F82 M4 vs. Tuned E92 M3 on the 'Ring

[FogCityM3]

FBO E92 M3, also tested by SportAuto in Tuner GP

http://www.autoevolution.com/news/a-...gts-40488.html

http://www.sportauto.de/einzeltests/...u-1430341.html

[Jockey]

Oh good, now we're comparing modified to stock. That didn't take long.

[jc05e46m3]

Originally Posted by FogCityM3

FBO E92 M3, also tested by SportAuto in Tuner GP

http://www.autoevolution.com/news/a-...gts-40488.html

http://www.sportauto.de/einzeltests/...u-1430341.html

That thing had more than your typical FBO E92.

EDIT: Id love to see an F82 with different camshafts, a tune, a spec KW Clubsport susp., and lighter wheels to name a few. I bet it would destroy the F82. We have to keep it stock Vs stock.

[FogCityM3]

Yes, because some have done cost/benefit analyses to keep their N/A motors and rather than get the new one, instead invest to make the old one better.

Originally Posted by Jockey

Oh good, now we're comparing modified to stock. That didn't take long.

[ASAP]

Originally Posted by Jockey

Oh good, now we're comparing modified to stock. That didn't take long.

Going back to my comment about track days...

Whatever makes someone feel good...

[Never Convicted]

Originally Posted by Jockey

Oh good, now we're comparing modified to stock. That didn't take long.

All you have to do is throw $30-40K into your E92, and it's almost as fast as the new one. I believe this is a phenomena called "flailing."

[jc05e46m3]

Originally Posted by FogCityM3

Yes, because some have done cost/benefit analyses to keep their N/A motors and rather than get the new one, instead invest to make the old one better.

I can tell you for a fact that when you get into the realm of spec suspensions, camshafts, and those type modifications there is no benefit for the cost. (unless you have an older 08/09 E9x). All in all, any NA build will cost exponentially more than an FI build. Even if the FI has a large pricetag. That's just how it's been forever. I remember back in my HS days, an all-motor K20/K24 or H22 hatch would cost $$$$$ compared to a t3/t4 powered B16/B18 and the FI still had untapped potential on top. (Don't know if anyone can relate there...)

[JRV]

Originally Posted by FogCityM3

Yes, because some have done cost/benefit analyses to keep their N/A motors and rather than get the new one, instead invest to make the old one better.

Yes i knew exactly what you were getting at. I saw the value in your post right away.
This new car has better performance but for those not jumping into it and holding onto the E9X M3, even the new F8X M3/M4 owners get the benefit to compare what does the E9X M3 have to do to compete. Nothing wrong with it.
However, are those just FBO M3s? Looks to be more modified.

[jc05e46m3]

Originally Posted by Never Convicted

All you have to do is throw $30-40K into your E92, and it's almost as fast as the new one. I believe this is a phenomena called "flailing."

or "failing"

[FogCityM3]

LOL..$15k-20k in US, maybe less depending on wheel setup. Ask me how I know.

Originally Posted by Never Convicted

All you have to do is throw $30-40K into your E92, and it's almost as fast as the new one. I believe this is a phenomena called "flailing."

[Boss330]

Originally Posted by Never Convicted

All you have to do is throw $30-40K into your E92, and it's almost as fast as the new one. I believe this is a phenomena called "flailing."

Originally Posted by jc05e46m3

or "failing"

Perhaps "Rationalization" is a good definition as well

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rationa...making_excuses)

[FogCityM3]

100% agree. Right now, new M3/4 would be one of my top 2 choices if I were in the market for a new ride.

Originally Posted by JRV

Yes i knew exactly what you were getting at. I saw the value in your post right away.
This new car has better performance but for those not jumping into it and holding onto the E9X M3, even the new F8X M3/M4 owners get the benefit to compare what does the E9X M3 have to do to compete. Nothing wrong with it.
However, are those just FBO M3s? Looks to be more modified.

[FogCityM3]

Hahha.. more like vindication.

Originally Posted by Boss330

Perhaps "Rationalization" is a good definition as well

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rationa...making_excuses)

[Never Convicted]

Originally Posted by FogCityM3

LOL..$15k-20k in US, maybe less depending on wheel setup. Ask me how I know.

Because you were riding behind the truck that the exhaust, CCB, wheels, tires, tune, cams, suspension fell off? Sure...that's believable.

[FogCityM3]

BBK, x-pipe, apex lightweight wheels, tune, suspension and even cams with get you there. Obviously CCB won't. Actually think the CCB is a bargain on the new M3/4. That Mov-it Kit is $20+k

[Sedan_Clan]

Originally Posted by jc05e46m3

I can tell you for a fact that when you get into the realm of spec suspensions, camshafts, and those type modifications there is no benefit for the cost. (unless you have an older 08/09 E9x). All in all, any NA build will cost exponentially more than an FI build. Even if the FI has a large pricetag. That's just how it's been forever. I remember back in my HS days, an all-motor K20/K24 or H22 hatch would cost $$$$$ compared to a t3/t4 powered B16/B18 and the FI still had untapped potential on top. (Don't know if anyone can relate there...)

I can relate. I had a fully built all-motor B16 block/B18 head in a '00 EK hatch, and sourcing the Toda Spec C cams/valve springs, Type R throttle body and intake manifold, port/polishing the head (..with a very slight mill), the pistons, Mugen ECU, etc. cost more than just a bolt on turbo kit, and that was with a hook up. Those were the days though. Damn, I miss them!

[Lups]

Originally Posted by Jockey

Oh good, now we're comparing modified to stock. That didn't take long.

It actually took longer than I thought possible! I think it's always the saddest thing when modmads get a hold of any car, and after I take over the universe, there will be a special licensing department in my regime that will have to be consulted before even the wheels get changed. Vote for me, the scenery will age more nicely.

[jc05e46m3]

Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan

I can relate. I had a fully built all-motor B16 block/B18 head in a '00 EK hatch, and sourcing the Toda Spec C cams/valve springs, Type R throttle body and intake manifold, port/polishing the head (..with a very slight mill), the pistons, Mugen ECU, etc. cost more than just a bolt on turbo kit, and that was with a hook up. Those were the days though. Damn, I miss them!

Nice. Glad I wasn't speaking jibberish to at least one person.

[FogCityM3]

Don't disagree, TC tuning is way way cheaper, if can be done with zero consequences. If you talk to the tuners, this S55 ECU is probably going to be very tough to crack for flash tune and warranty wise, will be very easy for BMW to tell, unlike the old N/A motors based on some of the things I'm hearing. Have not heard of a case yet of denial of warranty claim due to a tune with the E9xs. Gratned you're talkign 15-25 bhp gain at most with an N/A tune.

Originally Posted by jc05e46m3

I can tell you for a fact that when you get into the realm of spec suspensions, camshafts, and those type modifications there is no benefit for the cost. (unless you have an older 08/09 E9x). All in all, any NA build will cost exponentially more than an FI build. Even if the FI has a large pricetag. That's just how it's been forever. I remember back in my HS days, an all-motor K20/K24 or H22 hatch would cost $$$$$ compared to a t3/t4 powered B16/B18 and the FI still had untapped potential on top. (Don't know if anyone can relate there...)

[jc05e46m3]

Originally Posted by FogCityM3

Don't disagree, TC tuning is way way cheaper, if can be done with zero consequences. If you talk to the tuners, this S55 ECU is probably going to be very tough to crack for flash tune and warranty wise, will be very easy for BMW to tell, unlike the old N/A motors based on some of the things I'm hearing. Have not heard of a case yet of denial of warranty claim due to a tune with the E9xs. Gratned you're talkign 15-25 bhp gain at most with an N/A tune.

I agree. The F10 still hasn't been cracked. I think I will run a piggyback in the meantime while I wait for something to come up. I know for a fact that Terry at BMS purchased an M3 or M4 (don't know which) to R&D his solution and he's already figured out electronic wastegate control so we're making progress in that department. I just wonder how much boost was left on the table. I honestly think full catless exhaust, piggyback and E85 or 103 Octane is going to make this thing ridiculous. I had a tune on my E92 and the dealer didn't even mind.

[Sedan_Clan]

Originally Posted by jc05e46m3

I agree. The F10 still hasn't been cracked. I think I will run a piggyback in the meantime while I wait for something to come up. I know for a fact that Terry at BMS purchased an M3 or M4 (don't know which) to R&D his solution and he's already figured out electronic wastegate control so we're making progress in that department. I just wonder how much boost was left on the table. I honestly think full catless exhaust, piggyback and E85 or 103 Octane is going to make this thing ridiculous. I had a tune on my E92 and the dealer didn't even mind.

A lot of dealers don't. In fact, many will sell/recommend BMS products. Times are changing!

[Jockey]

Oh hey, I was wondering where this went. It created any entirely new thread. Good.