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      04-02-2014, 04:26 PM   #1
KevN27
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Just Carbon Ceramic Brakes

Anyone else thinking of just getting the carbon ceramic bakes (and 19" wheels), with no other options? Honestly none of the other options really intrigue me. There are some i would like to have, but not (price and useless features such as headlight washers) in an bloated package. Or save myself 10K. The car probably sees 2-3 track days/year. Just thought the longevity and 40+ lbs of unsprung weight savings will be nice. Oh and the bling factor. .
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      04-02-2014, 04:55 PM   #2
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If I were you I'd go check out Rennlist and read a few posts. The vast majority of 911 owners who have carbon brakes take them off before doing track days.

Not only that but if you were to order a base car with only carbon brakes I wouldn't hope for much on resale for just that one option.
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      04-02-2014, 04:58 PM   #3
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If they were a bit less I might spring for them but right now I really like the base model car.

It's certainly a option worth the money if you are tracking all the time.
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      04-02-2014, 05:03 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Benjamin View Post
If they were a bit less I might spring for them but right now I really like the base model car.

It's certainly a option worth the money if you are tracking all the time.
They will last longer if the car is used exclusively on the street but if they see track time, they perform better, but they do not last longer. That is the reason why the Porsche guys take their carbon rotors off before their cars see track time. They are prohibitively expensive to replace.
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      04-02-2014, 05:10 PM   #5
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I ordered them
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      04-02-2014, 06:02 PM   #6
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Me too, can't wait. I love them on my GT3, including using them on track. One of the main benefits that isn't discussed often is just how much better the steering feel is. I've driven GT3's with and without PCCBs back to back, and the difference is pretty stark.

Loving that I can buy ceramics on the M3, it's one of the reasons I ordered the car, that's how sold on them I am.

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      04-02-2014, 10:45 PM   #7
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Post in the new suspension/brakes/chassis forum area. Read the good, long thread over there (used to be here before the re-org): http://f80.bimmerpost.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=949083
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      04-02-2014, 10:54 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KevN27 View Post
40+ lbs of unsprung weight savings will be nice. Oh and the bling factor. .
More like 13-15lb on the F8X... (See here)

But that bling factor is definitely there
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      04-02-2014, 11:59 PM   #9
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Bling bling
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      04-03-2014, 12:26 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CanAutM3 View Post
More like 13-15lb on the F8X... (See here)

But that bling factor is definitely there
There is some contradictory info on the configurator. It shows a total weight savings of 42 pounds.
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      04-03-2014, 05:50 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alpine F31 View Post
There is some contradictory info on the configurator. It shows a total weight savings of 42 pounds.
As stated in other threads, the US website seems full of errors...

It seems they just cut and paste the info from the M5 configurator.

http://www.bmwusa.com/standard/conte...modelcode=145G

Last edited by CanAutM3; 04-03-2014 at 06:27 AM..
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      04-07-2014, 05:37 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rated R View Post
That is the reason why the Porsche guys take their carbon rotors off before their cars see track time. They are prohibitively expensive to replace.
As a Porsche track guy, I can confirm that. There is another thing worth considering that I have not read so far. Because the Carbon Brake package comes with bigger calipers (6-pot and 4-pot vs. 4-pot and 2-pot) and the rotor diameter and thickness is greater with the carbons, this will allow someone who options the carbon brakes to replace his rotors with much beefier iron/aluminum rotors. Replace rotors immediately and save the mint carbons for resale (with the car or separately) or wait til they're worn out - the more expensive route.

This is something that was commonly done on the 996 GT3 with PCCB's - nice advantage to have the larger hardware (and the difference here is much larger between stock and carbon setups than with the Porsche) when you replace with larger metal rotors. There will be larger aftermarket metal rotors (larger diameter and thicker) designed to replace the carbon rotors almost immediately upon release of the cars and having the larger rotors, brake pads and calipers will help shed a bunch more heat than stock ones.
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Last edited by grant; 04-07-2014 at 05:44 PM..
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      04-07-2014, 06:13 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grant View Post
As a Porsche track guy, I can confirm that. There is another thing worth considering that I have not read so far. Because the Carbon Brake package comes with bigger calipers (6-pot and 4-pot vs. 4-pot and 2-pot) and the rotor diameter and thickness is greater with the carbons, this will allow someone who options the carbon brakes to replace his rotors with much beefier iron/aluminum rotors. Replace rotors immediately and save the mint carbons for resale (with the car or separately) or wait til they're worn out - the more expensive route.

This is something that was commonly done on the 996 GT3 with PCCB's - nice advantage to have the larger hardware (and the difference here is much larger between stock and carbon setups than with the Porsche) when you replace with larger metal rotors. There will be larger aftermarket metal rotors (larger diameter and thicker) designed to replace the carbon rotors almost immediately upon release of the cars and having the larger rotors, brake pads and calipers will help shed a bunch more heat than stock ones.
They are made by Brembo shouldn't be to hard to find replacement steel rotors. Also means there will be extra CCB floating around if people swap them out who want to track them.
How much are the Porsche guys getting for there CCB rotors and pads?
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      04-07-2014, 06:43 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tonymiabmw View Post
How much are the Porsche guys getting for there CCB rotors and pads?
Around $7k or more for barely used in perfect condition! Still worth several grand used in decent condition. I think factory replacements are $12k for rotors alone.

Chevy ones (same as used on Enzo and Carrera GT) are cheap at around $1,200 each. Ferrari charges over 4 times as much for same part.

Has anyone seen rotor replacement costs for M3/4. Probably more than $8k (remember that option cost is only the difference between steel and carbon - fully replacement set could be $10k afaik)
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Last edited by grant; 04-07-2014 at 06:49 PM..
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      04-07-2014, 06:48 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grant View Post
5-figures for slightly used in good condition!
I am not sure if there is such a market for new/slightly used CCBs with M3s vs. how many die hard track guys there are with Porsche. Just a gut feeling from reading some of the threads here regarding steel vs. CCB. Most would run regular rotor to avoid pay thousands. Think if I get it, I won't be taking them off.
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      04-07-2014, 07:40 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CanAutM3 View Post
More like 13-15lb on the F8X... (See here)

But that bling factor is definitely there
Well is it 13 lbs or 15 lbs? You'd think if someone knew the facts they would know what the true weight saving is. It's not a variable amount from one car to the next. It will be the same amount on every F8X produced. This information is lacking accuracy so it can't be absolutely correct.
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      04-07-2014, 07:50 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JS919 View Post
Well is it 13 lbs or 15 lbs? You'd think if someone knew the facts they would know what the true weight saving is. It's not a variable amount from one car to the next. It will be the same amount on every F8X produced. This information is lacking accuracy so it can't be absolutely correct.
I would go by what CanAutM3 says he is usually right. Guy has knowledge beyond yours
and mine.
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      04-07-2014, 07:56 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JS919 View Post
Well is it 13 lbs or 15 lbs? You'd think if someone knew the facts they would know what the true weight saving is. It's not a variable amount from one car to the next. It will be the same amount on every F8X produced. This information is lacking accuracy so it can't be absolutely correct.
From what I read, this info is directly from ///M top management involved in the development of the F8X. They provide a range (6-7kg) of the involved saving in the course of an informal discussion (I read 6.x kg of saving). They specifically mention that the saving is less than on the M5.

This, to me, is more reliable info than what is on the BMW.USA website (which is an obvious cut-and-paste from the M5 CCB).

Last edited by CanAutM3; 04-07-2014 at 08:10 PM..
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      04-07-2014, 07:56 PM   #19
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I ordered the CCB option on my M3, I'm not one bit worried about replacement cost. The reason being I'm 100% sure that I will never replace the rotors. They not only last 3-4 times as long (which means to me 150k - 200K miles), but they don't warp like iron when they are overheated. If I lease my M3 it will cost me about $12 per month (about the cost of a cheap lunch) to have them. To me the cost isn't an issue. If it were I'd probably wouldn't be buying an M3.
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      04-07-2014, 07:58 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pb12 View Post
Me too, can't wait. I love them on my GT3, including using them on track. One of the main benefits that isn't discussed often is just how much better the steering feel is. I've driven GT3's with and without PCCBs back to back, and the difference is pretty stark.

Loving that I can buy ceramics on the M3, it's one of the reasons I ordered the car, that's how sold on them I am.

M
Caliper and rotor weight won't contribute a huge amount to steering feel. Differences in tire pressure/tire wear, alignment settings, and normal car-to-car variation are most likely the cause of the difference in steering feel you noticed.
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      04-07-2014, 07:59 PM   #21
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I found out that the replacement rotors and pads will be around 10 to 12 k at BMW dealership. Similar to the M6. Not worth it. Plus they work better ones you get some heat into them, not going to work that great for winter driving. I am going after market next year.
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      04-07-2014, 08:05 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JS919 View Post
but they don't warp like iron when they are overheated.
Rotors the size as found on ///M cars don't warp. Warped rotors is a myth. Brake shudder is more than likely caused by pad deposit on the rotors.
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