Next Level Auto Brokers
BMW Garage BMW Meets Register Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Go Back   BMW M3 and BMW M4 Forum > BMW F80 M3 / F82 M4 Forum > M3/M4 versus...

Post Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      02-06-2014, 07:00 PM   #1
domd817
Private First Class
domd817's Avatar
79
Rep
180
Posts

Drives: '16 YMB F80 6MT
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Pittsburgh, PA

iTrader: (0)

M3/M4 vs. RS5

I am in the market for either a Rs5 or M3/M4. I love the high revving v8 in the Rs5 but dislike the s-tronic only option. I know the new m is going to handle much better than the Rs5. The major question is what to do in the winter. The car will be my dd so this poses some concern. I drive a 335xi couple 6 MT with the Dinan tune and its a blast in the winter. I feel like with some good winter tires, the LSD, and a manual gear box the m will do alright. I am going to drive the Rs5 tomorrow so my opinion might totally change. I am leaning heavily towards a M4. I'm a BMW guy at heart and the thought of leaving gives me an uneasy feeling.

Let me know what you guys think.
Thanks
Appreciate 0
      02-06-2014, 07:03 PM   #2
Bimmer4John
Bimmer Fan
Bimmer4John's Avatar
United_States
19
Rep
109
Posts

Drives: M4
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Los Angeles

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2015 BMW M4  [0.00]
2010 Audi S4  [6.00]
2007 BMW 335i  [0.00]
Did you see the earlier post of the M4 driving in the snow?
http://f80.bimmerpost.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=943355

The M3/M4 may get by in the snow, but you are still probably better off in the quatro RS5
Appreciate 0
      02-06-2014, 07:04 PM   #3
gblansten
Brigadier General
gblansten's Avatar
1910
Rep
4,171
Posts

Drives: 23 Tesla S Plaid
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Thick ascending limb

iTrader: (0)

RS5 is a beautiful but heavy player in the segment and we are already moving into the next gen for everyone. Audi will be releasing a lighter and meanerA/S5 next fall. The RS5 is a Johnny come lately at this point.
Appreciate 0
      02-06-2014, 07:29 PM   #4
Randy M
First Lieutenant
Randy M's Avatar
29
Rep
358
Posts

Drives: 2013 B302 LS
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: 'Merika

iTrader: (0)

I had an '08 RS4 and had test drove a RS5 a few months back. Audi fit and finish is up there as one of the best. The quality of materials, design, panel gap etc...love that part about Audi's. Then there is the driver experience, and the ownership experience.

Driver experience: Less than stellar. Both the RS4 and RS5 understeer, even with the torque vectoring I've found. Both engines are pretty much the same which means they have zero torque and you have to wind them out to get any sort of performance out of them. And both cars are very heavy which makes their understeering tendencies even worse. Murder on the front brakes and tires as well.

Ownership experience: I can't speak of the RS5 but with the RS4 I needed new tires and brake pads at 20K. My DRC suspension blew the front shocks and Audi didn't want to cover them. That took a poison pen letter to the regional rep to get that fixed. The 4.2 FSI engine is also notorious for carbon buildup in the intake. Audi will not cover the cleaning even though their patent filing state that this is a potential problem with their FSI direct injection design. Audi is owned by Volkswagen, as is Porsche. Both make it very tough on the owner in regard to cover anything under warranty. They try to weasel out of covering anything.
__________________
'11 Porsche GT3 (Sold)
Appreciate 0
      02-06-2014, 07:37 PM   #5
LDSM
Captain
LDSM's Avatar
United_States
343
Rep
686
Posts

Drives: ...
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: ...

iTrader: (0)

Don't underestimate the improvement that winter tires offer during snow.

A RWD car with snow tires will outperform an AWD car on all-season tires....of course an AWD car with snow tires trumps all.

Think about how often you'll actually be in need of AWD, 20-30% of the year maybe, and 70-80% of that time you'll have an AWD system that's heavier and less fuel efficient

Appreciate 1
      02-06-2014, 07:41 PM   #6
domd817
Private First Class
domd817's Avatar
79
Rep
180
Posts

Drives: '16 YMB F80 6MT
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Pittsburgh, PA

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rated R View Post
I had an '08 RS4 and had test drove a RS5 a few months back. Audi fit and finish is up there as one of the best. The quality of materials, design, panel gap etc...love that part about Audi's. Then there is the driver experience, and the ownership experience.

Driver experience: Less than stellar. Both the RS4 and RS5 understeer, even with the torque vectoring I've found. Both engines are pretty much the same which means they have zero torque and you have to wind them out to get any sort of performance out of them. And both cars are very heavy which makes their understeering tendencies even worse. Murder on the front brakes and tires as well.

Ownership experience: I can't speak of the RS5 but with the RS4 I needed new tires and brake pads at 20K. My DRC suspension blew the front shocks and Audi didn't want to cover them. That took a poison pen letter to the regional rep to get that fixed. The 4.2 FSI engine is also notorious for carbon buildup in the intake. Audi will not cover the cleaning even though their patent filing state that this is a potential problem with their FSI direct injection design. Audi is owned by Volkswagen, as is Porsche. Both make it very tough on the owner in regard to cover anything under warranty. They try to weasel out of covering anything.
Thanks for the input. My brother has a s4 with the v6T engine and it even gives him fits. I will say the dealer has been very helpful though. The weight of the car is definitely noticeable but I do like winding the engine out. Specially the sound the rs would have with an AWE exhaust.
Appreciate 0
      02-06-2014, 07:42 PM   #7
/// M sa
Major
/// M sa's Avatar
240
Rep
1,418
Posts

Drives: F80 MG
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Delmarva

iTrader: (0)

Can't go wrong with RS5 in PA with the winters you guys get. Just way too heavy for my taste and I need a sedan so M3 is my choice.
Appreciate 0
      02-06-2014, 07:44 PM   #8
BMWJ
Lieutenant
61
Rep
480
Posts

Drives: 2011 E92 M3
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: NY

iTrader: (0)

Wonder what the Audi forums think.....?
Appreciate 0
      02-06-2014, 07:47 PM   #9
RealStig
Banned
RealStig's Avatar
51
Rep
502
Posts

Drives: M3
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: NJ

iTrader: (0)

I dont understand the winter argument. RS5 is a performance car and it comes with summer tires no? How is the AWD going to help in snow with summer tires? Put on a set of cheap winter tires on the M3, it will destroy RS5 in snow.
Appreciate 0
      02-06-2014, 07:47 PM   #10
domd817
Private First Class
domd817's Avatar
79
Rep
180
Posts

Drives: '16 YMB F80 6MT
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Pittsburgh, PA

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by elevenfive View Post
Don't underestimate the improvement that winter tires offer during snow.

A RWD car with snow tires will outperform an AWD car on all-season tires....of course an AWD car with snow tires trumps all.

Think about how often you'll actually be in need of AWD, 20-30% of the year maybe, and 70-80% of that time you'll have an AWD system that's heavier and less fuel efficient

I have never driven a rear wheel car with winter tires in the snow. I have some friends that have E classes, 7 series, etc.. that go all year round with no problems. I would just have to make other arrangements if there's a big storm coming plus the weight savings and fuel efficiently of a RWD is a plus. I do feel that the amount of money saved in fuel will be depleted after shredding through rear tire on the reg.
Appreciate 0
      02-06-2014, 07:54 PM   #11
/// M sa
Major
/// M sa's Avatar
240
Rep
1,418
Posts

Drives: F80 MG
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Delmarva

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by RealStig View Post
I dont understand the winter argument. RS5 is a performance car and it comes with summer tires no? How is the AWD going to help in snow with summer tires? Put on a set of cheap winter tires on the M3, it will destroy RS5 in snow.
Really? WTF did I just read. I have an e90 x drive and GTR, GTR has the all season tires and my e90 x drive is on blizzaks and the x drive is a tank in snow. Snow tires on a rear wheel drive vs AWD with snow tires is night and day. Someone that can afford the RS5 won't have any issues dishing out $$ for winter tires.
Appreciate 0
      02-06-2014, 08:09 PM   #12
domd817
Private First Class
domd817's Avatar
79
Rep
180
Posts

Drives: '16 YMB F80 6MT
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Pittsburgh, PA

iTrader: (0)

I can't say I agree with a M3 destroying an RS5 in the snow, regardless of the winter tire option for either. That just seems unrealistic.
Appreciate 0
      02-06-2014, 08:10 PM   #13
Nex
Second Lieutenant
Canada
22
Rep
290
Posts

Drives: .
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rated R View Post
I had an '08 RS4 and had test drove a RS5 a few months back. Audi fit and finish is up there as one of the best. The quality of materials, design, panel gap etc...love that part about Audi's. Then there is the driver experience, and the ownership experience.

Driver experience: Less than stellar. Both the RS4 and RS5 understeer, even with the torque vectoring I've found. Both engines are pretty much the same which means they have zero torque and you have to wind them out to get any sort of performance out of them. And both cars are very heavy which makes their understeering tendencies even worse. Murder on the front brakes and tires as well.

Ownership experience: I can't speak of the RS5 but with the RS4 I needed new tires and brake pads at 20K. My DRC suspension blew the front shocks and Audi didn't want to cover them. That took a poison pen letter to the regional rep to get that fixed. The 4.2 FSI engine is also notorious for carbon buildup in the intake. Audi will not cover the cleaning even though their patent filing state that this is a potential problem with their FSI direct injection design. Audi is owned by Volkswagen, as is Porsche. Both make it very tough on the owner in regard to cover anything under warranty. They try to weasel out of covering anything.
As a current RS5 owner, the driver experience is pretty much spot on.
As for ownership history. So far, the RS5 has been problem free.(knock on wood).
The only problem with either car in heavy snow is ground clearance. This was just yesterday.
Appreciate 0
      02-06-2014, 08:25 PM   #14
/// M sa
Major
/// M sa's Avatar
240
Rep
1,418
Posts

Drives: F80 MG
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Delmarva

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nex View Post
As a current RS5 owner, the driver experience is pretty much spot on.
As for ownership history. So far, the RS5 has been problem free.(knock on wood).
The only problem with either car in heavy snow is ground clearance. This was just yesterday.
Unless you have a jeep most cars will have a clearance issue with snow like that.
Appreciate 0
      02-06-2014, 08:36 PM   #15
Nex
Second Lieutenant
Canada
22
Rep
290
Posts

Drives: .
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by //M sa View Post
Unless you have a jeep most cars will have a clearance issue with snow like that.
Yup, pretty much. However, the RS and the M are all a little lower than their regular counterparts, lowering their ground clearance even further.
When it comes down to it, AWD with winter tires will always give you better traction off the line than a RWD with winter tires.
When the snow gets really deep, the car just becomes a snowplow and all bets are off. Doesn't matter what car you have.
Here's a pic of my Evo X with winter tires stuck in the snow.
Appreciate 0
      02-06-2014, 09:04 PM   #16
paddy335
Major
66
Rep
1,131
Posts

Drives: M140i;X5 40d
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: New Zealand

iTrader: (0)

The RS5 is a bloated, out-dated boat. Looks and sounds nice though. If that's your thing.

I'd be waiting for the M3/4 and getting a decent set of winter wheels/tyres if the snow is a concern.
Appreciate 0
      02-06-2014, 09:16 PM   #17
Technic
Lieutenant General
Technic's Avatar
2258
Rep
12,985
Posts

Drives: 2021 i3S, 2024 i4 M50
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Florida

iTrader: (18)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rated R View Post
Audi is owned by Volkswagen, as is Porsche. Both make it very tough on the owner in regard to cover anything under warranty. They try to weasel out of covering anything.
My last VW had the worst reliablility of any car that I have ever owned in the last 30 years.

No more VW of any kind.
Appreciate 0
      02-06-2014, 09:26 PM   #18
Race_Doc11
Lieutenant Colonel
Race_Doc11's Avatar
446
Rep
1,626
Posts

Drives: 2023 G82 M4
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: USA

iTrader: (1)

Garage List
2023 BMW G82 M4  [0.00]
2018 F80 M3  [10.00]
2013 Audi RS5 (Sold)  [10.00]
2008 E93 M3 (Sold)  [10.00]
As another owner of both RS5 (and E93 M3) the RS5 is useless with summer tires in the snow and winter tires or all season are a must.
The RS5 and the new M3/M4 are 2 different cars the M will have higher torque at low RPMs while the RS5 is a high rev engine which is in my opinion is more fun. When it comes to handling I'm sure it will be neck to neck. The handling of the RS5 is breath taking if you will be brave enough to push the car .
The RS5 has no adaptive suspension and the ride is rough and that will give the M an advantage when it comes to the comfort level.
The RS5 pulls much faster than my E93 (don't know about the E92) and since I got H&R sways installed I don't drive the M at all. At the beginning my plan was to get the RS5 until the ZCP package is offered for the M4 (2-3 years) but now I'm selling the M3 and keeping the RS5.
Don't make you mind until you drive both. With either cars you will not lose and for the winter just get a winter tires for the one you end up buying.
Best of luck!
Appreciate 0
      02-06-2014, 09:49 PM   #19
ZGM3
Private First Class
46
Rep
164
Posts

Drives: bmw
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: california

iTrader: (0)

The car may be near the end of its life-cycle, but it is STILL one of the most beautiful coupes on the road. Quarttro is considered by most to be the best all wheel system in the world and it is amazing to have the confidence when driving in bad conditions.

EXCEPT don't try this with Quarttro:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HyOMskK3A2o

As stated before the major drawbacks are the excessive weight, the lack of driver to car feel and input, and the lack of a manual transmission. Plenty of people track the RS5 and have a blast while doing it (you can get on the gas much earlier in the apex than in a rrd). If you go this route be sure to look at getting the Eurocode Alu Kreuz (helps structural rigidity and stiffens up the steering feel) and a set of sways to "help" with the understeer issue.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RealStig View Post
I dont understand the winter argument. RS5 is a performance car and it comes with summer tires no? How is the AWD going to help in snow with summer tires? Put on a set of cheap winter tires on the M3, it will destroy RS5 in snow.
You are joking right? Thats like saying because my car comes with all seasons but I track it it every other month that i must keep my all season tire on the car? If you spend over $75k for the car you can most likly afford $1200 on a winter wheel and tire setup.

Quote:
Originally Posted by domd817 View Post
My brother has a s4 with the v6T engine and it even gives him fits.
What type of fits? The V6 Supercharged engine is a beautiful thing (especially when mated to a manual transmission). Around 340 Hp and tons of torque. Smooth and powerful., not to mention there are a few great performance upgrades for this engine that add a ton more HP and Torque for only a couple grand.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rated R View Post
Audi is owned by Volkswagen, as is Porsche. Both make it very tough on the owner in regard to cover anything under warranty. They try to weasel out of covering anything.
This is only partially true from experiences that I read on the Audi forums, but very few and far between, and ONLY when and an upgraded aftermarket part could easily be the culprit in the failure. I have never had this issue with any of my Audi's and I have owned 4 with mods.
Appreciate 0
      02-06-2014, 10:22 PM   #20
Chill72
Banned
Chill72's Avatar
United_States
110
Rep
896
Posts

Drives: 10 E92 M3 (RIP)
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Germany

iTrader: (0)

Here are my thoughts on RS5 from a previous thread:

"I too went to look at RS5 the other day but I came away underwhelmed. I currently have 03 A4 and I just got rid of E92 M3 which I drove for nearly four years. Since I'm a car guy I thought I'll get RS5 while I wait for LCI updated M4.

I do agree that RS5 looks awesome and sounds awesome as well. I test drove a fully loaded model. That's were pros end for me. Interior is ok, nothing special, dashboard is right out of A5 the only things RS5 adds to distinguish it form A5 is a steering wheel (very nice) and shifter. Materials used for dashboard felt very cheap especially hard plastic in front of the passenger. My old Audi has higher quality materials inside it for instance. The back seats are also useless, once I set my seat for comfort (I'm 6' 2") I couldn't fit anybody back there. Front seats are also not as good as M3's, no adjustable side bolsters and they felt pretty hard for such an expensive car. Audi's DCT was also disappointing, there was a delay between paddle shifter input and gear change and I constantly would pull turn signal/wiper/hi-beam stalks instead of paddles...this was annoying. Engine, while awesome sounding doesn't have the urgency S65 has. Last, throttle response wasn't there either. This car was worth about $55K to me and not $80K they want for it.

After I was done with RS5 I immediately put a deposit down on a new M4."
Appreciate 0
      02-06-2014, 10:56 PM   #21
bmwluvr24
Driving Mika all over California.....
bmwluvr24's Avatar
United_States
57
Rep
619
Posts

Drives: 2008 E60 M5
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: San Diego, CA

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by racedoc11 View Post
As another owner of both RS5 (and E93 M3) the RS5 is useless with summer tires in the snow and winter tires or all season are a must.
The RS5 and the new M3/M4 are 2 different cars the M will have higher torque at low RPMs while the RS5 is a high rev engine which is in my opinion is more fun. When it comes to handling I'm sure it will be neck to neck. The handling of the RS5 is breath taking if you will be brave enough to push the car .
The RS5 has no adaptive suspension and the ride is rough and that will give the M an advantage when it comes to the comfort level.
The RS5 pulls much faster than my E93 (don't know about the E92) and since I got H&R sways installed I don't drive the M at all. At the beginning my plan was to get the RS5 until the ZCP package is offered for the M4 (2-3 years) but now I'm selling the M3 and keeping the RS5.
Don't make you mind until you drive both. With either cars you will not lose and for the winter just get a winter tires for the one you end up buying.
Best of luck!
That is SEXY!!!!! Good job brother!
__________________
2008 E60 M5 Sepang Bronze Metallic, gloss black grills and gills, LED side markers, 12mm spacers all around, stud conversion kit, custom exhaust with Magnaflow mufflers and x-pipe.
Appreciate 0
      02-06-2014, 11:12 PM   #22
Randy M
First Lieutenant
Randy M's Avatar
29
Rep
358
Posts

Drives: 2013 B302 LS
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: 'Merika

iTrader: (0)

Headroom (at least for me) was lacking in the RS5 with the standard glass sunroof. One fairly large reason why I'm going with the M4 and it's carbon roof.
__________________
'11 Porsche GT3 (Sold)
Appreciate 0
Post Reply

Bookmarks

Tags
m3 vs rs5, m4 vs rs5

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 09:17 AM.




f80post
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST