[FSE23]

I haven't introduced myself yet.
I'm a newbie on this forum however I could have been here some time ago as E92 owner, but certainly I wasn't an active member.
I drive E92 335i for a long time so I decided to change my lovely car to something new. Initially I wanted a new 4xx but could not resist such a great deal for 335D and this is exactly what I went for.

I read here a lot of great deals you are having and I wonder if my dealer is not playing some games.
I got my invoice so complicated that I have no idea what is going on there. My financial documents where not given to me at all yet for some reasons. Monthly payment is a kind of mystery how these were calculated however comes hire than BMW website suggested. When I was trying to get an explanation they were giving me some rubbish but none of them was actually satisfactory to me.

I wonder how you calculate your discount. Is it a total, let's say 6-8k you got including dealer contribution? I figured it a bit different way but I don't know if this is a correct one. Once my car spec comes about 49k I got my deposit and dealer contribution together up to about 12k so I left with 37k amount of credit. Adding my deposit to it , it would give me a total price and than I can see what % of discount I got. Am I right? Could you correct me? I appreciate your help.

[dopper99]

Sounds about right to me...

List price - credit cost + deposit

so if your deposit was £3K it would be:

£49K - £37K + £3K = £9K discount I think

So discount would be around 18% for a £3K deposit.

[brommy]

Doesn't your quote give a price for the car before credit and a total you will actually pay (including credit)?

I would work out the discount as RRP list price minus the before credit price. In my mind, whether the finance rate is good or not is another question and not directly related to the discount.

Just to add - discounts on a 335d are very good at the moment.

[brommy]

Originally Posted by dopper99

Sounds about right to me...

List price - credit cost + deposit

so if your deposit was £3K it would be:

£49K - £37K + £3K = £9K discount I think

So discount would be around 18% for a £3K deposit.

If those are the figures before credit interest charges, I think piono can do better. Too late to haggle?

[moonshine]

I would calculate discount as list price (say £49000) less cash price (say £39700) = £9300.
Then discount (£9300) / list price (£49000) = 18.9%
The deposit shouldn't come into the equation. Figures are for illustration.

[moonshine]

In the OP example, assume £49k list - cash price (40k based on OP statement he had £37k to finance with a £3k deposit.
Discount is £9000 (18.3%)

To me, those figures / % don't seem far off for a touring.
There are slightly larger discounts (500) off saloons compared to touring and the discount figure maxs out. At between 9-10k. The 20.8% discounts quoted are based on a max £10k discount against a £48k saloon car. If you change to a touring, discount falls to around £9k and if your price rises to £49k the % discount falls to 18.3%

[Tengocity]

Originally Posted by moonshine

In the OP example, assume £49k list - cash price (40k based on OP statement he had £37k to finance with a £3k deposit.
Discount is £9000 (18.3%)

To me, those figures / % don't seem far off for a touring.
There are slightly larger discounts (500) off saloons compared to touring and the discount figure maxs out. At between 9-10k. The 20.8% discounts quoted are based on a max £10k discount against a £48k saloon car. If you change to a touring, discount falls to around £9k and if your price rises to £49k the % discount falls to 18.3%

I'd agree with your ways of doing it. It's worth bearing in mind that as you load the car with extras then the overall percentage discount could appear to fall. This is because the discount is made up of two parts:

1) BMW deposit contribution (which is a fixed amount depending on the model)
2) Dealer discount coming from their margin (which will probs be a percentage based on the cost of the car after BMW contribution)

So the more you spend on extras then more the dealer discount rate will dilute the overall rate. eg.

List price 45k
BMW deposit contribution 4k
dealer discount rate 5% of £41k=£4.1k
your total discount = £8.1k
your price = £38950 = 18% discount

List price 50k
BMW deposit contribution 4k
dealer discount rate 5% of £45k=£4.5k
your total discount = £8.6k
your price = £43750 = 17.2% discount

List price 55k
BMW deposit contribution 4k
dealer discount rate 5% of £51k=£5.1k
your total discount = £9.1k
your price = £45900 = 16.5% discount

This is just an example and you may or may not be able to get more than 5% from the dealer, depending on how desperate they are for the sale. Maybe you could negotiate a higher discount if you order more extras, but most add some to start with, then negotiate, agree a deal. Then come on here, decide they need another £5k of extras and then call their dealer and add them (either at full price, or at original rate of discount!)

[DazC]

If you've achieved an 18% discount then that's pretty good IMO and generally in line with what most have achieved.

[FSE23]

Thank you for such quick reply.
The invoice looks a bit weird to me whit a few things added than subtracted ....and I have never seen the financial documents, only have been given quotes verbally. I'm going to have a serious talk with a manager and I'll find out what I can do with it. However my discount does not look so good. I wish I had read this forum before ordering

[NISFAN]

Originally Posted by Tengocity

I'd agree with your ways of doing it. It's worth bearing in mind that as you load the car with extras then the overall percentage discount could appear to fall. This is because the discount is made up of two parts:

1) BMW deposit contribution (which is a fixed amount depending on the model)
2) Dealer discount coming from their margin (which will probs be a percentage based on the cost of the car after BMW contribution)

So the more you spend on extras then more the dealer discount rate will dilute the overall rate. eg.

List price 45k
BMW deposit contribution 4k
dealer discount rate 5% of £41k=£4.1k
your total discount = £8.1k
your price = £38950 = 18% discount

List price 50k
BMW deposit contribution 4k
dealer discount rate 5% of £45k=£4.5k
your total discount = £8.6k
your price = £43750 = 17.2% discount

List price 55k
BMW deposit contribution 4k
dealer discount rate 5% of £51k=£5.1k
your total discount = £9.1k
your price = £45900 = 16.5% discount

This is just an example and you may or may not be able to get more than 5% from the dealer, depending on how desperate they are for the sale. Maybe you could negotiate a higher discount if you order more extras, but most add some to start with, then negotiate, agree a deal. Then come on here, decide they need another £5k of extras and then call their dealer and add them (either at full price, or at original rate of discount!)

All true, but.......the dealer has more morgin in the extras, so a fully loaded car is easier to get the high discounts over a lower spec one.

[moonshine]

your PCP quote should have info as follows (for a 4yr PCP - approx figures)

a) Cash price (inc VAT) (this is the discounted price) (say £40k)
b) less initial rentals / deposit (say 3k)
c) balance of cash price / amount of credit (say 37k)
d) add interest charges (estimate £6k)
e) first installment £0
f) second installment...(blah - due at end) £10
g) Total charge for Credit (d+e+f) £6010
h) balance payable (c+g) - £43010
i) Total amount payable (b+h) - £46010

47 monthly rentals £547(calculated from here - http://www.pcpcal.co.uk)
Optional final rental - estimate £16,500 & purchase fee (£10)

[Tengocity]

Originally Posted by NISFAN

All true, but.......the dealer has more morgin in the extras, so a fully loaded car is easier to get the high discounts over a lower spec one.

Yes that may be true, which is why I tried to mention at the end that you should use that in your negotiations, rather than pile on full price extras afterwards!

I'm not sure the margin itself is higher on extras, mainly because I don't find that many salesman really trying to upsell on the spec extras, they are more interested in the car itself, and then the extras like insurances and crap like that. However that may be because I would be more likely to start with well specced car in the first place.

[NISFAN]

Originally Posted by Tengocity

Yes that may be true, which is why I tried to mention at the end that you should use that in your negotiations, rather than pile on full price extras afterwards!

I'm not sure the margin itself is higher on extras, mainly because I don't find that many salesman really trying to upsell on the spec extras, they are more interested in the car itself, and then the extras like insurances and crap like that. However that may be because I would be more likely to start with well specced car in the first place.

Ah....but that is because....contrary to popular belief, salesmen don't get extra commission on turn over. Most car dealers operate the same commission bands structure. Number of cars is the decider. The exception is, of course, the dealer added extras. these gain additional commission... tyre insurance, GAP, special super duper polish, etc. So a salesman selling 10 bog standard mini ones will get the same commission as the guy selling 10 fully loaded M6's.

[Tengocity]

Originally Posted by NISFAN

Ah....but that is because....contrary to popular belief, salesmen don't get extra commission on turn over. Most car dealers operate the same commission bands structure. Number of cars is the decider. The exception is, of course, the dealer added extras. these gain additional commission... tyre insurance, GAP, special super duper polish, etc. So a salesman selling 10 bog standard mini ones will get the same commission as the guy selling 10 fully loaded M6's.

That's a good point, would be great to know exactly how they're incentivised, so you can play the game as well they do. There must be something in there to ensure that they don't just give away max discount all the time just to get the sale? Some sort of incentive to get the salesman to encourage sir into a 330 rather than a 320 for example would surely makes sense too!

[greyt]

Originally Posted by piono

I haven't introduced myself yet.
I'm a newbie on this forum however I could have been here some time ago as E92 owner, but certainly I wasn't an active member.
I drive E92 335i for a long time so I decided to change my lovely car to something new. Initially I wanted a new 4xx but could not resist such a great deal for 335D and this is exactly what I went for.

I read here a lot of great deals you are having and I wonder if my dealer is not playing some games.
I got my invoice so complicated that I have no idea what is going on there. My financial documents where not given to me at all yet for some reasons. Monthly payment is a kind of mystery how these were calculated however comes hire than BMW website suggested. When I was trying to get an explanation they were giving me some rubbish but none of them was actually satisfactory to me.

I wonder how you calculate your discount. Is it a total, let's say 6-8k you got including dealer contribution? I figured it a bit different way but I don't know if this is a correct one. Once my car spec comes about 49k I got my deposit and dealer contribution together up to about 12k so I left with 37k amount of credit. Adding my deposit to it , it would give me a total price and than I can see what % of discount I got. Am I right? Could you correct me? I appreciate your help.

You are in a similar position to me. I have a 335D E92 at the moment and wanted a 435D. However the 335D discount on the F30 made me change my mind and that is what I now have on order.

If you PM me your details I can email you my 335D quote & invoice so you get an idea of what you should be working to. My discount is around 19% on a well specced 335D.

[Irnbrukid]

To calculate the correct discount (%) you need to take the 'on the road' costs out. Delivery, road tax & first reg fee (as these cant be discounted), then add them back in once you have done your sums

Just post your spec or list price and discount price, then we will tell you %

[FSE23]

I talked to the dealer - deal is done and this is what you signed - this is the answer I got from them. I understand it very well from their point of view..... But is not a Customer who is always right??
My negotiations were very poor I recon. All I got is 10-11% on well spec car.
So my thought are to talk to them the last time and try to achieve anything but it looks like it is "no go" for them.
I think I have an option to cancel my order and probably loose the cash deposit 1k I made (- but is it really what they and I want?) and try another dealer with an aim to achieve, which would delay my delivery as well as it would give me a higher APR but it is still a couple of grand to save, or....do nothing.
Dealer does not seem to have any flexibility after signing the deal but it would not keep a customer happy at all

[nordberg]

Threaten to cancel. They'll probably change their tune then.... I'm sure they'd rather have a sale at a higher discount rather than no sale...

[Tengocity]

If you can make a bigger saving elsewhere then you've nothing to lose by threatening to walk away unless they renegotiate.

[FSE23]

That is what I thought, I don't have better deal yet but I'm going to start a new search.
I think some flexibility and 50/50 deal on what was not achieved would be a good solution but...

[brommy]

Have you checked the price for your spec car on broker sites? Five minutes at two or three broker sites should see discounts of around 18%. Drivethedeal were the cheapest last time I checked. That should be your starting point for negotiations, in my opinion. Threaten to cancel if your dealer doesn't match the lowest broker price you can find. If you do cancel your current order, based on your current discount of less than 11%, a PM to TRL listing your spec for a quote will save you well in excess of £1000.

[Irnbrukid]

Great deals on drivethedeal check it out, could be well worth giving up your deposit with the savings to be had.