[Tengocity]

http://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/in...nd-losers-2013

As pointed out in the article, the mini is stand-alone and BMW doesn't have anything in its current line-up to battle the A1, but nevertheless I think this is the first time I can recall that Audi have overtaken BMW. Must be a bit of a concern given that most BMW models are reasonably fresh, and Audi have the A4 getting on a bit.

Mini is down a bit, but does have the new model coming out.

Would be good to see the figures for the individual segments to understand which models are doing well v the competition.

Nissan should give other car manufacturers some belief that if you produce the right products then you can turn things round.

All credit to Audi on their marketing though... they've stolen the ground BMW had in the 80's and 90's on clever advertising that made the brand the coolest around. Current BMW advertising is pretty bland. Thank god the product itself is still the best.

[M4dski11z]

I remember reading a while back about a big shift of fleet company cars from the 3 series to the a4. The a4 becoming the rep mobile of choice over the past few years. I can imagine this helped the market share no end.

[Rich9600]

A few bad winters pushes AWD and Quatro has the pedigree...

I got close to an A5 Sportback, but I new I'd regret it as late model car. It felt dated compared to the F30 and the technology was lacking. But, looks wise it beats the 3GT hands down, in my opinion. Also, steering was worse than the F30, even in with the F30 in comfort!

The Audi dealer was pushing hard for the sale, saying that once they got a customer they never lost one...

Audi do good looking cars in every segment and have a 4 brand in group share to reduce the costs by filtering down kit. The S Line trim kit pack brings great aesthetic gains to all the models, the Xenons being a key gain to my mind.

Oh, they fit folding rear seats as standard too...

However, apparently, you must wear large shiny watch and tailgate like a C*** so the driver in front can see that large shiny watch...

[teaston]

This is good news for us BMW buyers, it should mean BMW prices get more competitive and/or they will add extra standard equipment.

@Rich9600 i think BMW have standard equipment that's missing from Audis, a mate has a 2 year old TT S Line and it does not have parking sensors at all! neither does another mates brand new Merc A Class AMG, which really shocked me!

[dazzapb]

Interesting news. To be honest I don't think its bad news for BMW. Audi's seem very common on the roads and not very exclusive... both premium brands. I imagine in the credit fueled nougties Audi/BMW were selling loads but perhaps numbers are down now? I recall the 3 outselling the Mondeo for a short period. I doubt this is the case now

[dopper99]

Audi may have more sales but that doesn't mean their cars are any better.
Prob just have a better marketing department.

[dazzapb]

Audi is part of the VAG group? So I imagine their profits etc must be massive from sharing all the plaforms and then older models go to Seat etc?

[Tengocity]

I agree that Audi have a few models that make a lot more sense to me. An A5 sportback equivalent would have been one, 3GT not my cup of tea either. Also, the A7 is a bit more reasonable price and size of car than a 6 series gran coupe.

The TT makes much more sense to most people than a Z4 too (wrongly!)

[davyk31]

Why do you think BMW are doing mega discounts on the 3 Series in particular, they realise they need to shift more metal.

As said above bad winters have harmed BMW and Merc, obviously Xdrive is trying to address that but its not on all models and extra cost is a further factor.

[Rich9600]

Originally Posted by teaston

This is good news for us BMW buyers, it should mean BMW prices get more competitive and/or they will add extra standard equipment.

@Rich9600 i think BMW have standard equipment that's missing from Audis, a mate has a 2 year old TT S Line and it does not have parking sensors at all! neither does another mates brand new Merc A Class AMG, which really shocked me!

Agreed, I was initially looking at 6 month old cars. In this region there were very few Audis that had the kit I required compared to BMW's. Greater than 5:1 in favour of BMW.

I seem to remember that much of the configuration of options required options you didn't always want. So, unofficial packs...

Kitting up a new car to a similar levels the Audi cost more, but discounts were more easily achievable. The A5 is an ageing car now, so I figured this was pushing the ease of discount.

My better half really liked the lines of the A5 Sportback, it was the good looking hatch that tempted me. As I've said, shame about the BMW GT's. They just don't work for me.

[focal]

in N.A. the Audi is the only game for a MT, AWD with a basic engine option. although, the new A3 sedan is AT only or I would have waited for it.

in the end, the drive of the BMW is still superior, but the near luxury market is definitely marketed a lot better by Audi currently.

driven by the masses at 5/10th's of their potential, it's a great way to coddle your self as you drive home. Sporty driving is just not a reality in bumper to bumper traffic, speeding cams and just age/maturity. The masses with million (pound) homes, consider the 40-50k cars as just a minimal expense. Marketing, dealer service and perceived value win the day for most consumers.

[F30AM]

So what? The cars still drive like pooh!

[MarkG_M5Comp]

Originally Posted by F30AM

So what? The cars still drive like pooh!

Indeed.

[Steve C]

Bmw is a better car imo but generally Audi is a better looking car and better marketed = more sales.

[F30AM]

Originally Posted by Steve C

Bmw is a better car imo but generally Audi is a better looking car and better marketed = more sales.

Nonsense. The are not better looking IMO. The A1 looks deformed, the A3 looks bland, the A4 looks like a pregnant duck, the A5 Sportback is out of proportion, etc, etc. Only the Q3 and Q5 look half deecent if you are into that kind of vehicle.

It's that bloody gaping Grille which makes me want to kick it in to improve it.

[Proftinkerpot]

Given that the majority of sales will be on 2wd cars, I suspect a lot of people "fear" rear wheel drive handling especially in winter conditions and so opt for Audi as opposed to BMW or Mercedes.

[F30AM]

Originally Posted by Proftinkerpot

Given that the majority of sales will be on 2wd cars, I suspect a lot of people "fear" rear wheel drive handling especially in winter conditions and so opt for Audi as opposed to BMW or Mercedes.

RWD or a car with RWD bias is the best. BUT, a hot hatch with FWD properly done like the VW Mk7 Golf GTI with performance pack is also amazing. The VW Mk7 Golf R might also be a sterling car. Better than any equivalent Audi.

[Steve C]

Originally Posted by F30AM

Nonsense. The are not better looking IMO. The A1 looks deformed, the A3 looks bland, the A4 looks like a pregnant duck, the A5 Sportback is out of proportion, etc, etc. Only the Q3 and Q5 look half deecent if you are into that kind of vehicle.

As you said, looks are all about personal opinion. All the Audi owners I know have bought it because they like the way it looks. [I think we can all agree that they didn't buy it for how it drives.]

[Steve C]

Originally Posted by Proftinkerpot

Given that the majority of sales will be on 2wd cars, I suspect a lot of people "fear" rear wheel drive handling especially in winter conditions and so opt for Audi as opposed to BMW or Mercedes.

Agreed, one of our neighbours crashed her BMW on slippery stuff and has had non-RWD cars since (rightly or wrongly, but she is a crap driver!).

[F30AM]

Originally Posted by Steve C

As you said, looks are all about personal opinion. All the Audi owners I know have bought it because they like the way it looks. [I think we can all agree that they didn't buy it for how it drives.]

Audi's look bland from the side, bland from the rear, vile and vulgar from the front and drive like sh!t!. Says lots about their owners does it not?

[F30AM]

Out of the 3 German Premium Brands, Mercedes Benz is the car most people (and Munich taxi drivers) aspire to worldwide, followed by BMW and then Audi.

40,000 Frenchman can't be wrong! (It's an expression from the French Revolution for those not in the know!).

[davethefish]

i was borderline looking at audi/merc last year
but i was looks and driving pleasure that sold me on another 3 series.

BMW used to have a reputation for the finest engines in the world,
(basically built on their straight six petrols)

but what with the swirl flap failures and engine write offs in the E46
and the last E90 diesel i had, the timing chains and sprockets failed twice within 2 years!
first lot cost me near £5,000 in repairs on a 3 year old car, second lot done under 2 year parts warranty.

i lost a lot of confidence in bmw engines especially diesel hence the petrol i now have.

i think they lost a lot of ground on reliability there,
and the press has them well down in an engine reliability survey way behind mercedes.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/motoring/...ty-survey.html