[mob17]

I haven't really seen many political threads so i thought i'd start one! Last time i started one i got banned and i didnt even say anything bad Going to tread carefully this time.

NSA & GCHQ

What are your thoughts about the NSA and GCHQ monitoring and recording online activities of anyone they want? Is it necessary due to the type of world we live in, or is it a sign of increasingly confident and controlling Governments? Are we expected to not have any privacy so our politicians, who have always done the best for us obviously, can protect us from the baddies?

Snowden

Has he betrayed the United States of America, or has he shown bravery in trying to bring the truth out for the American/world citizens?

Terror alert and closing of American Embassies in the Middle East

Is this proof that what the NSA & GCHQ are doing works and protects us, or is it a blatant lie thats timed perfectly to defend their actions?

[dxb335d]

I think we should bring back Pol PotQ

[zltm089]

Sorry off topic, but saw on the news that Cameron was gona block porn sites WTF, it is the parents responsibility to ensure that their kids behave! it's a big bad nasty world out there, hiding things from them won't help! Same for countries that block FB, Google etc...bunch of morons...

[zltm089]

Originally Posted by mob17

I haven't really seen many political threads so i thought i'd start one! Last time i started one i got banned and i didnt even say anything bad Going to tread carefully this time.

NSA & GCHQ

What are your thoughts about the NSA and GCHQ monitoring and recording online activities of anyone they want? Is it necessary due to the type of world we live in, or is it a sign of increasingly confident and controlling Governments? Are we expected to not have any privacy so our politicians, who have always done the best for us obviously, can protect us from the baddies?

Snowden

Has he betrayed the United States of America, or has he shown bravery in trying to bring the truth out for the American/world citizens?

Terror alert and closing of American Embassies in the Middle East

Is this proof that what the NSA & GCHQ are doing works and protects us, or is it a blatant lie thats timed perfectly to defend their actions?

I'm not bothered if they "monitor" everyone.... but if they start sending police to peoples houses for just watching porn or downloading a movie, then I think that's fcuked up!

[Billyray911]

Originally Posted by zltm089

I'm not bothered if they "monitor" everyone.... but if they start sending police to peoples houses for just watching porn or downloading a movie, then I think that's fcuked up!

I don't think that they're bothered about your dwarf porn fetish!

[peterg1965]

There is a legal and legislative framework that GCHQ and all the other security services adhere to and work within - RIPA being the main one in this context. I would think there are similar laws in other developed countries. These agencies do a phenomenal job in difficult circumstances to keep us all safe. 99% of what they do will never be publicly known, and law abiding citizens should sleep easy at night as a result.

It may have a hint of Big Brother about it but I for one am a huge advocate of what is being done behind closed doors and if necessary I would support greater legal powers to snoop where it is warranted. That is the small price we pay for living in a law abiding democracy.

Snowdon is a coward and a traitor and probably put many lives at risk.

[J Dub]

Has GCHQ not been doing this since the year dot anyway? same job, different types of media as technology progresses? As already said we would never know about most of what they do, what they stop and so on. The public only normally find out when something slips the net and something bad happens which is a very low percentage based upon theirs and many other agencies work.
For it or not, it happens, it needs to happen and will always happen.

Regarding Cameron and the 'porn ban' is it not him just pushing for more options on filters? as no matter what he does, there will always be ways around it. There are plenty of filter software packages out there already for parents many free, if he is that bloody worried, save the money used to go on about it and run a campaign to make parents aware how to filter and supply a software package free so they can. Would that not be more productive?
If adults want to look at porn, they will find porn, simple as that, anyone would think he has nothing better to do!

[ian_m]

well its always happened - hello menwith hill

the latest thing, closing embassys on Sundays, can't the idiots turn up on Tuesday or three weeks on Wednesday? - perhaps they are annual leave then. its a lot like the time Blair sent tanks to heathrow or the time all drinks/substances in bottles were banned immediately causing utter chaos.

its just a thing to keep us on our toes and lets us know the nanny state is there for us all caring and keeping us all safe.

real cynics/conspiracy theorists would say that some are let through or are arrested 'just in time' to really justify the state control and so called "democracy" we live in and their very existence/budget: Oklahoma bombing et al

child porn, could be banned tomorrow if required and so it f'cking should be.

time to put my tin foil hat on before they read my mind

[AlanQS]

A bit of both in answer to the OP's question.

Let's face it, in the absence of an external force (an attacking army), the only potential enemy of a state is it's general population and as we can see with the kind of legislation passed in the last twenty years, the more potential and actual control the state can have over it's population, the safer it feels and it's a huge bonus that instigating all these anti terrorism laws and precautions allows the state to slip in a lot of population control stuff as well.

It's a bit like walking down the slippery path. Each government which passed some of these really wide ranging acts wouldn't intend to use it against the general population but there's nothing to stop the next government or the one after that to use their powers more and more - and slip in the odd amplification to them.

It isn't something that happens overnight. Seldom can politicians push through what they want to do straight away. Bring the subject up, get the howls of protest from all corners and water it down hugely. Then, bit by bit, over the coming years, slowly remove the dilution whilst you get the populace used to the levels of restriction.

And if you get a serious bit of terrorism you can swing through all sorts of stuff whilst emotions are running high (e.g. The Patriot Act in the States. In normal times with no problems, no U.S. government could ever have got that through Congress.)

[quattrogmbh]

I do have to agree that with these lines of work its a case of "If you never hear about it, thats success"

I would like to think (maybe I'm just naive) that the right frameworks are in place to ensure privacy of those with "nothing to hide" is protected and that those with something to hide are the only ones who should be worried.

However.. The exponential increase in fast-tracked RIPA approvals in the last year is somewhat concerning.

There will always be conspiracy theorists and those who believe that the work of these organisations should be transparent, but then they wouldnt be successful would they.

[mowflow]

All I know is that there is a big red light flashing in a government building somewhere due to the number of threat keywords in this thread.

[Cyprio]

Originally Posted by peterg1965

There is a legal and legislative framework that GCHQ and all the other security services adhere to and work within - RIPA being the main one in this context. I would think there are similar laws in other developed countries. These agencies do a phenomenal job in difficult circumstances to keep us all safe. 99% of what they do will never be publicly known, and law abiding citizens should sleep easy at night as a result.

It may have a hint of Big Brother about it but I for one am a huge advocate of what is being done behind closed doors and if necessary I would support greater legal powers to snoop where it is warranted. That is the small price we pay for living in a law abiding democracy.

Snowdon is a coward and a traitor and probably put many lives at risk.

Good post.

The only thing I would add is, "if you've nothing to hide; then you've nothing to fear".

[xPETEZx]

Originally Posted by peterg1965

There is a legal and legislative framework that GCHQ and all the other security services adhere to and work within - RIPA being the main one in this context. I would think there are similar laws in other developed countries. These agencies do a phenomenal job in difficult circumstances to keep us all safe. 99% of what they do will never be publicly known, and law abiding citizens should sleep easy at night as a result.

It may have a hint of Big Brother about it but I for one am a huge advocate of what is being done behind closed doors and if necessary I would support greater legal powers to snoop where it is warranted. That is the small price we pay for living in a law abiding democracy.

Snowdon is a coward and a traitor and probably put many lives at risk.

Have to disagree.

Just because you have nothing to hide does not mean its ok for them that carte blanche suspect everyone and monitor everything.
Especially when there is no transparency on what exactly they are looking for and why?
So today these measures are brought in under the genuine belief that this will stop terror attacks. In 10 years time the same systems and laws are being used by councils to enforce parking. (Or something similar)

People fought hard to get the freedoms we enjoy today, I would not be so willing to give them up under the guise of "doing nothing wrong, so nothing to fear"

The last statement I also cannot agree with.
In my eyes Snowden is a hero. The public need to know these things are happening. It takes someone incredibly brave to publish this.

I fail to see how lives have been endangered by the information he has released.
It would be impossible to link a terror attack back to this release of information, and say that if he had not released this information the perpetrators would not have known they could be watched.

I will agree that these agencies do a phenomenal job of keeping us safe.

[F31-340i]

Originally Posted by xPETEZx

Have to disagree.

Just because you have nothing to hide does not mean its ok for them that carte blanche suspect everyone and monitor everything.
Especially when there is no transparency on what exactly they are looking for and why?
So today these measures are brought in under the genuine belief that this will stop terror attacks. In 10 years time the same systems and laws are being used by councils to enforce parking. (Or something similar)

People fought hard to get the freedoms we enjoy today, I would not be so willing to give them up under the guise of "doing nothing wrong, so nothing to fear"

The last statement I also cannot agree with.
In my eyes Snowden is a hero. The public need to know these things are happening. It takes someone incredibly brave to publish this.

I fail to see how lives have been endangered by the information he has released.
It would be impossible to link a terror attack back to this release of information, and say that if he had not released this information the perpetrators would not have known they could be watched.

I will agree that these agencies do a phenomenal job of keeping us safe.

i tend to agree with peterg, gchq is staffed by normal people working in the public/national interest.

i read that around 300 analysts work through the internet data that is captured. given there are 7 billion people in the world, these people are not collecting parking tickets.

when you are looking for needles in haystacks, being able to capture the internet is an incredible capability, i must admit while i assumed interception was possible and being done by our nsas, i have been impressed at the scale of the technical achievement that has been leaked.

that said, did i need to know? no frankly, though it is interesting, of course it is.

snowdon, total traitor. where is he now? russia? wtf? yep nation of freedoms....

if he had released top secret information on our nuclear weapons, would he be a hero? why is this different? it isn't.

[m@rk]

So every time the media report on GCHQ etc they refer to is at the Governments Listening Post so as others have said, why is this news to anybody. Suddenly somebody claims to have proof they were listening!!! Perhaps tomorrows headline will be that they have found proof that the sky is blue

As for Snowdon, yes he might be a traitor except I KNOW that some of the stuff he has come out with is 100% pure bullshit. I'm not saying everything he has said isn't true but I do know that some of it is which makes me question if he is not just making all this up for his own benefit.

[parapaul]

Originally Posted by ///ajd

i read that around 300 analysts work through the internet data that is captured. given there are 7 billion people in the world, these people are not collecting parking tickets.

when you are looking for needles in haystacks, being able to capture the internet is an incredible capability, i must admit while i assumed interception was possible and being done by our nsas, i have been impressed at the scale of the technical achievement that has been leaked.

GCHQ were actively recruiting when I graduated from university. I toyed with the idea of applying, then decided I didn't really want to be an analyst.

I've always known that they (and their counterparts around the world) have access to pretty much everything that is transmitted electronically - phone calls, text messages, emails, internet, everything. As someone else said above, that doesn't bother me in the slightest, I have nothing to hide.

I would far rather have them monitor EVERYTHING and hope they pick up vital intelligence that could avert a major disaster, than have them bound by red tape and risk them missing it.

As for Snowden, no, he shouldn't have done what he did, but I wouldn't class him as a traitor for it.