[ucla1995]

develop a tool which will allow the techs to see if the car has had a ECU mod even if you take it out before service? It seems to me that the engine would store data like what boost pressure and fuel mix it was running at for the last week or so. Wouldn't they be able to see that regardless of whether the mod was in the car when it was in the shop??

[scottp999]

I'm sure they could develop something. Right now the signals are intercepted and this most likely defeats their ability to see what is going on. They will probably play catch up soon and other methods will have to be developed.

[rideelement247]

Originally Posted by ucla1995

develop a tool which will allow the techs to see if the car has had a ECU mod even if you take it out before service? It seems to me that the engine would store data like what boost pressure and fuel mix it was running at for the last week or so. Wouldn't they be able to see that regardless of whether the mod was in the car when it was in the shop??

Nope, they can't see it. For the ECU to log that, then it would be too much programming, etc. Too much time wasted.

Most car manufacturers paint their ECU harnesses and plugs that piggybacks have to tap into. And when you remove the piggy, off comes some paint of the ECU harness. That way, car manufacturers can say "Well...someone's been here."

But BMW has neither. No datalogging, no painted plugs and harnesses, etc. You are good to go

[rideelement247]

Originally Posted by scottp999

I'm sure they could develop something. Right now the signals are intercepted and this most likely defeats their ability to see what is going on. They will probably play catch up soon and other methods will have to be developed.

Right, piggys intercept signals and convert them, so the ECU sees what it thinks is the correct info.

[tintivilus]

Originally Posted by rideelement247

Nope, they can't see it. For the ECU to log that, then it would be too much programming, etc. Too much time wasted.

Most car manufacturers paint their ECU harnesses and plugs that piggybacks have to tap into. And when you remove the piggy, off comes some paint of the ECU harness. That way, car manufacturers can say "Well...someone's been here."

But BMW has neither. No datalogging, no painted plugs and harnesses, etc. You are good to go

I think the appropriate low-tech solution would be a hologram "warranty void if removed" sticker on the ECU box

[scalbert]

Originally Posted by rideelement247

Right, piggys intercept signals and convert them, so the ECU sees what it thinks is the correct info.

Well, yes and no. The TMAP signal appears to be stock. However, the O2 sensor signals are moddified to get the mixture where the tuners want it. I am not sure on how much they are moddified though. If significant enough they could possibly be used as an indicator.

However, and as mentioned, the low tech solution of a hologram sticker would be more cost effective.

[bronco]

If BMW comes out with a "tool" or a way to catch people when they use piggys on their ECUs --- then do you know how many people will NOT purchase a 335i?
If I was a car manufacturer and I wanted to stay IN business (especially with the bad economy in USA), I would not put too much pressure on my potential and current customers

Just my ...02 cents

[DrM]

My suspicion is that BMW loses more money to warranty repairs on modded cars that were abused than from lost profits due to lost purchases if BMW protected things. Only the car company would know this for sure but I am sure they have looked at this issue. Just look at the huge number of posts from the members with modded cars wanting to make sure that BMW can't detect their favorite mod (particularly piggybacks). If owners weren't trying to protect their warranty, they wouldn't care if BMW could see the mod. My personal opinion is that if you abuse it and break it, you should pay for it.

Given that more and more cars are moving toward electronic controls, it is only a matter of time before the sensors are networked using encrypted protocols. The OS of most cars is already encrypted. Also, the CPUs used in most modern cars are have plenty of power to decrypt the signals.

One of the things helping to slow this here in the US is that manufacturers are required to give parts specs to outside companies after a couple of years, which allows for generic parts. This would likely allow the public access to the encryption protocols.

The first person that makes a rugged chip that can be added to sensors and used to encrypt the sensor's output will make a killing from the auto manufacturers.

Originally Posted by bronco

If BMW comes out with a "tool" or a way to catch people when they use piggys on their ECUs --- then do you know how many people will NOT purchase a 335i?
If I was a car manufacturer and I wanted to stay IN business (especially with the bad economy in USA), I would not put too much pressure on my potential and current customers

Just my ...02 cents

[azeemtn]

Let's not forgot how small of a minority we are when it comes to "modding" posts compared to how many cars they are selling. I don't know what the percentages are, but I'd reckon modders via chip/piggyback are still pretty small compared to how many 335/535's that are being sold.

[DrM]

True. This isn't the Evo, STi, SRT4 forums

Originally Posted by azeemtn

Let's not forgot how small of a minority we are when it comes to "modding" posts compared to how many cars they are selling. I don't know what the percentages are, but I'd reckon modders via chip/piggyback are still pretty small compared to how many 335/535's that are being sold.

[rideelement247]

Originally Posted by DrM

True. This isn't the Evo, STi, SRT4 forums

+10000.

The biggest indicator of not being one of those mentioned forms is because we don't have threads dedicated to OMG WHAT COOL NEW WING I SHOULD GET!?!?!?

Personally, if the wing is more than 8 inches from the trunk lid, I think the car should just take off and lfy itself off a cliff.

Sorry, just have to vent some anger. I just saw a silver tiburon with orange racing stripes and a wing that was 4 feet above his trunk lid. ughhhhh

[SteveMD]

Clear something up for me. Do the less sophisticated 'chips' like the SSTT and JB disguise the higher boost levels from the ECU?

The hologram sticker seems like a no brainer.

Or one of those tags the electric company puts on your meter.

[sambonator]

Would there be a legitimate reason for us to get into the ECU compartment and remove the harness bundle, aside from a piggyback? Just wondering what reasons we might have to have done it (if they could detect it through paint, sticker, etc.). BTW I saw yellow "paint" on the ECU connector, with the texture of a BIC White-out...

[rideelement247]

Originally Posted by sambonator

Would there be a legitimate reason for us to get into the ECU compartment and remove the harness bundle, aside from a piggyback? Just wondering what reasons we might have to have done it (if they could detect it through paint, sticker, etc.). BTW I saw yellow "paint" on the ECU connector, with the texture of a BIC White-out...

See I haven't chipped it yet, so I don't know.

It's possible that might be indicator paint. What wire is it near? Any wire used for procede? or speed governor?

[rideelement247]

BTW, there's no legitimate reason, except "Well, I was curious one day, so I decided to pull plugs out of my ECU and then reconnect them."

I doubt we will be justified opening the ECU. It will be highly suspicious if we know where its located, ESSPECIALLY how to get to it, open it, and scratch near a specific wire relating to boost, O2, etc.

[BzzzBom]

You don't need to touch the ECU with a reflash.

[rideelement247]

Originally Posted by BzzzBom

You don't need to touch the ECU with a reflash.

But it only takes a quick plug into the ECU or OBDII port, and bingo! BMW will automatically see a red flag.

It doesn't take much to be able to recognize your own. If you own a BMW, and someone replaces it with an Accord, you will obviously know.

There's no hiding a reflash. sorry.

[2007_E93]

Originally Posted by rideelement247

But it only takes a quick plug into the ECU or OBDII port, and bingo! BMW will automatically see a red flag.

It doesn't take much to be able to recognize your own. If you own a BMW, and someone replaces it with an Accord, you will obviously know.

There's no hiding a reflash. sorry.

+1 I Agree!! Besides, what keeps an ECU update from removing your flash?

[JEllis]

Originally Posted by bronco

If BMW comes out with a "tool" or a way to catch people when they use piggys on their ECUs --- then do you know how many people will NOT purchase a 335i?
If I was a car manufacturer and I wanted to stay IN business (especially with the bad economy in USA), I would not put too much pressure on my potential and current customers

Just my ...02 cents

Counldnt disagree with you more. I would say less than 10% of 335i buyers have plans to mod their cars. We and the other enthusiests on forums like this make up a very small percentage of BMW buyers.

Jason

[scalbert]

Originally Posted by SteveMD

Clear something up for me. Do the less sophisticated 'chips' like the SSTT and JB disguise the higher boost levels from the ECU?

Yes, the SSTT and JBS1 also modify the MAP signal and it appears to be in a stock range.

The JBS2 also alters the O2 sensor signals though as do the PROcede, XEDE, etc.

[533ogetnom]

you guys are dreaming if you think bmw couldnt develop a way to scan the ECU to detect if a piggyback was installed, theres plenty of cues leftover, they are just not snake biting in your face obvious like a flash is


the question is would they take the time to bother, if engines were blowing up left and right... yea they would crack down im sure, but since they arent it would be biting the hand that feeds you type stuff




oh yea nad i want my click back for the non descript topic which i would not have clicked if it had been more informative

[Max_!]

Why should they bother?

Lawyers on retainer are cheaper than hologram stickers.

BMW sells hundreds of thousands of cars. Putting a sticker or paint on each and every one of those would cost more and might not even legally get them out of a warranty claim.

If they suspect a certain type of damage is due to modification, they just tell you your warranty is void because of modification and let you take it from there.