FYI and FWIW: 2015 M3 - According to R&T

[tony20009]

The September 2013 issue of R&T was just shared with me. According to them them:

• The new m3/4 will have three turbos in a 3.0 liter engine making something on the order of 450 hp. It's believed too that the tri-turbo approach will reduce (eliminate?) turbo lag
• The M4 will appear before the M3 because both cars will share mechanicals and the sedan will need to have flared fenders to accommodate the wider track of the coupe

The article doesn't say much else of note, but there is a pic. I presume given the camo pics we've been getting here that it's a render.


Personally, I think BMW need to do something about the steering issues so often bemoaned in the F-cars before folks will flock to the M3/4 as they did in years gone by. $70K+ is too much to pay for lame steering IMO. Porsche have seemingly cracked the electronic steering nut, I don't know why BMW are dragging their feet on it.

[Pauleebe]

Seems like nothing new here. We all knew it would make the same or just a tad more power than the outgoing S65, and we realized it was tri-turboed Inline 6 3L

E92 M3 starts at 60K. BMW better not try and push that MSRP up by 10K, even for the M4. That's ludicrous.

[tony20009]

Originally Posted by dwalls90

Seems like nothing new here. We all knew it would make the same or just a tad more power than the outgoing S65, and we realized it was tri-turboed Inline 6 3L

E92 M3 starts at 60K. BMW better not try and push that MSRP up by 10K, even for the M4. That's ludicrous.

Well, perhaps not if one buys the car with no options. I don't really know how many folks actually do that. When I configured an M3 the way I'd buy one, it came to, for all intents an purposes, $70K. So that's where my number came from. I get your point; though I won't be surprised if they base price is something like $65K.

[Stillhart]

I have no source for this, but I swear I read somewhere that BMW said they were going back to mechanical steering for the new M3. That wasn't already confirmed?

[tony20009]

Originally Posted by Stillhart

I have no source for this, but I swear I read somewhere that BMW said they were going back to mechanical steering for the new M3. That wasn't already confirmed?

I had the same inkling, but neither could I find any source for my suspicion.

[F32]

This whole tri-turbo thing has to be a joke. I can't think of anything more ridiculous.

[Pinkoboe]

Originally Posted by F32

This whole tri-turbo thing has to be a joke. I can't think of anything more ridiculous.

Perhaps four turbos?

[ToyotaBMW]

Tri turbo? Talk about never owning a car out of warranty.

[turbolag]

No way M4 before M3.

M4 concept's being shown AUg 18 at Pebble Beach Contours, but M3 (not concept) is shown at Tokyo.

SOP will be either the same, or F80 first.

[Pauleebe]

Originally Posted by turbolag

No way M4 before M3.

M4 concept's being shown AUg 18 at Pebble Beach Contours, but M3 (not concept) is shown at Tokyo.

SOP will be either the same, or F80 first.

Disagree.

E90 M3 started production on Jan 2007, but E90 M3 started 6 months earlier in until June 2006.

Seeing as they're being unveiled around the same time, BMW could drop them together, but if I had to pick "which one is coming first", I'd say M4.

[drob23]

Originally Posted by F32

This whole tri-turbo thing has to be a joke. I can't think of anything more ridiculous.

All signs pointing towards 3rd turbo being of the electric variety...if you're skeptical (and you have plenty of reason to be), keep in mind that F1 will incorporate this tech

[F32]

Originally Posted by dwalls90

Disagree.

E90 M3 started production on Jan 2007, but E90 M3 started 6 months earlier in until June 2006.

No, you have it the other way around.

[ybbiz34]

I highly, highly doubt the engine will have three turbochargers.

And the bit about the M4 coming before the M3 (particularly the reasoning for the M4 arriving first) also makes no sense.

[JesseS]

Originally Posted by drob23

All signs pointing towards 3rd turbo being of the electric variety...if you're skeptical (and you have plenty of reason to be), keep in mind that F1 will incorporate this tech

The ebay scam electric turbos are obviously a joke and not worth mentioning.

That being said, there is a potential kernel of truth in there somewhere. In recent years brushless electric motor technology has made some substantial advancements. There are commercial brushless motors that can operate at 250k rpm for extended periods. The mechanical engineering is much easier (and thus cheaper) when there's effectively no friction; the limitations on such motors are still stress & heat, but heat from electrical current rather than friction. Brushless motors are also vastly more efficient than any other type of motor.

I'm not saying it's a simple or trivial engineering feat overall, otherwise there would be brushless electric turbos being actually used in OEM engines right now. There is still a great deal of efficiency lost when producing the juice to run the turbo for one thing, but I think it's a challenge with a viable solution for those car companies that have deep R&D pockets.

* It's also worth mentioning that the spinup time on a brushless motor is really fast while the torque is very, very low. That has obvious substantial benefits for turbochargers.

[kyleb350]

Originally Posted by drob23

All signs pointing towards 3rd turbo being of the electric variety...if you're skeptical (and you have plenty of reason to be), keep in mind that F1 will incorporate this tech

Those twin leaf blowers seem to do a good job though.

[drob23]

Originally Posted by JesseS

The ebay scam electric turbos are obviously a joke and not worth mentioning.

That being said, there is a potential kernel of truth in there somewhere. In recent years brushless electric motor technology has made some substantial advancements. There are commercial brushless motors that can operate at 250k rpm for extended periods. The mechanical engineering is much easier (and thus cheaper) when there's effectively no friction; the limitations on such motors are still stress & heat, but heat from electrical current rather than friction. Brushless motors are also vastly more efficient than any other type of motor.

I'm not saying it's a simple or trivial engineering feat overall, otherwise there would be brushless electric turbos being actually used in OEM engines right now. There is still a great deal of efficiency lost when producing the juice to run the turbo for one thing, but I think it's a challenge with a viable solution for those car companies that have deep R&D pockets.

* It's also worth mentioning that the spinup time on a brushless motor is really fast while the torque is very, very low. That has obvious substantial benefits for turbochargers.

Yea, the vid was just a joke

My understanding is the next wave of F1 engines will incorporate electronic turbos, which serve the dual purpose of eliminating lag and doing re-gen with exhaust energy. The regen seems to be the main focus, but this could be due to rules + regulations, although this is just from what I've read and in no way represents a sufficiently educated opinion How this trickles down to production engines will be interesting, but if anyone can do it, the ///M division can.

[gblansten]

It's hard to be against less turbo lag so long as the increased complexity doesn't leave the engine unreliable.

[minman26]

Originally Posted by dwalls90

E92 M3 starts at 60K. BMW better not try and push that MSRP up by 10K, even for the M4. That's ludicrous.

About as ludacris as a 991S starting at $99,000... inflation has arrived.

[mkoesel]

Originally Posted by F32

This whole tri-turbo thing has to be a joke. I can't think of anything more ridiculous.

Oh?

https://www.google.com/search?q=n57s

And no, I am not saying the S55 will have that exact setup, but clearly a tri-turbo engine has merit.

[mkoesel]

Originally Posted by ToyotaBMW

Tri turbo? Talk about never owning a car out of warranty.

If a a tri-turbo engine is less reliable than a twin turbo engine, then surely an I6 is also less reliable than an I4. Right?

[chmura]

I hope it has 2 turbos not 3.

I do not care if it has slight turbo lag in the very low low rpms. The s65 engine from the M3 is a dog below 3k rpm. So who cares if it has the slightest turbo lag? I doubt it will have anymore lag than the s65 below 3k rpm.

Does the 1M or GTR have any turbo lag? Never driven any of these cars.

[mkoesel]

Originally Posted by chmura

The s65 engine from the M3 is a dog below 3k rpm.

Is it? Mine responds instantly to throttle input irrespective of RPM. There is no lag. It seems to me that you may be confusing the concepts of power curve and input lag.

Does the 1M or GTR have any turbo lag? Never driven any of these cars.

Yes. All current turbocharged cars have turbo lag.