[parabmw]

looking for best bang for the buck set up.
don't want to slam car. .5 to 1 inch drop. occasional rec tracking.
just want better handling for those ramps!
budget isn't a huge issue. but don't want to buy something I won't be able to use to full potential.
I read kon with swift work well.
is kw v2 or v3 or ohlns r & t twice as good to match price.

I guess m3 front bits r a good idea.
what would be the next must have?

[BMWE90 ModMaster]

I would go with KW and some nice sway bars. just my OP.

[Ninpo1]

My vote is for KWs as well.

[HighPSI]

OP don't listen to the noobs who are telling you to go with KW.

If you're going to be tracking then definitely go with the Ohlins especially if you're in Canada where we get snow. Since you can raise the car back to stock height.

[stanlalee]

Originally Posted by HighPSI

OP don't listen to the noobs who are telling you to go with KW.

If you're going to be tracking then definitely go with the Ohlins especially if you're in Canada where we get snow. Since you can raise the car back to stock height.

Say's the person in Canada with Koni's and swift springs

I don't think a street car with "occasional rec tracking" warrants $800+ premium over adjustable Bilstein PSS10s or KW V2 coilovers. He did mention bang for buck. with the price difference you can buy M3 lower/upper control arms and sway bars.

[Ninpo1]

Originally Posted by HighPSI

OP don't listen to the noobs who are telling you to go with KW.

If you're going to be tracking then definitely go with the Ohlins especially if you're in Canada where we get snow. Since you can raise the car back to stock height.

All I know is that a friend of mine has KW V3's and I rode six laps with him around the Nürburgring and drove over two hours to get there while at a top speed of 266 kilometers per hour. The car handled unbelievably well. I've never been in such a good handling car from a suspension perspective including the BMW M5 ring taxi and an M5 that I drove on the Autobahn.

Now, I'll admit that I haven't ridden or driven cars with many other major coilover brands on such a demanding track or the autobahn, but the KWs exceeded all of my expectations and I don't have any desire to look any further.

Maybe there are other better coilovers out there, but I have experienced these firsthand on one of the best racetracks in the world and on the autobahn at speeds not legal in the U.S. I don't need any more proof that KWs can perform when needed.

I guess the real question is what are your goals with coilovers, what will you be doing with them and what type of roads and weather conditions will you have to deal with? There is not really a one size fits all for suspension.

Noobs are entitled to opinions, too.

[Kenu8187]

PSS10 or Koni swift conversion .

Ohlins are a great product but you def pay for it

Koni is top notch quality at a slightly lower premium

PSS10 is a pretty well reviewed set as well

[HighPSI]

Originally Posted by stanlalee

Say's the person in Canada with Koni's and swift springs

I don't think a street car with "occasional rec tracking" warrants $800+ premium over adjustable Bilstein PSS10s or KW V2 coilovers. He did mention bang for buck. with the price difference you can buy M3 lower/upper control arms and sway bars.

I originally wanted coilovers but my wheel setup is very aggressive and I could only go with a linear setup. I couldn't justify spending $2200 on TC Kline. Which is why I went with Koni+Swift and Koni has a lifetime warranty. Plus TC Kline utilizes Koni shocks and my Koni + Swift will outperform KW V2s or PSS10s.

OP also mentioned that budget isn't an issue, so if it isn't an issue and you want the best bang for your buck then def go with Ohlins. The amount of failed KWs I've read about is disturbing.

[HighPSI]

Originally Posted by Ninpo1

All I know is that a friend of mine has KW V3's and I rode six laps with him around the Nürburgring and drove over two hours to get there while at a top speed of 266 kilometers per hour. The car handled unbelievably well. I've never been in such a good handling car from a suspension perspective including the BMW M5 ring taxi and an M5 that I drove on the Autobahn.

Now, I'll admit that I haven't ridden or driven cars with many other major coilover brands on such a demanding track or the autobahn, but the KWs exceeded all of my expectations and I don't have any desire to look any further.

Maybe there are other better coilovers out there, but I have experienced these firsthand on one of the best racetracks in the world and on the autobahn at speeds not legal in the U.S. I don't need any more proof that KWs can perform when needed.

I guess the real question is what are your goals with coilovers, what will you be doing with them and what type of roads and weather conditions will you have to deal with? There is not really a one size fits all for suspension.

Noobs are entitled to opinions, too.

Yes but you are talking about the V3 which retail for $2200+

They are in a different league than V2. However, for the price difference, Ohlins are still a better choice. Even the new Lamborghini Gallardo comes stock with adjustable Ohlins.

At the end of the day, if you really want a proper opinion for your needs and budget - speak with Harold or Mike HPAutowerks

Ohlins/AST if you want coilovers

Koni+Swift R if you want shocks/springs

/thread

[parabmw]

thanks for the feedback.
ohlins r &t 2500
kw v3 2200
koni w swift r spec 1300

manly DD with 1-2 lapping days per yr.
harold and mike post that koni w swift out perform kw v2.

r ohlins or v3 worth double the price?
is maintenance an issue with ohlins?
would like it to be comfortable for DD and some bad roads.
also will canadian winters be an issue for any of thes
e?

[cvc 22349a]

Between Koni and Ohlins get Koni. Ohlins is a far superior damper but requires frequent servicing meaning $ and downtime for your car. The Ohlins R&T rear springs are too soft, in fact they're softer than oe sport springs. Having said that Ohlins R&T probably has the best ride comfort for these cars.

[stanlalee]

Originally Posted by parabmw

thanks for the feedback.
ohlins r &t 2500
kw v3 2200
koni w swift r spec 1300

manly DD with 1-2 lapping days per yr.

I just don't see why anybody would need DOUBLE adjustable V3s for 1-2 lapping days per year which is why I never even mentioned the more expensive V3s. Do you honestly need that much set up/adjustability on a DD. Usually even when people think they do they don't.

As for KW reliability I am new to BMWs but they KW/ST are quite popular in the VW field as are Koni coilovers (they have coilover kits for most VAG cars) and they BOTH fail here and there. Dare I say Koni coilovers fail even more. The only real difference is Koni pretty much warranties the product with no questions asked and with KW if they can prove (via admission/marks etc) you were lowered below their "recommended" range they won't warranty it and then the question becomes why make them adjustable below what you consider reliable. As you can imagine their "recommended" range is usually conservative enough that you would have just bought shocks/springs if you planned on staying in that range. Specifically (no me although I had a GTI with ST coilovers for over a year without issue)
http://www.golfmkv.com/forums/showthread.php?t=172787

[Lotus99]

Great point...

I track 3 to 5 days a year, and am debating whether to go big and spend $ on a KW V3 system / PSS10's, or a regular system like a V1, or middle ground V2.

From what little I know (I have just started my research on suspension upgrades), and why a PSS10 appealed to me, was that I thought you can change the settings quite quickly when you arrive at the track to firm it up, and then as you drive off home, go for a DD mode. The PSS10's description on TireRack says: "Click From Comfort to Competition With No Tools or Jacking Required"...

If it's in fact that easy, I'd happily pay an extra $500 for that, rather than getting a non-adjustable system, though I suppose even a non-adjustable system is still an upgrade over stock suspension (I have an E93 with sport package). But my thinking was if I'm going to bother to upgrade my suspension, then why not get an adjustable one while I'm at it, instead of something that's an upgrade, but still not stiff enough for track.

The Bilstein B16 electronic coilovers would be awesome to have, where you just push the button and go firm, but I've read installing them is a real PITA because you have to run the wires back from all four corners to the module in the car, so I'll probably pass on that as I don't want to fork out a ton of dough for labor.

Is that a fair representation of how the higher end ones work? What would you do in my shoes? Is a "compromise" KW V1 system just fine then for someone who tracks 3 to 5 days a year?

[ashmostro]

Bilsteins sit very low, even at their highest setting... keep that in mind.

My vote is Koni yellows with swift springs if you don't care about adjustable ride height. other wise Koni coils from tc Kline or ground control.

[Lotus99]

OK, though I'd love to hear your thoughts on the various topics I brought up and the thought process I am in, so I can make a better decision, as I don't want to just memorize something like one brand is like this, or that.

[Phil325i]

Originally Posted by cvc 22349a

Ohlins...requires frequent servicing

News to me. Where did you get that idea? And what do you call 'frequent'? Ohlins' own manual says inspection at 30,000km, but this is only a visual exam and external clean, which is easily DIY...

[ashmostro]

Originally Posted by Lotus99

OK, though I'd love to hear your thoughts on the various topics I brought up and the thought process I am in, so I can make a better decision, as I don't want to just memorize something like one brand is like this, or that.

If you go with Koni whites from HPA, or from TCKline you will get full one-way (rebound) adjustability without having to jack up the car. The standard koni yellow rears do require jacking and temporary unbolting of the shock for adjustment so I don't recommend those if you are going to be tracking.

If you are willing to swing the cash, the double adjustable TC Kline kit has a superior valve package that will be both track ready and can give a really comfortable feel on the street. It's pricier though but not any more so than V3's. The main benefit IMO over the KW's is the linear spring rates and the narrower spring package which allows for wider wheels to be installed than the KW setup.

You can convert the KW to linear Swift springs but that adds to the price significantly (it's not a swap, it's an additional purchase).


Now, do you need two-way adjustment? That's a tough call to make not knowing you since everyone has different needs and is more or less sensitive to suspension nuances. *Most* folks are satisfied with rebound only adjustment (that's what I have and for the most part it's fine for me). I would not recommend fixed damping if you track, unless you are really on a tight budget.

Does that help?

[Lotus99]

@ashmostro - Thanks for the reply. I'll read it a few times to let it sink in as this is all new to me.

It may be oversimplifying it, but in a nutshell, for someone like me who's going to a road track 3 to 5 times a year - and has an E93 - I was trying to figure out if a V1, V2, or V3 type system would be best. I currently don't have any other suspension mods, and I don't want to go overboard buying a ton of other suspension stuff, but I thought maybe at least sway bars for front and rear.

I don't know if it's just wishful thinking, but I was thinking that before the track day, I'd just adjust them in a few minutes, and then go back after the day is done. I thought you basically just pop the hood, and run the dial with your hand to whatever setting.

But I don't know if you adjust the rears like that too, and if not, how hard it would be, because I can't visualize how you'd access the top of the shock/whatever.

And on top of the above questions, I'm wondering how hard the install in an E93 would be even, since I saw a guy I thought who had posted he hacked up his trunk liner to have the room to install his. If that's true, it sort of turns me off the whole thing...

http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=661459

(I'm going to use the different V numbers as a general way of describing the different stages, like in the KW system, not because it's the only brand I'm considering):

V3 sounds like overkill. V2 sounds like it might get me the above. V1 - is it too much of a compromise, and it'll be a bit firmer for DD, but not quite firm enough for track? If that's true about how V1 would be, that's why I was saying I'm happy to spend a few extra hundred $ to be able to have it just right for DD, and track.

Thanks for reading all this and your insight!

[cvc 22349a]

Originally Posted by Phil325i

News to me. Where did you get that idea? And what do you call 'frequent'? Ohlins' own manual says inspection at 30,000km, but this is only a visual exam and external clean, which is easily DIY...

I've read more than once on this forum that Ohlins dampers require servicing every 30k. My 'assumption' is the servicing requires removing the damper from the car.
If you have these dampers, what is the manufacturer's recommendation for 'servicing'?

[Phil325i]

Originally Posted by cvc 22349a

If you have these dampers, what is the manufacturer's recommendation for 'servicing'?

Erm...exactly what I said in my post - visual examination and external clean.

[ashmostro]

Originally Posted by Lotus99

@ashmostro - Thanks for the reply. I'll read it a few times to let it sink in as this is all new to me.

It may be oversimplifying it, but in a nutshell, for someone like me who's going to a road track 3 to 5 times a year - and has an E93 - I was trying to figure out if a V1, V2, or V3 type system would be best. I currently don't have any other suspension mods, and I don't want to go overboard buying a ton of other suspension stuff, but I thought maybe at least sway bars for front and rear.

I don't know if it's just wishful thinking, but I was thinking that before the track day, I'd just adjust them in a few minutes, and then go back after the day is done. I thought you basically just pop the hood, and run the dial with your hand to whatever setting.

But I don't know if you adjust the rears like that too, and if not, how hard it would be, because I can't visualize how you'd access the top of the shock/whatever.

And on top of the above questions, I'm wondering how hard the install in an E93 would be even, since I saw a guy I thought who had posted he hacked up his trunk liner to have the room to install his. If that's true, it sort of turns me off the whole thing...

http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=661459

(I'm going to use the different V numbers as a general way of describing the different stages, like literally only the KW system): V3 sounds like overkill. V2 sounds like it might get me the above. V1 - is it too much of a compromise, and it'll be a bit firmer for DD, but not quite firm enough for track? If that's true about how V1 would be, that's why I was saying I'm happy to spend a few extra hundred $ to be able to have it just right for DD, and track.

Thanks for reading all this and your insight!

Missed the e93 bit- apologies. I'm not sure how easy/difficult it is to get to the top of the shocks on an e93 (i have an e92 and what I did was cut out a hole in the trunk liner and refit the rubber grommet originall on the chassis that covers the shock top, but instead on the liner. I just pop off the grommet, adjust the shocks, and I'm done. Takes literally 60 seconds.

The front is even easier and wouldn't be any different on your car.

WRT to the KW kit, best thing to do is read the manuals they have posted up on their site, specific to the e93 chassis. I don't recommend the V1 for your needs bc of the lack of adjustability... but that's just my opinion. Others may disagree. Your concern is valid that you may have a compromise setup on street or track, or both.

I think a phone call to TC Kline would also be immensely helpful for you to get recommendations - they have outstanding customer service and will take the time to answer questions as well as take your needs into account in their recommendations. FWIW I would still go with Koni for your setup, as long as it's the right spring rate etc. The reason I recommend that is because the spring rates can be precisely tailored for your setup and needs, whereas you are stuck with what KW engineers have chosen for your (which isn't inherently a bad thing but still, I like the custom option).

[HP Autosport]

Originally Posted by cvc 22349a

I've read more than once on this forum that Ohlins dampers require servicing every 30k. My 'assumption' is the servicing requires removing the damper from the car.
If you have these dampers, what is the manufacturer's recommendation for 'servicing'?

I am pretty sure that this 'servicing' is required for cars that are hitting the track more than 5 times/year. I would service my 4250s every 30k miles just to keep the dampening up to par when I thrash my car on a track.

To the OP, it really depends on what you are using the car for. Just like you are saying, if you track your car maybe twice per year I really don't see the point of spending $$$$ for a single adjustable/double adjustable setup. Yes, the Ohlins drive BETTER than stock and drive BETTER than Konis because of their DFV technology. However, are you an experienced enough driver to notice that every day of the week? Probably not. If you are asking if KWs are a good product then you, no offense, probably will never feel the difference.

The misconception is what is "best" for the car is sometimes not the "best" for the driver. In your case I would start out with a less expensive setup (Koni + swift). You will notice a significant difference in drive quality and handling characteristics. This setup will allow you to grow and will present a gradual learning curve which will be EXTREMELY enjoyable. If you go from stock to Ohlins and really don't know why Ohlins are good or why you went with this particular setup, it just won't do you nor the setup any justice.

Bottom line is start small and build your way up. I started with KW V2s… then went to SWIFT conversion on the V2s… then went to AST 4250s 400/800… and now I am going to 560/900 spring rate on the 4250s. It's A LOT of fun to progressively work your way up the ladder of products. Starting out small will not only save you money, but will help you learn about suspension in the RIGHT way.

Let us know if you have any more questions!

-Mike