BMW gods at BMWNA removed manual transmission option in 435i vert

PawnStar · 03-09-2014, 11:13 PM

How nice is it for BMW NA to take it upon themselves to limit choices for North American 435i convertible buyers! BMW AG builds the car for other countries with 3 pedals, and I want to buy it from them, without interference from a distributor who 'knows better'...At the very least give us a choice, like in the 435i coupe, we'll decide for ourselves!

Falafel Combo · 03-10-2014, 05:09 AM

They are total idiots in that regards. So far, this is the case with the 4 Gran Coupe as well. NO MANUAL FOR THE US.

I wonder if they can custom order one for you, as an individual car. Either way, it sucks, it is not very wise of them and will lead to some brand attrition.

SamS · 03-10-2014, 05:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alpinweiss 335i

I wonder if they can custom order one for you, as an individual car.

No, because that car/transmission combo has not been homogolized/certified for sale on the US. And it costs millions. So BMW does simple math based on projected sales volumes, and 6MT does not make the cut.

Falafel Combo · 03-10-2014, 08:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SamS

No, because that car/transmission combo has not been homogolized/certified for sale on the US. And it costs millions. So BMW does simple math based on projected sales volumes, and 6MT does not make the cut.

That would make sense, if that is the case. Would you happen to know why it costs so much to certify an already existing chassis/transmission combination?

swamy · 03-10-2014, 08:24 AM

They will just lose that slice of the MT market to MB which still has that option , priced lower than the AT too.

335BOY · 03-10-2014, 08:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by swamy

They will just lose that slice of the MT market to MB which still has that option , priced lower than the AT too.

MB sells an MT vert?

carzaddict · 03-10-2014, 09:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 335BOY

MB sells an MT vert?

i dont even think MB sells anything in MT anymore

swamy · 03-10-2014, 09:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 335BOY

MB sells an MT vert?

The SLK roadster seems in a similar price range and defaults to MT; AT is priced extra

UPDT:Just looked at their web site - the 350 V6 doesnt offer it but is there in the 250 version.

PawnStar · 03-10-2014, 09:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SamS

No, because that car/transmission combo has not been homogolized/certified for sale on the US. And it costs millions. So BMW does simple math based on projected sales volumes, and 6MT does not make the cut.

Can you provide a source for this, I may want to write a letter to BMWNA/AG and raise an issue. 435i coupe is available with a manual, seems like the same powertrain to me...

SamS · 03-10-2014, 10:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alpinweiss 335i

That would make sense, if that is the case. Would you happen to know why it costs so much to certify an already existing chassis/transmission combination?

Watch this video to get an idea of the costs/time/resources.

http://www.autoblog.com/2013/11/28/i...testing-video/

Quote:

Originally Posted by PawnStar

Can you provide a source for this, I may want to write a letter to BMWNA/AG and raise an issue. 435i coupe is available with a manual, seems like the same powertrain to me...

Coupe is not the same as a 'vert, from a certification standpoint. It's probably best to reach out directly to BMWNA for this type of thing.

PawnStar · 03-10-2014, 10:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SamS

Coupe is not the same as a 'vert, from a certification standpoint. It's probably best to reach out directly to BMWNA for this type of thing.

Both coupe chassis and convertible chassis are certified. The difference is in drivetrain, coupe is offered with both transmissions (both are obviously certified) while vert is automatic only. I would call NA but they'll just politely blow me off the phone with some excuse.

SamS · 03-10-2014, 10:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PawnStar

Both coupe chassis and convertible chassis are certified. The difference is in drivetrain, coupe is offered with both transmissions (both are obviously certified) while vert is automatic only. I would call NA but they'll just politely blow me off the phone with some excuse.

Each transmission/engine combination type must be certified per the type of vehicle. Coupes/verts are different!

http://www.nhtsa.gov/cars/rules/import/FMVSS/

Philipangoo · 03-10-2014, 10:37 AM

Same reason some brands only offer certain cars in auto / SMG. Look at the Audi TT-RS, they released it in 6-spd only and now people cry about how they wanted DCT transmission.

Think about how many E93 6-spd were actually sold and E46 cic 6-spd. The brand has to justify their decisions and automatic transmissions dominate the US market. Even with BMW individual you would probably not be able to do this, because that specific car would not be legalized for road use in the US.

Cyberdemon · 03-10-2014, 10:39 AM

While we're at it, we can get RWD 335D wagons, and all of the other unicorns wished upon the US that people say they want to buy but never actually do, thus the reason auto manufacturers stop providing them.

I know it's disappointing, but the reality is additional configurations of cars cost more money to bring over, and they sell in such abysmally low quantities that the 8 guys complaining on forums don't justify them doing it.

Blame your tens of thousands of peers who like Xdrive, gasoline engines, and automatics.

PawnStar · 03-10-2014, 10:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SamS

Each transmission/engine combination type must be certified per the type of vehicle. Coupes/verts are different!

http://www.nhtsa.gov/cars/rules/import/FMVSS/

I'm sure you're right, but an interesting read anyway. Can you save me a week of reading

through all the pages and pinpoint where it says that?? I'll educate myself to write a factual letter. More manual enthusiasts should join in the effort, the more of us, the louder is our collective voice!

SamS · 03-10-2014, 10:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cyberdemon

While we're at it, we can get RWD 335D wagons, and all of the other unicorns wished upon the US that people say they want to buy but never actually do, thus the reason auto manufacturers stop providing them.

I know it's disappointing, but the reality is additional configurations of cars cost more money to bring over, and they sell in such abysmally low quantities that the 8 guys complaining on forums don't justify them doing it.

Blame your tens of thousands of peers who like Xdrive, gasoline engines, and automatics.

This, x 1,000,000.

Quote:

Originally Posted by PawnStar

I'm sure you're right, but an interesting read anyway. Can you save me a week of reading

through all the pages and pinpoint where it says that?? I'll educate myself to write a factual letter. More manual enthusiasts should join in the effort, the more of us, the louder is our collective voice!

I'm no lawyer, but google is your friend

I'm afraid you're fighting a losing battle. The best you can do is just vote with your dollar, and buy a 6MT for a model that is offered both ways. Letters don't speak as loudly as $$$$.

PawnStar · 03-10-2014, 10:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cyberdemon

While we're at it, we can get RWD 335D wagons, and all of the other unicorns wished upon the US that people say they want to buy but never actually do, thus the reason auto manufacturers stop providing them.

I know it's disappointing, but the reality is additional configurations of cars cost more money to bring over, and they sell in such abysmally low quantities that the 8 guys complaining on forums don't justify them doing it.

Blame your tens of thousands of peers who like Xdrive, gasoline engines, and automatics.

BMWAG builds and sells this car in the rest of the world, therefore BMWNA should suck up additional costs (small price to pay for being the exclusive middle-man for North America) and offer it (with a smile) to US buyers as well. Even if there are only eight guys from the forums that will buy it.

SamS · 03-10-2014, 11:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PawnStar

BMWAG builds and sells this car in the rest of the world, therefore BMWNA should suck up additional costs (small price to pay for being the exclusive middle-man for North America) and offer it (with a smile) to US buyers as well. Even if there are only eight guys from the forums that will buy it.

Suck up the cost, potentially losing money on each one, leading to job cuts and other budget reductions for BMWNA? Makes total sense! Why have they waited so long?

Cyberdemon · 03-10-2014, 11:10 AM

Car companies tend not to want to be loss leaders on volume cars. It's not like the 435 is the Veyron where they can afford to take a loss on the millions of dollars in R&D because it's a company flagship.

Based on this:
http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/201...n-really-cost/

You're talking about $50 million as a rough point to start. Now much of that money will already be factored into some of the testing, but other testing every configuration change needs to be tested.

Consider the difference between X drive and RWD. To us, "it's just a factory change!" but in testing you know have a few hundred pounds of axles that will impact all of the road testing, crash testing ("Oh look an axle just flew through my face"), and other regulatory testing that the US requires just for changing the gearbox.

Even if it costs only $5 million to do the paperwork, figure out the margins BMWNA (not BMW itself) makes on each car. Then figure out how many it will take to just break even over the # of years they'll sell the car. Then realize that when most of those cars will sell a few dozen units a month at best, why they don't make them anymore.

Kafkaesque328 · 03-10-2014, 11:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cyberdemon

While we're at it, we can get RWD 335D wagons, and all of the other unicorns wished upon the US that people say they want to buy but never actually do, thus the reason auto manufacturers stop providing them.

I know it's disappointing, but the reality is additional configurations of cars cost more money to bring over, and they sell in such abysmally low quantities that the 8 guys complaining on forums don't justify them doing it.

Blame your tens of thousands of peers who like Xdrive, gasoline engines, and automatics.

Exactly. There are like 3 guys that would buy this car with a manual. No one buys manuals in the US anymore. This is just the way it is.

Quote:

Originally Posted by PawnStar

therefore BMWNA should suck up additional costs (small price to pay for being the exclusive middle-man for North America) and offer it (with a smile) to US buyers as well.

Why?

Bahn360Photo · 03-10-2014, 12:43 PM

never got this form the announcement.......why set these limits

nicknaz · 03-10-2014, 01:02 PM

hey, maybe no more 6MT orders because a 7MT is on the way!!

(if only)

03-09-2014, 11:13 PM	#1
PawnStar First Lieutenant 215 Rep 386 Posts Drives: twin turbo 6 with frunk Join Date: Feb 2012 Location: 131'n 56'w iTrader: (0)	BMW gods at BMWNA removed manual transmission option in 435i vert How nice is it for BMW NA to take it upon themselves to limit choices for North American 435i convertible buyers! BMW AG builds the car for other countries with 3 pedals, and I want to buy it from them, without interference from a distributor who 'knows better'...At the very least give us a choice, like in the 435i coupe, we'll decide for ourselves! Last edited by PawnStar; 03-09-2014 at 11:39 PM..
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03-10-2014, 05:09 AM	#2
Falafel Combo Banned 3773 Rep 6,673 Posts Drives: X5 xDrive50i Join Date: May 2011 Location: New England iTrader: (3)	They are total idiots in that regards. So far, this is the case with the 4 Gran Coupe as well. NO MANUAL FOR THE US. I wonder if they can custom order one for you, as an individual car. Either way, it sucks, it is not very wise of them and will lead to some brand attrition.
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03-10-2014, 08:24 AM	#5
swamy Private First Class 25 Rep 179 Posts Drives: 2013 328i MG/6MT Join Date: Jul 2013 Location: New Hope iTrader: (0)	They will just lose that slice of the MT market to MB which still has that option , priced lower than the AT too.
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03-10-2014, 10:37 AM	#13
Philipangoo Lieutenant 36 Rep 465 Posts Drives: F30 335 Join Date: Oct 2012 Location: TX iTrader: (0)	Same reason some brands only offer certain cars in auto / SMG. Look at the Audi TT-RS, they released it in 6-spd only and now people cry about how they wanted DCT transmission. Think about how many E93 6-spd were actually sold and E46 cic 6-spd. The brand has to justify their decisions and automatic transmissions dominate the US market. Even with BMW individual you would probably not be able to do this, because that specific car would not be legalized for road use in the US. __________________ 13 335i Msport 89 E30 325is 5spd
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03-10-2014, 10:39 AM	#14
Cyberdemon Brigadier General 1538 Rep 3,331 Posts Drives: 2020 X5 40i, 2018 M3 Comp Join Date: Jun 2012 Location: Long Island NY iTrader: (3)	While we're at it, we can get RWD 335D wagons, and all of the other unicorns wished upon the US that people say they want to buy but never actually do, thus the reason auto manufacturers stop providing them. I know it's disappointing, but the reality is additional configurations of cars cost more money to bring over, and they sell in such abysmally low quantities that the 8 guys complaining on forums don't justify them doing it. Blame your tens of thousands of peers who like Xdrive, gasoline engines, and automatics. __________________ Current: '20 X5, '18 M3 ZCP Previous: '11 E90 335i, '11 E90 M3, '16 VW GTI, '15 M235i, '13 335i, '08 TL-S, '00 Corvette
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03-10-2014, 11:10 AM	#19
Cyberdemon Brigadier General 1538 Rep 3,331 Posts Drives: 2020 X5 40i, 2018 M3 Comp Join Date: Jun 2012 Location: Long Island NY iTrader: (3)	Car companies tend not to want to be loss leaders on volume cars. It's not like the 435 is the Veyron where they can afford to take a loss on the millions of dollars in R&D because it's a company flagship. Based on this: http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/201...n-really-cost/ You're talking about $50 million as a rough point to start. Now much of that money will already be factored into some of the testing, but other testing every configuration change needs to be tested. Consider the difference between X drive and RWD. To us, "it's just a factory change!" but in testing you know have a few hundred pounds of axles that will impact all of the road testing, crash testing ("Oh look an axle just flew through my face"), and other regulatory testing that the US requires just for changing the gearbox. Even if it costs only $5 million to do the paperwork, figure out the margins BMWNA (not BMW itself) makes on each car. Then figure out how many it will take to just break even over the # of years they'll sell the car. Then realize that when most of those cars will sell a few dozen units a month at best, why they don't make them anymore. __________________ Current: '20 X5, '18 M3 ZCP Previous: '11 E90 335i, '11 E90 M3, '16 VW GTI, '15 M235i, '13 335i, '08 TL-S, '00 Corvette
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03-10-2014, 12:43 PM	#21
Bahn360Photo Fitness Gene 1113 Rep 2,413 Posts Drives: 2018 M4 Join Date: Feb 2014 Location: SoFlo iTrader: (2) Garage List 2006 bmw m5 [10.00] 2016 bmw z4 35is [8.33] 2000 bmw m5 [10.00] 2018 BMW M4 [10.00] 1987 BMW 325 Conver ... [10.00]	never got this form the announcement.......why set these limits __________________ Effective 11 Min Home Workouts????? No equipment????? 20 years of experience Spartan Race winner PROtrainer! Click the link?? https://www.youtube.com/c/FitnessGene
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03-10-2014, 01:02 PM	#22
nicknaz Lieutenant General 3187 Rep 10,509 Posts Drives: C6Z Join Date: May 2008 Location: NorCal iTrader: (0)	hey, maybe no more 6MT orders because a 7MT is on the way!! (if only)
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