[OpenFlash]

Hi guys,
I had an hour free today to actually get in a car and drive. So naturally I add 4.5 gallons of E85 and fill the rest up with 91oct, making E30. Then I took the current OTS Stg1 map and made some adjustments to AFR, fuel scalar, ignition advance torque limits, etc,. Basically the start of a Stg1 E30 OTS map for minimally modifed cars running E30 based upon some data points I logged from years of Procede testing. Then I datalogged a very spirited (and continuous) 15 minute blast through the Mexican canyons. I took a small video at the start of the run. The rest of the run is captured in the datalog below

Car details:
2007 BMW 335i
6AT w/ 107,000 miles
Mods: DCI-only
Tune: OpenFlash Stg1 E30 beta map
IJEOS ROM
E30 Fuel

Full Datalog below. Many 2-3, 2-3-4 and 3-4 upshifts. You can recognize the gear by looking at roadspeed (last log at the bottom of each screenshot):



Zoomed in:


























So we are off to a good start. Most of the runs show very clean timing logs. Definitely within the allowance. Still much more testing to do. Both on the road and on the dyno. Still a couple weeks away from releasing any OTS E30 maps. But just wanted to share the data from tonights testing. I know tuners tend to keep their test results to themselves. But I think disclosing them is more fun Have a good night!

Cheers,
shiv

[Dmacc]

Video is private! But everything is looking pretty clean, keep up the good work!

[Ilma]

Interesting!

Without meth those IAT's climb up.....is that why timing takes a hit on some of those logs?

What torque limit changes did you make to which tables for these maps?

[Greatdane84]

Originally Posted by Ilma

Interesting!

Without meth those IAT's climb up.....is that why timing takes a hit on some of those logs?

What torque limit changes did you make to which tables for these maps?

Shouldn't the IAT climb just based on being in Mexico dry heat and only having DCI?

[Tzu]

So, the flexfuel sensor is no longer 100% recommended by vishnu?

[froop]

Originally Posted by Tzu

So, the flexfuel sensor is no longer 100% recommended by vishnu?

This has nothing to do with flexfuel. Besides, even the Procede has fixed E50 blend maps. The flexfuel mod is purely for those that wish to run whatever E85 mix they want and can't be bothered messing around with calculations and estimations. Also, flex fuel only works with a piggy and not any flash type of tune.

[Ilma]

Originally Posted by Greatdane84

Shouldn't the IAT climb just based on being in Mexico dry heat and only having DCI?

For sure.....especially that 7 hour drive from Danville to Mexico which must have really heatsoaked the engine

But seriously.....with stock intercooler and downpipes/exhaust it would be normal for IAT's to climb that much and even more so.

But my question was about what mechanism induces timing drops.

The reason I ask is because there is a main timing table which sets the ignition values and I am trying to understand where the tune goes for failsafe timing values when parameters fall out of range.

[n54door]

Awesome Shiv, the logs look good and that video shows the car is climbing through the gears FAST!

What kind of power output would you expect with this map and a DCI only car?

[135Pats]

Looks pretty good for a beta type map.

[135Pats]

Originally Posted by Ilma

For sure.....especially that 7 hour drive from Danville to Mexico which must have really heatsoaked the engine

But seriously.....with stock intercooler and downpipes/exhaust it would be normal for IAT's to climb that much and even more so.

But my question was about what mechanism induces timing drops.

The reason I ask is because there is a main timing table which sets the ignition values and I am trying to understand where the tune goes for failsafe timing values when parameters fall out of range.

Gotta think it's charge temp related timing pulls. Everything else looks pretty clean.

[Ilma]

Originally Posted by 135Pats

Gotta think it's charge temp related timing pulls. Everything else looks pretty clean.

Right.....so that is the question.

Is there a table which plots IAT's and adjusts the main timing table to drop timing values when a certain threshold temp is reached.

[E90Company]

Originally Posted by Ilma

Right.....so that is the question.

Is there a table which plots IAT's and adjusts the main timing table to drop timing values when a certain threshold temp is reached.

Yes, at least in COBB's ATR. IAT compensation tables. As IAT goes up, timing will be pulled out.

[onesuperboi]

That's some good testing. E85 seems magical at times.

[OpenFlash]

Originally Posted by Ilma

Right.....so that is the question.

Is there a table which plots IAT's and adjusts the main timing table to drop timing values when a certain threshold temp is reached.

There are two IAT ignition retard tables. One is factor based. The other is max degree based. For e85 use, we modify them to be more tolerant of higher IATs since the TMAP doesn't see the in-cylinder cooling benefits of ethanol. I suspect the reduction in timing that happens from time to time in 4th gear has more to do with transmission control/trans oil temp.

[JDrago1926]

The fact that this was tested on an 07 E90 6AT and my same ROM type makes me so happy! I already have 3 maps planned for when I buy the etune

[Ilma]

Originally Posted by shiv@vishnu

There are two IAT ignition retard tables. One is factor based. The other is max degree based. For e85 use, we modify them to be more tolerant of higher IATs since the TMAP doesn't see the in-cylinder cooling benefits of ethanol. I suspect the reduction in timing that happens from time to time in 4th gear has more to do with transmission control/trans oil temp.

Oh...that's an interesting theory. Kind of makes sense because it's not your typical knock related 3 degree timing drop......and then test and see spiking behaviour.

So does that mean that there is still yet another table hidden somewhere in the DME that intervenes on timing when the tranny gets out of sorts?

My car does this once in a while too and I have always wondered about it.

[OpenFlash]

Originally Posted by Ilma

Oh...that's an interesting theory. Kind of makes sense because it's not your typical knock related 3 degree timing drop......and then test and see spiking behaviour.

So does that mean that there is still yet another table hidden somewhere in the DME that intervenes on timing when the tranny gets out of sorts?

My car does this once in a while too and I have always wondered about it.

There is communication between the TCU and the DME at all times. The TCU sends torque reduction commands to the DME. The amount of torque reduction (if any) depends on many things including trans oil temp. When trans oil temp goes above a certain temp threshold, it would appear that the requested torque reduction during shifts is more prevalent. This also would explain why it's more common when you do a 2nd to 3rd to 4th run compared to just a 3rd to 4th run. The extra gear change at the beginning means a higher oil temp by the time you do the 3rd to 4th gear upshift.

This would also explain why you can reduce the frequency (or eliminate) this ignition retard by stacking tunes and making the DME (and TCU) see less calculated torque output since calculated torque output, like trans oil temp, must be one of the variables involved in the torque reduction equation. This is just my theory so nothing is proven yet. But it does make sense based upon what I've seen. I also remember noticing that 6AT cars with oil coolers are less likely to see this post-shift ignition retard. But more testing does need to be done for sure....

Shiv

[Ilma]

Originally Posted by shiv@vishnu

There is communication between the TCU and the DME at all times. The TCU sends torque reduction commands to the DME. The amount of torque reduction (if any) depends on many things including trans oil temp. When trans oil temp goes above a certain temp threshold, it would appear that the requested torque reduction during shifts is more prevalent. This also would explain why it's more common when you do a 2nd to 3rd to 4th run compared to just a 3rd to 4th run. The extra gear change at the beginning means a higher oil temp by the time you do the 3rd to 4th gear upshift.

This would also explain why you can reduce the frequency (or eliminate) this ignition retard by stacking tunes and making the DME (and TCU) see less calculated torque output since calculated torque output, like trans oil temp, must be one of the variables involved in the torque reduction equation. This is just my theory so nothing is proven yet. But it does make sense based upon what I've seen. I also remember noticing that 6AT cars with oil coolers are less likely to see this post-shift ignition retard. But more testing does need to be done for sure....

Shiv

Seems to fit the pattern I experience.

[enrita]

When can we see real dme logs with 6 cylinders timing correction included?

[Johnny Boost]

This looks great! Shiv, do you have any plans for a racing gas map as well?

[themyst]

Originally Posted by n54door

It's your motive my friend. It's too obvious, come on... You and Myst continue to cast aspersions. That is your agenda, and it's crystal clear.


Shiv, do you see a need to have a few variances for a e30 map, as in one for a DCI/Stock setup, and one for a FBO running e30? Or will the one E30 map be sufficient for all no matter the bolt-ons. What do you think?

Thanks again!!

no ill will intended. the issue im harping on isnt unique to Shivs OTS maps. it affects Cobb too. I just want to discuss possible solutions for the issue, with it being open source and all.

[OpenFlash]

Originally Posted by themyst

no ill will intended. the issue im harping on isnt unique to Shivs OTS maps. it affects Cobb too. I just want to discuss possible solutions for the issue, with it being open source and all.

The problem with your posts is that they are usually associated with another post, posted simultaneous on another forum, bragging about the aforementioned post and complaining about how "dumb" the people on this forum are. You're disingenuous and everyone here knows it. So please don't play games and waste everyone's time. I will start reporting your posts if you continue interfering with our threads. Same goes to e90company.