[e92josh]

Hi...

I'm a BMW noob, more or less. I have had my 328i for about a year now and I'm obsessed with suspension and handling.

My question is regarding what can be done to further extend my performance suspension.

At current, I have the following setup:

Sport Package w/ suspension addition from factory (sorry if this is called something else)
Eibach front/rear anti sway bar +2-5MM over OEM
All new bushings
H&R Sport springs
5/10MM spacers
OEM struts/shocks (I plan on upgrading when these go out and/or if I decide to go to coil over setup)
Dinan front upper strut bar
StopTech rotors/Hawk Pads


Now, I come from the Honda world where control arms would be next; however, I doubt I would need that with this application being a 2009 and pretty modern, right?

So, questions:

Although I do not want to open a debate of performance, I've found ONE (minus ACS?) rear upper strut bar, by Cusco seen here: http://www.**********s.com/Cusco-Rea...-BM5-526-A.htm

Yes, I've read debates over function - please, leave that aside. Would that above strut bar even mount/install? The mounting points seem to not make sense with the trunk of the car around the rear struts. So, do you think it's a typo or a mistake? Or do they /really/ make that for the e92 non-M?

What else could I do for suspension? I mean, minus the coilovers which I'm slightly torn on and throwing a full cage in?

I would love any opinions or suggestions.

And since a.) this is a visual forum and b.) we all love to show off, I've thrown a pic of my current setup:



Edit: not sure why the URL was edited but it's this product here (mod-nospace-bargains-dot-com....)/Cusco-Rear-Strut-Brace-BMW-E92-BM5-526-A.htm

[CALWATERBOY]

Originally Posted by e92josh

I'm a BMW noob, more or less. I have had my 328i for about a year now and I'm obsessed with suspension and handling.

First & foremost, forget Dinan, entirely. For the inexperienced and uninformed, it's the go-to vendor for a gouge.

Where I have seen you before? BimmerFest?

Before anything, get yourself a Limited Slip Differential - Wavetrac or Quaife.

Then read THIS t'give you an idea.

[e92josh]

Originally Posted by CALWATERBOY

First & foremost, forget Dinan, entirely. For the inexperienced and uninformed, it's the go-to vendor for a gouge.

Where I have seen you before? BimmerFest?

Before anything, get yourself a Limited Slip Differential - Wavetrac or Quaife.

Then read THIS t'give you an idea.

I've read your article about 3 times trying to fully wrap my mind around it. It's something I can admire but never pull the trigger on in my own garage. Mainly, because I have a wimpy parking pad and the HOA would shit on themselves at the chance to fine me more.

LSD - Interesting. Even on a 328i? I've /thought/ about this but not sure how it would fully play out.

Bimmerfest. Forums. Facebook. 24th and Main street? I get around, Cal.

Edit: Found this AWESOME post on here about LSD for anybody else wondering: http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=100072 Great write up and review. Bravo.

[Mavus]

Originally Posted by e92josh

Hi...

I'm a BMW noob, more or less. I have had my 328i for about a year now and I'm obsessed with suspension and handling.

My question is regarding what can be done to further extend my performance suspension.

At current, I have the following setup:

Sport Package w/ suspension addition from factory (sorry if this is called something else)
Eibach front/rear anti sway bar +2-5MM over OEM
All new bushings
H&R Sport springs
5/10MM spacers
OEM struts/shocks (I plan on upgrading when these go out and/or if I decide to go to coil over setup)
Dinan front upper strut bar
StopTech rotors/Hawk Pads


Now, I come from the Honda world where control arms would be next; however, I doubt I would need that with this application being a 2009 and pretty modern, right?

So, questions:

Although I do not want to open a debate of performance, I've found ONE (minus ACS?) rear upper strut bar, by Cusco seen here: http://www.**********s.com/Cusco-Rea...-BM5-526-A.htm

Yes, I've read debates over function - please, leave that aside. Would that above strut bar even mount/install? The mounting points seem to not make sense with the trunk of the car around the rear struts. So, do you think it's a typo or a mistake? Or do they /really/ make that for the e92 non-M?

What else could I do for suspension? I mean, minus the coilovers which I'm slightly torn on and throwing a full cage in?

I would love any opinions or suggestions.

And since a.) this is a visual forum and b.) we all love to show off, I've thrown a pic of my current setup:



Edit: not sure why the URL was edited but it's this product here (mod-nospace-bargains-dot-com....)/Cusco-Rear-Strut-Brace-BMW-E92-BM5-526-A.htm

What do you want to improve handling wise?

What is your driving experience?

Dual or single purpose car?

Budget?

Your initial post is scattered. There are many options/parts available.

[e92josh]

Originally Posted by Smooth 330i

What do you want to improve handling wise?

What is your driving experience?

Dual or single purpose car?

Budget?

Your initial post is scattered. There are many options/parts available.

Sorry to bounce around.

I used to Auto Cross in my Honda car. I'm all about handling.

I'd like for it to be dual purpose. Street and track; however, that said I would not want to upgrade features that would compromise daily driving for sakes of track racing (roll cage).

Budget is not a concern.

I've been researching Cal's LSD and found that to have some serious benefit and merit for the price.

I hope that help explains my intent and desire in the car.

I guess I'm wanting a more stiffer, planted ride (granted, it's very good now) - reduce body roll even further.

[e92josh]

Anybody have any experience with M control arms? How does it compare to stock ZSP package?: http://www.turnermotorsport.com/p-12...t-e82-e9x.aspx

[mike-y]

there are a ton of threads on the M control arms, so you'd be best informed if you searched and read a few.

the arms are independent of the ZSP package. you can use them with ZSP springs/shocks, or with aftermarket stuff. it's up to you

[HP Autosport]

Ok, I will throw a lot at you but here goes…

Suspension on e90s, and is on all other platforms, is a very subjective discussion. We have people on here raving about how good KWs and H&R springs are for the street and the track. These people can be hell-flush guys or people influenced by other people's advice. Just because someone says it is good does not mean it is. If you spent 2k on a KW suspension would you write a review that they suck? Probably not. Then we have other people who have actually tried out numerous setups and have had extensive track/autox time. These people have gone through numerous lengths to find the suspension that suits them. There are a few on the forums who fit in this category; I like to think I am one of them.

Now in terms of getting a better "setup," I can propose MANY different parts and their benefits. Once again, this is ALL subjective so other people might have their own ideas and thoughts. I have tracked my car for about 4 years and have probably one of the most modified suspension setups on the forums. My setup includes the follow:

AST 4250s
Swift 560/896lbs
Vorshlag Camber Plates (custom modified for more camber)
E9x M3 Front Control Arm Kit
E9X M3 Front Strut Tower Brace
Rogue Engineering Front Tension Arm Monoball Bearing
Rogue Engineering Rear Camber Link set (upper & guide rods)
Rogue Engineering Adjustable Toe Links
E9x M3 Rear Lower Control Arm
E9x M3 subframe bushings

NOTE: I am missing E9x M3 front/rear sway but I can get to that later…


Basically in terms of handling you want to start with the M3 Front Control Arm Kit. That will give you about -1.5* camber and give your steering more accuracy and confidence. It will make the steering feel slightly heavier, but that is only a side effect you notice during the first week ago and then it becomes normal.

From here you should look into a designated coil over setup. If you are looking for performance & adjustability, this is a must have. There are many a different setups, so you need to choose something that fits to your needs. Are you looking for single or double adjustable? Maybe you are just looking for upgraded shocks and better springs? If you are a casual autox/track guy then maybe coils would be overkill. You could get Koni yellows & Swift springs (which are progressive and miles better than H&R). If you think you will outgrow that then you might want to look into a set of Ohlins. In suspension you get what you pay for, and Ohlins are near the top of the heap in terms of quality, durability, and performance. I usually don't suggest going straight to Ohlins but if you know that you have a quick learning curve then go for it.

You said you already installed all new bushings so I won't suggest the M3 bushings.

The rear suspension components, such as guide rods & upper links will plant your back end more around turns and under harsh acceleration. They won't play AS big a role because you do not have a lot of power but they will still help.

An LSD is always helpful, but then again when you have a 328 the amount of difference you notice MIGHT not be as much as a car pushing 300+ at the wheels.

Hope that gave you a little direction. Good luck and it's a really fun experience learning about all these new products.

-Mike

[e92josh]

Originally Posted by mike-y

there are a ton of threads on the M control arms, so you'd be best informed if you searched and read a few.

the arms are independent of the ZSP package. you can use them with ZSP springs/shocks, or with aftermarket stuff. it's up to you

Yep, I'm on a great thread now here: http://www.e90post.com/forums/showth...=593162&page=5

Amazing read. You guys seem to know a lot. Very nice!

HP_Autosport - thank you so much for the detailed reply! I'm leaving work now, but will read and have a deeper follow up this evening while relaxing with some Liquor.

Thanks again you guys! Much better forum here than... 'others'.

[e92josh]

Originally Posted by HP Autosport

Ok, I will throw a lot at you but here goes…

Suspension on e90s, and is on all other platforms, is a very subjective discussion. We have people on here raving about how good KWs and H&R springs are for the street and the track. These people can be hell-flush guys or people influenced by other people's advice. Just because someone says it is good does not mean it is. If you spent 2k on a KW suspension would you write a review that they suck? Probably not. Then we have other people who have actually tried out numerous setups and have had extensive track/autox time. These people have gone through numerous lengths to find the suspension that suits them. There are a few on the forums who fit in this category; I like to think I am one of them.

Now in terms of getting a better "setup," I can propose MANY different parts and their benefits. Once again, this is ALL subjective so other people might have their own ideas and thoughts. I have tracked my car for about 4 years and have probably one of the most modified suspension setups on the forums. My setup includes the follow:

AST 4250s
Swift 560/896lbs
Vorshlag Camber Plates (custom modified for more camber)
E9x M3 Front Control Arm Kit
E9X M3 Front Strut Tower Brace
Rogue Engineering Front Tension Arm Monoball Bearing
Rogue Engineering Rear Camber Link set (upper & guide rods)
Rogue Engineering Adjustable Toe Links
E9x M3 Rear Lower Control Arm
E9x M3 subframe bushings

NOTE: I am missing E9x M3 front/rear sway but I can get to that later…


Basically in terms of handling you want to start with the M3 Front Control Arm Kit. That will give you about -1.5* camber and give your steering more accuracy and confidence. It will make the steering feel slightly heavier, but that is only a side effect you notice during the first week ago and then it becomes normal.

From here you should look into a designated coil over setup. If you are looking for performance & adjustability, this is a must have. There are many a different setups, so you need to choose something that fits to your needs. Are you looking for single or double adjustable? Maybe you are just looking for upgraded shocks and better springs? If you are a casual autox/track guy then maybe coils would be overkill. You could get Koni yellows & Swift springs (which are progressive and miles better than H&R). If you think you will outgrow that then you might want to look into a set of Ohlins. In suspension you get what you pay for, and Ohlins are near the top of the heap in terms of quality, durability, and performance. I usually don't suggest going straight to Ohlins but if you know that you have a quick learning curve then go for it.

You said you already installed all new bushings so I won't suggest the M3 bushings.

The rear suspension components, such as guide rods & upper links will plant your back end more around turns and under harsh acceleration. They won't play AS big a role because you do not have a lot of power but they will still help.

An LSD is always helpful, but then again when you have a 328 the amount of difference you notice MIGHT not be as much as a car pushing 300+ at the wheels.

Hope that gave you a little direction. Good luck and it's a really fun experience learning about all these new products.

-Mike

Mike,

Thank you for the detailed response.

Per your and CAL's suggestion, I have done some serious research into the M3 control upgrade. It looks like a very 'easy' and affordable modification. By all the the threads started on there and DIY's, it seems like a standard operating procedure that a few hours and a friend can't do. My intents have now started to shift into the front conversion from Turner. It's just under $400 for the non M stamped version - plus, per this thread, it's suggestion to get some additional hardware because the bolts removed are suggested to only be installed once. Be it true or not, I'd rather sleep better at night knowing my car is on new and trusted parts.

However, I do have a question or two.. -1.5 seems a bit rough to me. I've seen/read others go -.5 or -.7. Did you suggest -1.5 per your current set up or is that the default/standard with M3 suspension? I want to honestly be in the area of decent tire wear:better handling 40/60... I hate buying/replacing expensive tires and I would honestly track 3-5 times a year. If I'm lucky. Would your suggestion still stand with that in mind?

TBH, coilovers would/will be the last thing I do. I just want to tinker with smaller things here and there and learn as I go. The lowering strings (H&R Sport Springs)with ZSP? (correct me if I'm wrong) comes with a sports package. The struts seem fine, so I figured if/when they go out or start to feel weak, I will shop for coilovers I'm not about that low life, I like little or no gap, but nothing tucking or anything.

I forgot where I read this, but somebody claimed that the M3 rear would not properly fit in a 335/328 without modification. Did you experience anything like this or heard of anything similar? LSD is out of the question. I feel it's a bit silly and overkill. I mean, maybe if I land a great client or just get a few extra dollars out of nowhere it might be fun to toy around. But I just can't justify it. $300/$400/$500 here and there is a lot easier to take in than a few thousand at once.

Sorry if I'm asking a bunch, I'll try to search everything, but it's great to get feedback on the type of setup/style I'm going for, so I'm taking advantage while I can

[HP Autosport]

Originally Posted by e92josh

Mike,

Thank you for the detailed response.

Per your and CAL's suggestion, I have done some serious research into the M3 control upgrade. It looks like a very 'easy' and affordable modification. By all the the threads started on there and DIY's, it seems like a standard operating procedure that a few hours and a friend can't do. My intents have now started to shift into the front conversion from Turner. It's just under $400 for the non M stamped version - plus, per this thread, it's suggestion to get some additional hardware because the bolts removed are suggested to only be installed once. Be it true or not, I'd rather sleep better at night knowing my car is on new and trusted parts.

However, I do have a question or two.. -1.5 seems a bit rough to me. I've seen/read others go -.5 or -.7. Did you suggest -1.5 per your current set up or is that the default/standard with M3 suspension? I want to honestly be in the area of decent tire wear:better handling 40/60... I hate buying/replacing expensive tires and I would honestly track 3-5 times a year. If I'm lucky. Would your suggestion still stand with that in mind?

TBH, coilovers would/will be the last thing I do. I just want to tinker with smaller things here and there and learn as I go. The lowering strings (H&R Sport Springs)with ZSP? (correct me if I'm wrong) comes with a sports package. The struts seem fine, so I figured if/when they go out or start to feel weak, I will shop for coilovers I'm not about that low life, I like little or no gap, but nothing tucking or anything.

I forgot where I read this, but somebody claimed that the M3 rear would not properly fit in a 335/328 without modification. Did you experience anything like this or heard of anything similar? LSD is out of the question. I feel it's a bit silly and overkill. I mean, maybe if I land a great client or just get a few extra dollars out of nowhere it might be fun to toy around. But I just can't justify it. $300/$400/$500 here and there is a lot easier to take in than a few thousand at once.

Sorry if I'm asking a bunch, I'll try to search everything, but it's great to get feedback on the type of setup/style I'm going for, so I'm taking advantage while I can

Sorry for the late response.

We do carry the non-m version of the front control arms if you are interested. Regardless of what people say -1.5 up front really isn't that much. Once you start pushing -2 and 'higher' you will notice more significant wear.

In terms of springs I would suggest the Spec-R over H&R. The linear spring rates will keep a more consistent ride and will show 0 sag over their life. The H&R springs are known to sag, and since they are progressive, will not have a consistent ride quality.

In terms of the 'rear M3' I assume you are talking about the sway bar? It will fit no problem. For your application a sway bar might not be a bad idea to just slightly cut down on body roll.

Sorry if I didn't answer all your questions I tried to swallow as much as I could. Hope that helped!

-Mike