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      02-10-2014, 08:42 PM   #1
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Summer or A/S Tires

What about everyone's thoughts on summer tire vs. A/S option? If I go w summer tire - for bettering handling - they'll inevitably need replacing after say 20km > How hard is it to replace the rubber w/o damaging the edges of the rims. My experience w Superior Tire the last time they fixed a nail in one of my tires, was that they chipped some of the OEM rims paint on the outer edges, and it didn't look too good. Can an OEM BMW dealer prevent such damage? If I go w A/S option then can avoid need to replace the rubber since last 40K+.
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      02-10-2014, 09:33 PM   #2
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I believe that getting the all season tire option also lowers the top speed to 130 MPH. But that might just be with the 228 - maybe someone else can verify.

I usually get about 10,000 miles out of my summers - but that depends on a lot of things like your driving style, road conditions, etc.
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      02-10-2014, 10:02 PM   #3
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Go with summers. Buy a BMW winter tire package. You live in Toronto?
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      02-11-2014, 12:22 AM   #4
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Just buy aftermarket winter tires and rims...

I think after tax this set me back $1800 for my F30

http://www.f30post.com/forums/showpo...5&postcount=80
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      02-11-2014, 07:49 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Seagull View Post
Just buy aftermarket winter tires and rims...

I think after tax this set me back $1800 for my F30

http://www.f30post.com/forums/showpo...5&postcount=80
Are those CSL wheel replicas well made and durable ? I would be wary of buying those especially for harsh winter usage. Then again if you take good care of them you might get a few winters out of them before they start corroding.
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      02-11-2014, 08:37 AM   #6
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Go with the A/S RFTs.
They last 2 or 3 times longer than the summer performance and they're good on the road 95% of the year (at least in Toronto and the GTA).
Better yet, wait for the xDrive version of the 2er and the A/S RFTs are good to go 100% of the year.
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      02-11-2014, 10:03 AM   #7
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Will you be driving it during the winter? RWD and A/S tires sucks. You run the risk of getting stuck or constantly fishtailing during acceleration in any significant amount of accumulated snow. For RWD I'd definitely go for summer tires and get a set of winters for the snowy season. If it's AWD you could probably get by with all-season but I'd still rather have a summer/winter set. It's more fun in all types of weather.
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      02-11-2014, 07:34 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wheelwright View Post
Are those CSL wheel replicas well made and durable ? I would be wary of buying those especially for harsh winter usage. Then again if you take good care of them you might get a few winters out of them before they start corroding.
Haha, of course there's no perfect soln. But I would rather get cheap reps damaged through no fault of my own than expensive rims or swapping my summers/winters off the same OEM rim. With the potholes debris etc, it would be a waste of a good rim in my opinion. So far so good but, I do keep the car and rims clean.
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      02-11-2014, 07:45 PM   #9
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Michelin pilot super spots summers should last 30 K miles with normal spirited driving.

Getting 10K miles out of your tires is an indication that you drive like a teenager and do burnouts at every traffic light, that you are replacing your tires way too soon, or a combination of the above.

Bald summer tires are completely fine in dry conditions. Those tread wear marks mean absolutely nothing
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      02-11-2014, 08:09 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Greg007 View Post
What about everyone's thoughts on summer tire vs. A/S option? If I go w summer tire - for bettering handling - they'll inevitably need replacing after say 20km > How hard is it to replace the rubber w/o damaging the edges of the rims. My experience w Superior Tire the last time they fixed a nail in one of my tires, was that they chipped some of the OEM rims paint on the outer edges, and it didn't look too good. Can an OEM BMW dealer prevent such damage? If I go w A/S option then can avoid need to replace the rubber since last 40K+.
Depends on what you're going to be doing with the car. If you're an average "don't really push it too much" driver then the A/S run flats will be fine. If you go to at least 1 track day per year to really learn how to drive, and the rest of the time you're a "spirited" kind of guy, then non R/F's ( the car can be specified with these and you'll get Mich Super Sports which are just excellent). With those you'll need another set of rims with winters mounted on them from Nov. to early April - and it won't cost an arm and a leg if you shop wisely. There'll be lots of wheel choices from great vendors once the car hits N.American dealerships and until the new "2 ER" forum expands, you'll find the best ones on the M3 forums under the appropriate "Wheels/Tire/Suspension" sub-forum.

I have NEVER kept R/F's on any BMW's that came with them....and never will. Absolutely hate them. And they weigh a ton.

Fwiw, good luck with your decision and the car!!!
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      02-11-2014, 09:20 PM   #11
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2 comments I've made before for Canadian orders:

1. If you order a/s tires they will be RFTs AND this deletes the hi-speed limiter, capping your top speed at around 130 mph rather than 155. Not that I plan to drive that fast, but it could affect resale.

2. There is no option to order the non-RFT and get the Michelin PSS. I asked my CA specifically about this and pointed out the difference withe US order guide - the Michelins are standard in the US. He told me that the PSS is not an option in Canada and the order guide confirms this.
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      02-11-2014, 10:19 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ramos View Post
Getting 10K miles out of your tires is an indication that you drive like a teenager and do burnouts at every traffic light, that you are replacing your tires way too soon, or a combination of the above.
Such an arrogant comment…

Bald summer tires fine in dry conditions? What are you even talking about? have you been drinking?
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      02-12-2014, 03:02 AM   #13
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Grooves (tread) in tires only serve to evacuate water. Yes bald tires work perfectly fine in dry conditions which is also why racing tires are slicks. More surface area of the contact patch.
My comment may have been arrogant, but you are ignorant and rude ..
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      02-12-2014, 05:25 AM   #14
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Summer tires, are a tad stiff in temperatures below 40 degrees, be careful.
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      02-12-2014, 07:41 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ramos View Post
Grooves (tread) in tires only serve to evacuate water. Yes bald tires work perfectly fine in dry conditions which is also why racing tires are slicks. More surface area of the contact patch.
My comment may have been arrogant, but you are ignorant and rude ..
Ramos I'm not going to say your wrong, but I want to push the topic in a friendly debate - maybe we will both change are opinions a little.

1) I used to run my 240sx to where the tires were smooth, though without ABS eventually flat spotting and carcass appearing rather soon limited lots of road time.

2) racing slick with their rubber compounds heat up in a way I wouldn't imagine any if few treaded road tired would or ever could, and yes on road racing track tires tread and sipes are combined for water evacuation and I would guess some mechanical traction effect.

3) not sure if mostly marketing or science but when I purchased Michelin XGT's for my 240sx, after a review on Rpad & Track there was discussion that the tread block design ( new at the time ) enabled dry traction and the styrene in the compound wet traction.

4) Hoosier and Yokohama make partial slick tire face designs and not sure if that is enough evidence that tire wear down beyond wear bars are superior for dry traction.

5) though I can imagine wear down to around wear bar level on hot road surface may create more surface contact, better then a new tire?

6) tires getting shaved for track use, traction or reduce squirm and increase roundness, ( my XGT were shaved by Michelin from the factory for perfect roundness)

Just some thoughts , sure a magazine had done a test on the subject somewhere. And when your having a good relationship with a car you can go through tires at a high rate that at times you run the tires to extreme wear levels)

Last edited by overcoil; 02-12-2014 at 11:49 AM..
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      02-12-2014, 12:39 PM   #16
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Well written post.
For the record, I never said bald tires are better than new tires, I said rather that they are perfectly fine well beyond the wear mark as long as conditions are dry.

This was all in response to the dude that replaces his summers every 10K miles
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      02-12-2014, 12:41 PM   #17
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I went with AS. Don't see myself pushing the car that far north of 100mph, and I want to get a set of 19s, which I will put summer tires on.

As someone who lives in New York, I didn't want to get summers and then a different set of rims and tires for the winter months AND a set of 19s with another set of tires, if I wanted them (which I do).
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      02-12-2014, 01:05 PM   #18
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Im getting A/S with stock wheel. after A/S wear out, i will get winter tire and 19" for summer. thats my plan.
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      02-12-2014, 01:57 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by notime View Post
1) I used to run my 240sx to where the tires were smooth, though without ABS eventually flat spotting and carcass appearing rather soon limited lots of road time.
If you bought a new tire and had it shaved to remove the siping (and drove only on dry roads), it would wear as well as a new tire for the limited amount of remaining tread. It's the heat cycling that a tire used all the way down to the cords that hurts the overall performance of the tire.

Quote:
Originally Posted by notime View Post
2) racing slick with their rubber compounds heat up in a way I wouldn't imagine any if few treaded road tired would or ever could, and yes on road racing track tires tread and sipes are combined for water evacuation and I would guess some mechanical traction effect.
Slicks let go with frightening unpredictability. Leaving some circumferential grooves and some siping allows for a more predictable loss of traction. Slicks are great for pros, but not very amusing to amateurs.

Quote:
Originally Posted by notime View Post
3) not sure if mostly marketing or science but when I purchased Michelin XGT's for my 240sx, after a review on Rpad & Track there was discussion that the tread block design ( new at the time ) enabled dry traction and the styrene in the compound wet traction.
Tread block design can lead to more predictable slip angles and better feedback, but siping (not circumferential grooves) is primarily for snow grip (which is why pure summer tires don't have sipes) and lateral grooves are for evacuating rain. Compound will certainly help with rain too.

Quote:
Originally Posted by notime View Post
4) Hoosier and Yokohama make partial slick tire face designs and not sure if that is enough evidence that tire wear down beyond wear bars are superior for dry traction.
DOT approved tires have to have three grooves. Even slicks tend to have a bore cut into the tread to indicate the amount of acceptable wear before replacement is needed. Think of it like an inverse tread bar.

Quote:
Originally Posted by notime View Post
5) though I can imagine wear down to around wear bar level on hot road surface may create more surface contact, better then a new tire?
Absolutely, assuming equivalent heat cycling.

Quote:
Originally Posted by notime View Post
6) tires getting shaved for track use, traction or reduce squirm and increase roundness, ( my XGT were shaved by Michelin from the factory for perfect roundness)
This can make a slight difference, but most cars weigh enough to sort this out on their own rather quickly.

Quote:
Originally Posted by notime View Post
Just some thoughts , sure a magazine had done a test on the subject somewhere. And when your having a good relationship with a car you can go through tires at a high rate that at times you run the tires to extreme wear levels)
Just continuing the thread jacking.
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      02-12-2014, 02:45 PM   #20
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A/S tires = jack of all trades, master of none!

Truest statement I've heard in regards to those tires, and I have a set of Kumho A/S tires on my car right now. IMHO, I think the way to go, as many have stated, is have a set of rims with high performance summer tires, and another set of rims with winter tires (preferably blizzaks).

Also, if anyone wants, search youtube on a/s tires vs winter, or a/s tires vs summer. Tons of reviews with tests etc.
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      02-12-2014, 03:04 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by riccappa View Post
A/S tires = jack of all trades, master of none!

Truest statement I've heard in regards to those tires, and I have a set of Kumho A/S tires on my car right now. IMHO, I think the way to go, as many have stated, is have a set of rims with high performance summer tires, and another set of rims with winter tires (preferably blizzaks).

Also, if anyone wants, search youtube on a/s tires vs winter, or a/s tires vs summer. Tons of reviews with tests etc.
Less true with the introduction of the latest Michelin A/S 3. I've got them on my daily now and they're better than a lot of pure summer tires I've had in terms of dry and wet handling and are still functional below 40 and in snow and ice. Not really germane to this discussion since they're not what's available on the 2er, but the old adage that A/S are good at nothing is a bit winged now.
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      02-12-2014, 03:44 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Red Bread View Post
Less true with the introduction of the latest Michelin A/S 3. I've got them on my daily now and they're better than a lot of pure summer tires I've had in terms of dry and wet handling and are still functional below 40 and in snow and ice. Not really germane to this discussion since they're not what's available on the 2er, but the old adage that A/S are good at nothing is a bit winged now.
From Tire Rack:
Tire Rack
2 weeks ago

"We are just a few weeks away from our formal winter test. However, winter's arrival in South Bend during December '13 provided our first opportunity to experience the Michelin Pilot Sport A/S 3 in the snow on our test track. On well-packed snow the Pilot Sport A/S 3 could not quite match the traction of its predecessor (Pilot Sport A/S Plus), and when driving through several inches of loose snow its acceleration, braking and cornering traction was noticeably challenged. This appears to be the trade-off for the Pilot Sport A/S 3's exceptional dry and wet performance."

There's a video on youtube about those, and they did get rave reviews in dry and wet conditions even in very cold temperatures, which is commendable, and they are the new benchmark, but they just can't substitute a good winter or snow tire.
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