.
But who knows my friend ?

It's more like I said before my friend ...The problem is "NOT" the oil/brand/spec !
The problem is ... " Needless to repeat " But the cause is... "Made In Germany"

We will never have an answer to this.

[///M Power-Belgium]

Originally Posted by aussiem3

We will never have an answer to this.

Exactly !
In numbers ..

50/50 % = Winners/Losers .

1- Winners = Bearings that hold out .
2- Losers = Are f@cked up by BMW from day 1 and from when the S65 was built in the German factory . (A matter of time)

Hope we have "# 1".

[aussiem3]

Originally Posted by ///M Power-Belgium

Exactly !
In numbers ..

50/50 % = Winners/Losers .

1- Winners = Bearings that hold out .
2- Losers = Are f@cked up by BMW from day 1 and from when the S65 was built in the German factory . (A matter of time)

Hope we have "# 1".

At least we are in a better place compared to some unfortunate souls.

[///M Power-Belgium]

Originally Posted by aussiem3

At least we are in a better place compared to some unfortunate souls.

For "the moment"...Yes .
I really hope that we don't need to post up pics of our bearings !
BTW.....Some even twice ! Imagine ....

[Shredicus]

Is there a company selling kits for these custom holes, or is this something I'd need to get done professionally? Could I request a bigger hole than the one in OP? Just want to make sure I'm getting max airflow to my bearings.

[GRUESOM3]

the more I read these threads the more I hate this car..

[PorkchopExpress]

Originally Posted by GRUESOM3

the more I read these threads the more I hate this forum..

Fixed