[P-Bass]

Originally Posted by JamesNoBrakes

Paddle shifters.

Autos are faster, more efficient and better than manual in many categories that were once the polar opposite. I love rowing through gears and have only ever had manuals until this car and I will probably pick up something for fun that is manual, but I don't lie to myself about the progress of auto transmissions either.

Who's lying? It's always the same: faster, more efficient, better technology. Not the point, Manual people don't care. I drove a DCT M4 yesterday, hated the DCT and couldn't imagine living with that thing. Remember the Orgasmatron from the movie Sleeper? (If not look it up) I still prefer the Manual option...

[dalto]

If you are a die hard MT fan I strongly recommend you find a car you really like in the next few years and then plan to hold onto it.

Sad as it is, the MT is dying in the US.

My solution is to find a fun weekend car that I can drive when I want an MT fix. That being said, my DD has not been an MT in a while so my feelings are not nearly as strong as some of you.

[Blubaron79]

The 3 is sexier after you put all the M Parts on it. ;-) Get the 340.

[bovino]

This is reality. The manual is an inferior (albeit fun) technology. It's hard to sell a car as a performance vehicle and then slow it down with a manual six speed. Eventually that'll be it. Same for turbos...they are here and not going anywhere. Buy an old car with normal aspiration and manual transmission but don't expect a brand new Bimmer in a few years to fit the bill.




This is the retread of "who wants electronic fuel injection?" From 30 years ago.

[radm]

Manual is a lot of fun, I wouldn't compare it with the turbo lag issues or whatever reason people do not/did not like turbos for.

You are not passionate about having a clutch pedal. Most are not, but imagine how you will feel if they took away the steering wheel from you as they will sooner or later. It will become an inferior technology. Then you can also rationalize it to yourself that it is the same thing as adding electronic fuel injection was 30 years ago.

[P-Bass]

Originally Posted by bovino

This is reality. The manual is an inferior (albeit fun) technology. It's hard to sell a car as a performance vehicle and then slow it down with a manual six speed. Eventually that'll be it. Same for turbos...they are here and not going anywhere. Buy an old car with normal aspiration and manual transmission but don't expect a brand new Bimmer in a few years to fit the bill.




This is the retread of "who wants electronic fuel injection?" From 30 years ago.

Thanks for deciding what is better for me, I appreciate the assistance. Sarcasm aside, unfortunately, you and the market have spoken and that is what makes me sad. I'll buy the last one they make with a manual , hold onto it and live happily ever after in Jurassic Park.

[PKL]

Originally Posted by PSA955

Thanks for deciding what is better for me, I appreciate the assistance. Sarcasm aside, unfortunately, you and the market have spoken and that is what makes me sad. I'll buy the last one they make with a manual , hold onto it and live happily ever after in Jurassic Park.

Lol, good post.

For me, nothing can replace the feel of MT, the rowing through the gears, I could care less if my MT has a slower 0-60 time, I will NEVER drive an automatic.

Looks like my next car will be back to a 2 door. I enjoyed the practicality of the 4 door, but the 4 series is what I want next not the 3, and it has to be an MT, so no GC for me.

[bovino]

Originally Posted by PSA955

Thanks for deciding what is better for me, I appreciate the assistance. Sarcasm aside, unfortunately, you and the market have spoken and that is what makes me sad. I'll buy the last one they make with a manual , hold onto it and live happily ever after in Jurassic Park.

In fairness, I didn't decide what is better for you. The DCT shifts faster than a 6MT and all else being equal makes the car accelerate faster. Ii admit MT is fun, but it's just realistic to think the days are somewhat limited given the direction companies have gone. I hope not, I'm just saying it isn't surprising.


We all have our Jurassic Parks.

[DrivenByE30]

Originally Posted by tboooe

Totally agree. I am not saying autos + paddle shifters suck. However, there is something intrinsically fun and visceral about manuals, even if it is not as efficient or slower than today's autos. I guess I am just an old guy, having grown up only driving manuals. Guys like me are a dying consumer breed unfortunately.

Yes to this 👍

[.BMW.]

Originally Posted by DrivenByE30

Yes to this 👍

+1

[James550i6spd]

Manuals are still very much alive in Europe. It's the North American market that wants to be able to text or drink and eat while driving, and in effect, causes a car culture devoid of any want or need for manuals

Having said that, the auto in the F30 is fantastic. Just didn't engage me like a manual does.

[P-Bass]

Originally Posted by bovino

In fairness, I didn't decide what is better for you. The DCT shifts faster than a 6MT and all else being equal makes the car accelerate faster. Ii admit MT is fun, but it's just realistic to think the days are somewhat limited given the direction companies have gone. I hope not, I'm just saying it isn't surprising.


We all have our Jurassic Parks.

You are correct on both counts. I get a little sensitive/mad that manuals are on the endangered species list.

[Michael Schott]

Originally Posted by bovino

This is reality. The manual is an inferior (albeit fun) technology. It's hard to sell a car as a performance vehicle and then slow it down with a manual six speed. Eventually that'll be it. Same for turbos...they are here and not going anywhere. Buy an old car with normal aspiration and manual transmission but don't expect a brand new Bimmer in a few years to fit the bill.




This is the retread of "who wants electronic fuel injection?" From 30 years ago.

Not even close to the EFI vs carb argument. There is no reason to favor carbs over EFI. There are good reasons for an enthusiast to want the 3rd pedal.

[bovino]

Originally Posted by Michael Schott

Not even close to the EFI vs carb argument. There is no reason to favor carbs over EFI. There are good reasons for an enthusiast to want the 3rd pedal.

In th4x4 community there are plenty of "reasons" that were given. The bottom line is objective performance improves with technology even if subjective measures like "fun" do not. I'm not making a value judgement or saying anyone is wrong, I'm just saying good or bad--like EFI--I think the die is cast. In 10 years I doubt MT will be an option in a luxury performance car. Just my prediction and reasoning.

[BavarianFanatic]

Lol at all of the folks who claim autos are "better" because they can shift faster. There's way more to life than blasting from stoplight to stoplight. There is no "better or worse" when discussing one's subjective opinion. Get over yourselves already.

There is still a very significant contingent that prefer manuals, but not all are in a position to custom order since that's the only way to get one. Left with no choice, they take the compromise.

If you like autos - good for you. But you can spare the rest of us your rants about better, outdated, slower, old, etc. We didn't ask for your opinion and, frankly, don't really care.

[bovino]

Originally Posted by BavarianFanatic

Lol at all of the folks who claim autos are "better" because they can shift faster. There's way more to life than blasting from stoplight to stoplight. There is no "better or worse" when discussing one's subjective opinion. Get over yourselves already.

There is still a very significant contingent that prefer manuals, but not all are in a position to custom order since that's the only way to get one. Left with no choice, they take the compromise.

If you like autos - good for you. But you can spare the rest of us your rants about better, outdated, slower, old, etc. We didn't ask for your opinion and, frankly, don't really care.

Hey man, it's the Internet. You have your opinion and I have mine. Read my post, I'm not mad about MT or against them in anyway. I'm just saying the DCT offers some pretty objective benefits for a performance car. You're free to disagree.


Wasn't meant as a rant. Just conversations. My bad.

[BavarianFanatic]

Originally Posted by bovino

Hey man, it's the Internet. You have your opinion and I have mine. Read my post, I'm not mad about MT or against them in anyway. I'm just saying the DCT offers some pretty objective benefits for a performance car. You're free to disagree.


Wasn't meant as a rant. Just conversations. My bad.

It wasn't necessarily directed at you. No worries.

And DCT IS a manual trans. It just doesn't have a third pedal or external mechanical shift linkage.

[RM7]

Originally Posted by BavarianFanatic

And DCT IS a manual trans.

Does it shift gears by itself?

[BavarianFanatic]

Originally Posted by JamesNoBrakes

Does it shift gears by itself?

Yes, but it's still not an "automatic transmission" in this context. It's a dual clutch manual that happens to have the ability to initiate shifts on its own. A true automatic transmission has a torque converter, valve body, and planetary gear set with clutches and bands. An automatic is fluid-coupled to the engine. A DCT is completely mechanical with only hydraulic actuation.

DCT is/was intended to allow for manual gear changes while under load with gear selections hydraulically actuated. The Drivelogic capabilities were added to appease all of the owners who thought they were automatics...

http://www.bmw.com/com/en/insights/t...DKG_drivelogic

[HighlandPete]

Over here in Europe with the emphasis on performance diesels we don't get a manual option in many of the models. Popular models like the 330/430d & 335/435d are auto only.

UK doesn't even get an F10 M5 with MT. One of our UK motor mags' came across to the US to try the M5 manual transmission, to report back what it is like.

HighlandPete

[tboooe]

And this is why I love my motorcycle!!

[RM7]

Originally Posted by BavarianFanatic

Yes

Ah, so it's a kind of "automatic" transmission.