Dealer engine rebuild issue

FRG · 10-17-2013, 11:08 AM

Hi,

A good friend of mine had the timing chain fail on his X5 3.0d (M57). Car out of warranty but BMW UK agreed to 50/50 the parts (I think) and carry out the repair/rebuild.

From looking at the parts schedule it's had new inlet and exhaust valves, rockers, head bolts, timing chain etcâ¦

They've contacted him today to say the car is available but it's misfiring on idle and something about no compression on 2 cylinders. Basically, they've turned round and said that as the car was a non runner when they took it in for repair the issue could have been there before and my mate has got to pay for them to "strip down the engine again to find the fault"!

My view on this is they're talking utter BOLLOCKS. Any advice on where to go on this would be much appreciated.

Cheers

Dave

Kerr · 10-17-2013, 11:22 AM

That sounds very wrong to me.

Andrey · 10-17-2013, 11:40 AM

Take it to a different dealership, or even independent indy shop

bmwak · 10-17-2013, 04:26 PM

The work they've done is directly related to what was wrong. Sounds like the repair was not done properly, they've done what was commissioned and now they are trying to get funding off your mate to correct their problem. They can't just wash their hands with it. Take it up with BMW UK as this is wrong and not logical at all. Demand that their technicians inspects the car and gives you a report on it and don't collect the car (they can send a technician to the franchised dealer to inspect the car).

Taking it to another garage is starting from scratch and I doubt they'd be willing to correct another dealers problem car for free, so it's not gonna achieve anything other than a repaired car for another bill.

FRG · 10-18-2013, 02:02 AM

Thanks guys.

They confirmed on strip down that the pistons and rings were good and didn't need replacing so where else can the no compression issue come from other than the valves which they've replaced. Can't believe they're trying it on like that.

MERLIN335i · 10-18-2013, 05:23 AM

It's possible, that they (the tech) messed up the valve timing, only needs to be one tooth out, and as the engine is turned over, the piston kisses the valves, bends them very slightly, hey presto, little or no compression.

Realises what is wrong, corrects valve timing, but still low comp.

Tech hasn't got the balls to own up.

As I say a possibility, but there and again, I am getting cynical, bitter and twisted in my old age

creepy coupe · 10-18-2013, 05:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FRG325

Hi,

A good friend of mine had the timing chain fail on his X5 3.0d (M57). Car

Dave

When you say "fail". was the engine running when he dropped it at the dealer?

FRG · 10-18-2013, 07:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by creepy coupe

Quote:

Originally Posted by FRG325

Hi,

A good friend of mine had the timing chain fail on his X5 3.0d (M57). Car

Dave

When you say "fail". was the engine running when he dropped it at the dealer?

No, it wasn't, transported there by the AA.

creepy coupe · 10-18-2013, 07:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FRG325

No, it wasn't, transported there by the AA.

Then there is every reason to claim the compression was affected due to the failure.I can't see how the dealer can dispute possible/likely damage due to the cam chain failure.

I'd imagine the dealer doesn't want to own up to doing half a job.

Your friend needs written confirmation that the damage wasn't as a result of the original problem. Something I fail to see they're able to standby.

xenon · 10-18-2013, 08:06 AM

That is the most ridiculous story I've ever heard.

I wouldn't even fcuk about if I were your mate - I'd given them 14 days to sort it or sue in the Small Claims Court.

mowflow · 10-18-2013, 08:09 AM

We had a timing chain go on a 1 series a few years back. Car was out of warranty by 1 week, fortunately BMW covered the cost. When the car came back it seemed they had made an arse of the job as it was going through coolant like George Best went through livers.

FRG · 10-18-2013, 09:48 AM

Latest is: BMW UK have refused to intervene. Dealer won't budge and wants the 5 series loaner back Monday. Dealer is saying that it would have been an extra £3k worth of work to strip the block and as the car has just tipped 100k miles they wouldn't have rebuilt it with the old parts but used new - fair enough. Mate asked why they didn't ask his authorisation on this work when it was stripped and they said that upon initial inspection (how this is done I'm not sure? Fill the cylinder [head off] and watch for leaks?) the rings were good so they proceeded with the head rebuild.

Its not working so surely it's down to them to fix it.

xenon · 10-18-2013, 10:23 AM

If there's something wrong with the rings it's not down to them but I'd bet my mortgage it's something in the timing gear / valve train fcuked up.

If they're saying that a leak-down test was good, by their own inspection, and the engine hasn't run since then ask them what the lack of compression can be if it's not the rings? Answer: valve train. And which part was it you guys just rebuilt as a result of the chain failure?.....

They either didn't do the leak-down correctly or they didn't rebuild the head correctly.

(Incidentally, a leak-down test is a rough and ready way of determining compression when you can't do a conventional compression test because the valve gear is damaged.)

creepy coupe · 10-18-2013, 10:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FRG325

Latest is: BMW UK have refused to intervene. Dealer won't budge and wants the 5 series loaner back Monday. Dealer is saying that it would have been an extra £3k worth of work to strip the block and as the car has just tipped 100k miles they wouldn't have rebuilt it with the old parts but used new - fair enough. Mate asked why they didn't ask his authorisation on this work when it was stripped and they said that upon initial inspection (how this is done I'm not sure? Fill the cylinder [head off] and watch for leaks?) the rings were good so they proceeded with the head rebuild.

Its not working so surely it's down to them to fix it.

If the leak down test came back "good" then the loss of compression is down to something they have do to the head either incorrectly fitting the new parts or damaging them when refitting/timing.

rogerxp · 10-18-2013, 01:51 PM

I haven't got a friggin' clue what you're all talking about but this is the reason forums are so bloody useful.

Hopefully your friend reaches a satisfactory conclusion here; it's easy to be baffled by a dealer if you're clueless on the mechanicals.

phil200tdi · 10-18-2013, 06:18 PM

Get an independent engineering report detailing the problem. If it turns out to be the parts they claim to have replaced - take them to the small claims court for costs and compensation.

A politely written letter detailing this process maybe sufficient to make them reconsider.

Birds BMW would be a good starting point for the report.

10-17-2013, 11:08 AM	#1
FRG Captain 63 Rep 647 Posts Drives: E91 325d M Sport Join Date: May 2012 Location: east midlands iTrader: (1)	Hi, A good friend of mine had the timing chain fail on his X5 3.0d (M57). Car out of warranty but BMW UK agreed to 50/50 the parts (I think) and carry out the repair/rebuild. From looking at the parts schedule it's had new inlet and exhaust valves, rockers, head bolts, timing chain etcâ¦ They've contacted him today to say the car is available but it's misfiring on idle and something about no compression on 2 cylinders. Basically, they've turned round and said that as the car was a non runner when they took it in for repair the issue could have been there before and my mate has got to pay for them to "strip down the engine again to find the fault"! My view on this is they're talking utter BOLLOCKS. Any advice on where to go on this would be much appreciated. Cheers Dave
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10-17-2013, 11:22 AM	#2
Kerr Brigadier General 112 Rep 4,021 Posts Drives: BMW M235I Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: Aberdeen iTrader: (0)	That sounds very wrong to me.
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10-17-2013, 11:40 AM	#3
Andrey Average Guy 52 Rep 316 Posts Drives: 2011 335i, Gone 2011 BMW 550i, Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: North Atlanta, GA iTrader: (0)	Take it to a different dealership, or even independent indy shop
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10-17-2013, 04:26 PM	#4
bmwak Major 106 Rep 1,235 Posts Drives: 440i M-Sport Gran Coupe Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: London iTrader: (4)	The work they've done is directly related to what was wrong. Sounds like the repair was not done properly, they've done what was commissioned and now they are trying to get funding off your mate to correct their problem. They can't just wash their hands with it. Take it up with BMW UK as this is wrong and not logical at all. Demand that their technicians inspects the car and gives you a report on it and don't collect the car (they can send a technician to the franchised dealer to inspect the car). Taking it to another garage is starting from scratch and I doubt they'd be willing to correct another dealers problem car for free, so it's not gonna achieve anything other than a repaired car for another bill.
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10-18-2013, 02:02 AM	#5
FRG Captain 63 Rep 647 Posts Drives: E91 325d M Sport Join Date: May 2012 Location: east midlands iTrader: (1)	Thanks guys. They confirmed on strip down that the pistons and rings were good and didn't need replacing so where else can the no compression issue come from other than the valves which they've replaced. Can't believe they're trying it on like that.
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10-18-2013, 05:23 AM	#6
MERLIN335i Brigadier General 118 Rep 3,866 Posts Drives: Gone: E92 M3 Competition Pack Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Buckinghamshire iTrader: (0)	It's possible, that they (the tech) messed up the valve timing, only needs to be one tooth out, and as the engine is turned over, the piston kisses the valves, bends them very slightly, hey presto, little or no compression. Realises what is wrong, corrects valve timing, but still low comp. Tech hasn't got the balls to own up. As I say a possibility, but there and again, I am getting cynical, bitter and twisted in my old age
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10-18-2013, 08:06 AM	#10
xenon Major General 1397 Rep 8,083 Posts Drives: 2021 G21 330i M-Sport Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Coventry iTrader: (0)	That is the most ridiculous story I've ever heard. I wouldn't even fcuk about if I were your mate - I'd given them 14 days to sort it or sue in the Small Claims Court. __________________ Ian Current: 2021 G21 330i M-Sport Previous: 2018 A6 Avant S-Line MMI+, 2014 F31 320d M-Sport, 2013 F10 520d M-Sport, 2011 F10 530d M-Sport, 2008 320i M-Sport Coupe, 2002 325i, 2001 318i valvetronic, 1998 318i, 1996 525i, 1990 Porsche 944S2
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10-18-2013, 08:09 AM	#11
mowflow Colonel 62 Rep 2,472 Posts Drives: Golf 7R Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Glasgow iTrader: (2)	We had a timing chain go on a 1 series a few years back. Car was out of warranty by 1 week, fortunately BMW covered the cost. When the car came back it seemed they had made an arse of the job as it was going through coolant like George Best went through livers. __________________ Daily Golf R Project Peugeot 205 1.6 GTi
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10-18-2013, 09:48 AM	#12
FRG Captain 63 Rep 647 Posts Drives: E91 325d M Sport Join Date: May 2012 Location: east midlands iTrader: (1)	Latest is: BMW UK have refused to intervene. Dealer won't budge and wants the 5 series loaner back Monday. Dealer is saying that it would have been an extra £3k worth of work to strip the block and as the car has just tipped 100k miles they wouldn't have rebuilt it with the old parts but used new - fair enough. Mate asked why they didn't ask his authorisation on this work when it was stripped and they said that upon initial inspection (how this is done I'm not sure? Fill the cylinder [head off] and watch for leaks?) the rings were good so they proceeded with the head rebuild. Its not working so surely it's down to them to fix it.
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10-18-2013, 10:23 AM	#13
xenon Major General 1397 Rep 8,083 Posts Drives: 2021 G21 330i M-Sport Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Coventry iTrader: (0)	If there's something wrong with the rings it's not down to them but I'd bet my mortgage it's something in the timing gear / valve train fcuked up. If they're saying that a leak-down test was good, by their own inspection, and the engine hasn't run since then ask them what the lack of compression can be if it's not the rings? Answer: valve train. And which part was it you guys just rebuilt as a result of the chain failure?..... They either didn't do the leak-down correctly or they didn't rebuild the head correctly. (Incidentally, a leak-down test is a rough and ready way of determining compression when you can't do a conventional compression test because the valve gear is damaged.) __________________ Ian Current: 2021 G21 330i M-Sport Previous: 2018 A6 Avant S-Line MMI+, 2014 F31 320d M-Sport, 2013 F10 520d M-Sport, 2011 F10 530d M-Sport, 2008 320i M-Sport Coupe, 2002 325i, 2001 318i valvetronic, 1998 318i, 1996 525i, 1990 Porsche 944S2
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10-18-2013, 01:51 PM	#15
rogerxp Major General 165 Rep 5,950 Posts Drives: M3 Comp Pack / QQ+2 Tekna Join Date: May 2008 Location: Stockport, Cheshire iTrader: (1) Garage List 2008 350Z GT Roadster [2.00] 2004 Honda S2000 [0.00] 2005 Nissan 350Z GT ... [0.00] 2006 E92 BMW 335i SE [9.00] 2003 Maserati 4200 [6.00] 2006 E90 330d M Sport [0.00]	I haven't got a friggin' clue what you're all talking about but this is the reason forums are so bloody useful. Hopefully your friend reaches a satisfactory conclusion here; it's easy to be baffled by a dealer if you're clueless on the mechanicals.
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10-18-2013, 06:18 PM	#16
phil200tdi Colonel 112 Rep 2,621 Posts Drives: 335i M Sport E90 LCI manual Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: Aylesbury iTrader: (1)	Get an independent engineering report detailing the problem. If it turns out to be the parts they claim to have replaced - take them to the small claims court for costs and compensation. A politely written letter detailing this process maybe sufficient to make them reconsider. Birds BMW would be a good starting point for the report. __________________ Car: e91 330d with Viezu map Gone but not forgotten: 2010 Jaguar XFR (Cat-back exhaust, pulley, intake mods and map), Highly Modified E90 335i LCI M Sport Manual (circa 480BHP/500lb ft)
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