[makkan00]

Hi
Sorry to post this in the main section but I am posting it here so I can get a prompt reply.

I am contemplating the idea of changing my car to 330D.

I have seen a car today. Owner has allowed me to check any errors before and after test drive.
No Engine / gearbox errors at all. This car is one owner car and well looked after with FBMSH.

Now when I inspected the 330D car (one of the last M57 engines) from the passenger side front panel I noticed this. The coolant hose is going in there and leakage is there.
It may be coolant leakage or swirl flap gasket failure.



Can anybody kindly confirm what it may be?
And possible cost?

Thanks.
PS: Owner does not know what this is and fully unaware of it as it is hidden under the engine cover.
Car is on 85K.

[330d xdrive Scotty]

Given the general area you have shown in the photos and the mileage, it is most likely to be the swirl flaps O rings passing oil. Two options - get blanks fitted or renew the O rings. Either way, it is a manifold off job so a couple of hours labour. The blank kits vary in price but i believe around the £25 - £50 mark dependant upon the quality.

[oldbilly]

if the swirl flap were leaking, there would be oil on the block between the manifold and lower block area, if its a water leak it maybe the pipe to the small egr thermostat, both are easy fixes the egr stat take about 20 minutes to change, regarding the swirl flap leaking, manifold off, you could either blank them or re-seal them, this is what I have done on my m57 330d 8 months ago which solved the oil leak problem, when I purchased the car it had 130k with fbsh now on 160k, but I changed both thermostats myself to ensure correct running temps which important on the diesel engines.

I have full set of unused m57 PMW blanks if your interested.

[tmarshall57]

Check if the leakage is dirty diesel oil from the swirl flaps or coolant from the pipe you point to.. I would suggest it will be diesel from the flaps. I sealed the swirl flaps on mine with Tiger Seal but there is still potential for leakage from the swirl pivot pins i.e. where the swirl flap pivot shaft exits to attach to the actuator rod.

TBH I can live with this and just squirt some degreaser down the RHS of the engine and onto the under tray every 12 months. I'm not convinced that blanking off the flaps doesn't result in performance loss. Mines done 168k and still feels like new.

[makkan00]

Originally Posted by new 335d m sport owner

Given the general area you have shown in the photos and the mileage, it is most likely to be the swirl flaps O rings passing oil. Two options - get blanks fitted or renew the O rings. Either way, it is a manifold off job so a couple of hours labour. The blank kits vary in price but i believe around the £25 - £50 mark dependant upon the quality.

Thanks. I tried to touch the residual stuff and it was not sticky (if it was coolant).
So I am taking it that it might be diesel.
But then again, no strong smell of diesel.

Originally Posted by oldbilly

if the swirl flap were leaking, there would be oil on the block between the manifold and lower block area, if its a water leak it maybe the pipe to the small egr thermostat, both are easy fixes the egr stat take about 20 minutes to change, regarding the swirl flap leaking, manifold off, you could either blank them or re-seal them, this is what I have done on my m57 330d 8 months ago which solved the oil leak problem, when I purchased the car it had 130k with fbsh now on 160k, but I changed both thermostats myself to ensure correct running temps which important on the diesel engines.

I have full set of unused m57 PMW blanks if your interested.

There was minor oil or whatever it was b.w the manifold and lower block. So its most probably swirl flap?

Going back to MPG, it was averaging at 34-35 mpg. That seems low for 330d? Will have to check the running temp if / when I buy the car.

Originally Posted by tmarshall57

Check if the leakage is dirty diesel oil from the swirl flaps or coolant from the pipe you point to.. I would suggest it will be diesel from the flaps. I sealed the swirl flaps on mine with Tiger Seal but there is still potential for leakage from the swirl pivot pins i.e. where the swirl flap pivot shaft exits to attach to the actuator rod.

TBH I can live with this and just squirt some degreaser down the RHS of the engine and onto the under tray every 12 months. I'm not convinced that blanking off the flaps doesn't result in performance loss. Mines done 168k and still feels like new.

It seemed to be diesel but no smell.

168K and good

I read old billy's post somewhere (quoted from a different forum) that blanking plates have negative effects on lower RPMs especially around 1000 RPM and below.

Is removing manifold a DIY job?
And what is the consequences of leaving it as it is if its swirl flaps?

Thanks.

[tmarshall57]

Removing manifold is a DIY job for the reasonably confident and competent. There is a reasonable DIY related to 330D glowplug replacement. I used this when I replaced a glowplug but there are some omissions which caused me frustration. The main thing is watching out for not dropping bolts, washers, gaskets into places from which they will only reappear 12 - 18 months later.

I removed the manifold a couple of weeks ago to replace the EGR pressure converter and the job was a piece of cake this time. See

http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=799181

If it is swirl flaps then the consequence is a bit of regurgitated diesel from the manifold (which looks like oil) dripping down the side of the engine.

[jimbo666]

One consequence is the oil finding its way into your starter motor and borking the commutator etc. it's a fiddly bastard job to change the motor.

[makkan00]

Thanks guys.
Very useful info and helpful community members.

[Ajs_435d]

I had leaking swirl flaps as the seals had perished over time, this resulted in a power drop but it was only slight.

Whilst the manifold is off I'd clean it best you can and replace glow plugs as you'll kill a few birds with one stone, my glow plugs were showing signs of needing to be replaced a circa 90k one was slightly seized in too.

[AlwynMike]

Sam,

When I removed the flaps from my '04 530d, I could not tell any difference in performance whatsoever - it was a manual car, so bottom end performance drops would have been noticeable.

The upside was better fuel consumption of about 0.5 mpg (I keep fuel records, not relying on the OBC)

It is an easy enough job, although I agree about dropping bolts - I did an never found the thing. I even got a boroscope to look in all the nooks and crannies!

I did mine before the blanks were commercially available - just saw off the shaft, remove the flap, drill/tap the shaft hole, plug with a suitable screw (Loctite'd)

Mike

[oldbilly]

Originally Posted by AlwynMike

Sam,

When I removed the flaps from my '04 530d, I could not tell any difference in performance whatsoever - it was a manual car, so bottom end performance drops would have been noticeable.

The upside was better fuel consumption of about 0.5 mpg (I keep fuel records, not relying on the OBC)

It is an easy enough job, although I agree about dropping bolts - I did an never found the thing. I even got a boroscope to look in all the nooks and crannies!

I did mine before the blanks were commercially available - just saw off the shaft, remove the flap, drill/tap the shaft hole, plug with a suitable screw (Loctite'd)

.

Mike

you were right to remove the flaps on an 04 330d, old type flaps and earlier software technology, on the later engines ECU software plays a greater part in the swirl and tumble technology and the flaps are the updated plastic cartridge type, removing them could create more soot and may shorten the DPF life.
On my own 330d I replaced my original flaps with some low mileage ones at 150k as its really not necessary to remove the later flaps as there are no failures that I know of and I'm an avid reader on a number of bmw sites. also I have done an egr bypass to clean up the intake.
The 3rd pic taken 6 months after sealing the flaps when I changed the glow plug controller and you can see there is no oil on the block at all, so as long as the flaps are still good sealing them can be done successfully

[AlwynMike]

Mine had the (slightly) later flaps with the larger spindles - they were in OK condition as the car hadn't done many miles, but I just removed them for peace of mind.

At that time, there had been a couple of instances of the larger spindled flaps breaking on the 530's (reported on E60.net)

Mike

[makkan00]

Originally Posted by ajs_335d

I had leaking swirl flaps as the seals had perished over time, this resulted in a power drop but it was only slight.

Whilst the manifold is off I'd clean it best you can and replace glow plugs as you'll kill a few birds with one stone, my glow plugs were showing signs of needing to be replaced a circa 90k one was slightly seized in too.

Good idea. I will have to get used to search the parts for 330d from here onward.

[makkan00]

Originally Posted by AlwynMike

Sam,

When I removed the flaps from my '04 530d, I could not tell any difference in performance whatsoever - it was a manual car, so bottom end performance drops would have been noticeable.

The upside was better fuel consumption of about 0.5 mpg (I keep fuel records, not relying on the OBC)

It is an easy enough job, although I agree about dropping bolts - I did an never found the thing. I even got a boroscope to look in all the nooks and crannies!

I did mine before the blanks were commercially available - just saw off the shaft, remove the flap, drill/tap the shaft hole, plug with a suitable screw (Loctite'd)

Mike

Thanks Mike. Always appreciate your helpful response.
As old billy stated that new ECUs sense the position of theses and removing these may have some negative effects.

[makkan00]

Originally Posted by oldbilly

you were right to remove the flaps on an 04 330d, old type flaps and earlier software technology, on the later engines ECU software plays a greater part in the swirl and tumble technology and the flaps are the updated plastic cartridge type, removing them could create more soot and may shorten the DPF life.
On my own 330d I replaced my original flaps with some low mileage ones at 150k as its really not necessary to remove the later flaps as there are no failures that I know of and I'm an avid reader on a number of bmw sites. also I have done an egr bypass to clean up the intake.
The 3rd pic taken 6 months after sealing the flaps when I changed the glow plug controller and you can see there is no oil on the block at all, so as long as the flaps are still good sealing them can be done successfully

Hats off to you for doing all this.
I may probably take it to my indy for the job as I am not good with the engine side.

So to summaries, I cannot / should not use the blank plates.
So what should I do?
Buy new seals or gaskets? (anybody has part number handy)

Or changing seals does not help and I should use some sort of sealant?

[Dan-danGT]

I think you can't buy the seals it's a manifold. Just blank them off its easier and simple. They won't effect regen that much if any. Also mines been blanked for 10k and there has been no side effects at all!

[makkan00]

Originally Posted by Dan-danGT

I think you can't buy the seals it's a manifold. Just blank them off its easier and simple. They won't effect regen that much if any. Also mines been blanked for 10k and there has been no side effects at all!

Dan
What year is your car?
And is it auto?

[Dan-danGT]

It's on 08 plate with auto box yeah, it's done 94k now.

[makkan00]

Originally Posted by Dan-danGT

It's on 08 plate with auto box yeah, it's done 94k now.

Thanks.
Have you noticed any drop in performance on lower rpm?

[oldbilly]

I just used a premium silicone sealant which did the trick!

[Dan-danGT]

Not really no, it still pulls like a train from a standing start once the delay with taking up drive has past. Unless you plant it then it just lights the tyres up in 2nd no problem, it's quick and very punchy low down. It made 273 hp and 475 ft ibs of torque with the standard intercooler I'm now using a Wagner and it defiantly pulls better

[Dan-danGT]

Shame your not local otherwise you could try it for yourself, I don't think you will be disappointed with the 330d