[sambonator]

I used to have the Turbo Tuner, and I'd been happy with it. I sold off the SSTT and finally got around to installing JBS2.

Installation went quite smooth. The JBS1/2 install video was extremely helpful in understanding how to get to the ECU.

My suggestions to improve the video are:

1. I had to remove 6 8mm screws (not 2 as mentioned in the video) to remove the filter.

2. The removal of the subconnector needs a little more explanation and better video shots.

3. Solenoid bypass needs better explanation and better video.

4. Video on putting everything back together would be nice.

5. Video on removing JBS1/2 and putting it back to stock would also be helpful. If I have to put back to stock today, I might be a little worried about not putting the solenoid back together correctly (Does the hose from the T go to the front connector or the rear?)


Anyhow, the video was instrumental in helping me get this installed without any issues.

I started the car, and everything seemed normal. I drove around for about 20 minutes with DSC and DTC off, to test things out, and here are my comments, compared to SSTT. I have an automatic, BTW, and the heavy 19" Morr 162 reps and Exclaim UHPs 245/35/19, 275/30/19's on back. Chevron 91 octane as always.

1. The SSTT seemed to have more lower-end torque. I used to be able to break loose the rear tires with the SSTT in 1st. With JBS2 I cannot.

2. JBS2 seems to have more "power" especially from about 3500 rpm's on up. Where SSTT seemed to run out of steam in the upper RPM's, JBS2 pulls hard to redline.

3. While SSTT seemed to always lose power after a couple of hard runs, JBS2 never lost power. In fact the car with JBS2 felt like it was getting stronger.

From what I understand, just like the SSTT, I need to allow a couple of days for the ECU to adjust, for me to feel the full power of the JBS2. I'm looking forward to continuing my testing

[JEllis]

thanks for the write up

[AoshichanX]

more info more power to us all! thanks

[catdog]

Thanks for the comparison and keep us updated; i always wondered is the TT may not have been the better way to go since it is so easy to install and remove, i am glad there are some differences with respect to torque curve even though just by butt dyno.

I agree with your assessment about the high rpm power of the JB2, for me that was one of the most pleasant surprises compared to the stock setup.

[fedinand]

Congrats! Have fun w/ the new found power.

[remydlc]

The longest hose goes to the very rear one (left when on the side of the car), the T goes to the one in the front (right when on the side of the car).

Enjoy your new toy!!!

[e90AW335i]

Nice write up, and congrats......

[sambonator]

Day 2 notes:

DAYUM my car is FAST!!! My rear tires now easily break loose in 1st gear.

The car pulls hard throughout the rev range, which is something I hadn't experienced with the SSTT. Acceleration is strong and very smooth, and there is no let up to the pull to redline.

The automatic upshift in DS mode is very quick, and the hard acceleration starts again immediately. This is where the difference between the SSTT and JBS2 is most noticeable. SSTT has great midrange torque and power, but always felt like I need to upshift sooner than later to get back into the torque band. Not with the JBS2... if it weren't for the "redline" on the tach, I don't feel the need to upshift at all. Good thing the AT does it for me .

My theory on why this is so:

SSTT increases boost, higher than JBS2, but relies on the ECU to pull timing. In essence, on 91 premium gas, I believe my timing is getting pulled, which reduces power at the higher RPM range, but gives the car good torque in the midrange (where pulled timing isn't as critical for good torquey power).

The JBS2 increases boost and also richens the fuel mix, allowing for timing advance at high RPMs thus producing good power throughout the rev range even with the moderate boost increase.

The SSTT may be able to match or even beat the JBS2 power in the upper RPM's on 100 octane race gas, due to its higher boost levels.

The Procede system has the best of both worlds... great midrange torque due to higher boost levels, and great power at higher RPM's, since it controls timing in addition to boost and fuel delivery. At least in the v.1.47 iteration, I believe that JBS2 matches the Procede. Why? Because the prodigious midrange torque from the Procede's higher boost can hurt launches.

My guess is Procede 1.47 has really nice driveability due to massive torque at lower RPM's. But on WOT runs, you're running mostly in the higher RPM range, where the JBS2 system shines. That may be the reason why we aren't seeing much of a difference in 0-60 times and 1/4 mile runs.

Procede v.2 appears to be another beast altogether. Once all the bugs get worked out, I may give it a try. The things that worries me with Procede is the extra stress on the engine/drivetrain from the ungodly power, and the error codes/CELs/Limp modes. So for now I will just watch and see... especially since I'm quite happy with the Juicebox Stage 2

[AoshichanX]

thanks for the update! I think I might try tacking on an piggyback again at 25,000 miles.

[billspreston]

Nice dude, I noticed my car got stronger the second day as well! Where you at in So Cal?

[Former_Boosted_IS]

Originally Posted by sambonator

Day 2 notes:

DAYUM my car is FAST!!! My rear tires now easily break loose in 1st gear.

The car pulls hard throughout the rev range, which is something I hadn't experienced with the SSTT. Acceleration is strong and very smooth, and there is no let up to the pull to redline.

The automatic upshift in DS mode is very quick, and the hard acceleration starts again immediately. This is where the difference between the SSTT and JBS2 is most noticeable. SSTT has great midrange torque and power, but always felt like I need to upshift sooner than later to get back into the torque band. Not with the JBS2... if it weren't for the "redline" on the tach, I don't feel the need to upshift at all. Good thing the AT does it for me .

My theory on why this is so:

SSTT increases boost, higher than JBS2, but relies on the ECU to pull timing. In essence, on 91 premium gas, I believe my timing is getting pulled, which reduces power at the higher RPM range, but gives the car good torque in the midrange (where pulled timing isn't as critical for good torquey power).

The JBS2 increases boost and also richens the fuel mix, allowing for timing advance at high RPMs thus producing good power throughout the rev range even with the moderate boost increase.

The SSTT may be able to match or even beat the JBS2 power in the upper RPM's on 100 octane race gas, due to its higher boost levels.

The Procede system has the best of both worlds... great midrange torque due to higher boost levels, and great power at higher RPM's, since it controls timing in addition to boost and fuel delivery. At least in the v.1.47 iteration, I believe that JBS2 matches the Procede. Why? Because the prodigious midrange torque from the Procede's higher boost can hurt launches.

My guess is Procede 1.47 has really nice driveability due to massive torque at lower RPM's. But on WOT runs, you're running mostly in the higher RPM range, where the JBS2 system shines. That may be the reason why we aren't seeing much of a difference in 0-60 times and 1/4 mile runs.

Procede v.2 appears to be another beast altogether. Once all the bugs get worked out, I may give it a try. The things that worries me with Procede is the extra stress on the engine/drivetrain from the ungodly power, and the error codes/CELs/Limp modes. So for now I will just watch and see... especially since I'm quite happy with the Juicebox Stage 2

There are major misconceptions again here. Higher octane gives NO more power. None. Higher octane is only more resistant to detonation period. If your car is detecting knock on what ever boost you are running it will pull timing, thus reducing power. But if the SSTT is causing knock on their setup, then there are already MAJOR problems.

So, why run higher octane like race fuel? Well then you can crank up the boost higher without any knock at all, therefore no timing retard. The higher boost creates more power, not the higher octane.

[hotrod182]

Originally Posted by billspreston

Nice dude, I noticed my car got stronger the second day as well! Where you at in So Cal?

Yup, I documented this when I ran my car. Each time I tested it, my traps got higher and higher for the first week or so.

[Lee Rambler]

Originally Posted by Former_Boosted_IS

There are major misconceptions again here. Higher octane gives NO more power. None. Higher octane is only more resistant to detonation period. If your car is detecting knock on what ever boost you are running it will pull timing, thus reducing power. But if the SSTT is causing knock on their setup, then there are already MAJOR problems.

So, why run higher octane like race fuel? Well then you can crank up the boost higher without any knock at all, therefore no timing retard. The higher boost creates more power, not the higher octane.

interesting that all of the tuning options give more power with higher octane... since different maps aren't being used, you assume that they are all hitting timing retard? or, is it possible that the factory ecu adapts to the octane and none of them are actually hitting timing retard? I believe I already know the answer, just wanted you to think about that...

[sambonator]

Originally Posted by billspreston

Nice dude, I noticed my car got stronger the second day as well! Where you at in So Cal?

Aliso Viejo. HotRod reports his car got stronger every day for like a week!

[sambonator]

Originally Posted by Former_Boosted_IS

There are major misconceptions again here. Higher octane gives NO more power. None. Higher octane is only more resistant to detonation period. If your car is detecting knock on what ever boost you are running it will pull timing, thus reducing power. But if the SSTT is causing knock on their setup, then there are already MAJOR problems.

So, why run higher octane like race fuel? Well then you can crank up the boost higher without any knock at all, therefore no timing retard. The higher boost creates more power, not the higher octane.

I don't disagree with you at all, and I don't believe I implied that higher octane gas in and of itself gives more power. However, SSTT, JBS1/2, and Procede vendors/manufacturers all claim greater HP when run with race fuel.

I believe even stock 335i's will make slightly more power on race gas. Does that imply 91 octane gas is damaging to the 335i stock engine?

[Former_Boosted_IS]

Originally Posted by Lee Rambler

interesting that all of the tuning options give more power with higher octane... since different maps aren't being used, you assume that they are all hitting timing retard? or, is it possible that the factory ecu adapts to the octane and none of them are actually hitting timing retard? I believe I already know the answer, just wanted you to think about that...

I think your question is an interesting one my friend. My guess is the ecu is retarding timing on all the setups. Now with the PROcede, it has ignition control, so surely Shiv is retarding the timing based on boost values per the piggy, where the other setups are relying on the ecu to retard the timing. I guess you have to decide what you feel is safer.

[Former_Boosted_IS]

Originally Posted by sambonator

I don't disagree with you at all, and I don't believe I implied that higher octane gas in and of itself gives more power. However, SSTT, JBS1/2, and Procede vendors/manufacturers all claim greater HP when run with race fuel.

I believe even stock 335i's will make slightly more power on race gas. Does that imply 91 octane gas is damaging to the 335i stock engine?

I doubt you are getting any knock at all on 91 with a stock setup. BMW would not sell the car knowing that was standard in parts of the country.

[Lee Rambler]

Originally Posted by Former_Boosted_IS

I think your question is an interesting one my friend. My guess is the ecu is retarding timing on all the setups. Now with the PROcede, it has ignition control, so surely Shiv is retarding the timing based on boost values per the piggy, where the other setups are relying on the ecu to retard the timing. I guess you have to decide what you feel is safer.

how would shiv be doing this as there is only 1 map, not different ones for different octane... the stock ecu would still be where it is adjusted. my point isn't that procede is unsafe as well, but that the others are actually safe - the ecu isn't pulling timing because of knock, but rather advancing further when it sees the ability (higher octane)

[Driver72]

Originally Posted by Former_Boosted_IS

There are major misconceptions again here. Higher octane gives NO more power. None. Higher octane is only more resistant to detonation period. If your car is detecting knock on what ever boost you are running it will pull timing, thus reducing power. But if the SSTT is causing knock on their setup, then there are already MAJOR problems.

So, why run higher octane like race fuel? Well then you can crank up the boost higher without any knock at all, therefore no timing retard. The higher boost creates more power, not the higher octane.

Well to an extent you are correct, but with your statement below are also incorrect.

Originally Posted by Former_Boosted_IS

I doubt you are getting any knock at all on 91 with a stock setup. BMW would not sell the car knowing that was standard in parts of the country.

Based on what you stated above, race fuel "gives" you no more power it just allows the ECU to not retard timing. Which is true, but hence the arguement is therefore rightly made that higher octane gas gives you more power!
But then you state here that the stock ECU on 91 Octane is not retarding knock.
Contradictory.

The fact of the matter is, I've tested 91 Octane on a dyno with PROcede and Stcok cars and then also with 93+ Octane gas mix (mixed in a couple gallons 100 Octane race gas with 91 Octane).

Even on the stock car, within MINUTES of putting the 100 Octane race gas in and just letting the engine rev up to 5000 rpms a couple times, the stock car made nearly 4 rwhp more on the dyno....again within 10 minutes of doing the 91 Octane runs. With a bit more adaptation time, I'd bet I'd of seen a 6-7 rwhp increase with the higher octane mix (it was probably 94 Octane in reality).

So your theory is incorrect.
You can't say that race gas does not add hp, but rather just allows the ECU to not retard timing, but then say the stock ECU does not retard timing on 91 Octane when tests done by me have shown that adding race gas does in fact add power to our cars.
Sure, it's because the ECU is adjusting UP the timing for the higher octane gas. But to say that race gas does not add power, is basically incorrect because it is the catalyst that allows your engine to add more power, stock or otherwise. And with the PROcede (older v1.4) in my tests, there was a 11 rwhp and 6 rwtq gain between 91 and 93 Octane on the dyno. Again, that was within minutes of pouring in the 100 Octane gas (and just revving the engine on the dyno under load 2 or 3 times) but not even allowing the car to drive to fully adapt.
I would suspect a +15 rwhp and +10 rwtq gain between 91 and 93/94 Octane on PROcede v1.4x with full adaptability time.

[DrDomer]

I suspect under normal and optimal conditions the TT and JB1 or JB2 would all be ok. Under unusually harsh conditions (a moron girlfriend loads up with 87 octane, temps get ungodly hot, elevations change, etc) the lack of timing control designed into the ECU for the given boost targets chosen by the design of the TT or JB1 may lead to detonation (i say may, not will). The higher you choose to increase boost the more trouble you run into. If you want more power you need more boost, so JB2 has covered the issue by richening the fuel mixture to decrease chance of detonation (can be debated if this is good enough). Procede also controls ignition which is another level of protection, and allow's Shiv some added headroom for further boost. I'm not entirely sure of the difference between V1.47 and V2, but it appears to be more sophisticated in how it applies those principles to achieve a little more power, driveablity and protection. Please correct me if I'm wrong. Just trying to learn like everyone else.